Would you trade our 2008 #1 for this?

[MN Die Hard]

A while back we talked about some players we might or might not be willing to trade our 2008 pick to acquire (Bynum, Josh Smith, Iggy, Okefer, etc). What about the idea of targeting guys we considered borderline in that discussion, and picking up two guys instead of one?

I'll preface this by saying I really dont have a good idea what the other teams would think about these offers....not even sure how Wolves fans will feel but lets find out.

So, our 2008 #1 pick and salary filler for....

1. Marvin Williams and Sheldon Willliams

Marv looks like he will develop into a solid 20 points-per game scorer and is doing it efficiently (50% FG). His 6.7 FTA would lead the entire Wolves team this year. His rebounds have increased every year as well, from 4.8 to 5.3 to 5.6.
I can

[scottyo50]

Rudy Gay and Kevin Lowry is the only one i would do.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I don't know, probably none just because we don't need depth as much as we need a major impact player. All those guys are secondary guys. Honestly we need a superstar, we are not close at all to competing. Adding two good players will make us a better team and maybe even a playoff team, but not close to a championship team. Its going to depend a lot on how these guys develop over the NCAA season and where our pick is and how much in addition to the pick it'd cost to get those players. Using filler such as Jaric or Walker sucks for them, using filler such as Craig Smith or Gomes sucks for us.

[Worm Guts]

Yeah, I'd rather have 1 really good player than 2 OK players. I'd seriously consider 3 and 5, but I probably take none of them.

[MilMinMan]

Here are answers for today, come June I might be singing a different tune:

1. Marvin Williams and Shelden Willliams

I really like this deal. Shelden's short, but his wingspan allows him to play center. Marvin is coming along very well as an offensive player. His jump-shooting would be welcome. However, I think Atlanta's too close to competing to go back to the draft for impact players. They might not like it.

2. Devin Harris and DeSagana Diop

Harris would be great generally. But, next to Foye it would be a very short starting backcourt. Diop is a short-term solution at center. We need a long-term one.

3. Rudy Gay and Kyle Lowry

I really like this deal too, but it does nothing to help our center spot, which I think is the most important need. Both players would be worth the #1 talent-wise to me.

4. Brendan Haywood and Nick Young

Nah. I don't think this is enough value, and I don't think the rest of what Washington has is interesting (except for Butler, who they'd be crazy to trade).

5. Andre Iguodala and Sam Dalembert

This would be theft from Philly. It's a lot of $$ to take on, but a starting quality center and potential all-star swingman are too good to pass up.

[MN Die Hard]

I don't know, probably none just because we don't need depth as much as we need a major impact player. All those guys are secondary guys. Honestly we need a superstar, we are not close at all to competing. Adding two good players will make us a better team and maybe even a playoff team, but not close to a championship team. Its going to depend a lot on how these guys develop over the NCAA season and where our pick is and how much in addition to the pick it'd cost to get those players. Using filler such as Jaric or Walker sucks for them, using filler such as Craig Smith or Gomes sucks for us.

Yep, that would be my biggest concern as well. I think some of these guys have the potential to be pretty big impact players though (Marv, Gay, maybe Iggy). But adding a scorer like Mayo or Beasley is tough to pass up.

[karch34]

1. Marvin Williams and Sheldon Willliams

Nope. Like Sheldon as 5 for us, but don't see an undersized PF like Marvin helping. Don't see him as a SF.

2. Devin Harris and DeSagana Diop
Nope. Slightly above average PG and while Diop would probably solve our C issues you don't trade a high pick for a center that is some what one dimensional (even if it's the dimension you need).

3. Rudy Gay and Kyle Lowry

Possibly as I like Gay and think Lowry would be nice depth, but only if we were dumping some serious salary.

4. Brendan Haywood and Nick Young

Nope. Too little talent for a high 1st.

5. Andre Iguodala and Sam Dalembert

Yes. AI2 is All Star caliber player. Foye, Iguodala, and Jefferson is a great big 3 for the future. Dalembert's contract isn't great, but he fits a need.

[deeney0]

Memphis would never do 3. The only other one I would do is 5, and I might do that without Dalembert. I also think that Deng and Okafor are decent possibilities.

5 actually works better without Dalembert. The only way I'd trade for Iggy is in a s&t in the offseason, which is after Theo expires, so where are the Wolves going to get salary to match both?

[shrink]

Gay's the Most Improve Player, in my opinion, but I wouldn't do the first four. Its nice to dream, but a look at the #1 picks are pretty spectacular talents. As Wormguts mentioned, its the superstars that make this league.

#5 is the most talented combination, but it the end I'd say "no." Dalembert's (finally) having a good season, but he's the third highest paid young big man, and he's not in the class of Yao and Amare. Iguodala turned down an extension offer from PHI before the season, so I think he is looking for max money, and somebody will give it to him. This means we'd be starting at $23- $25 mil for the two. Getting them probably requires Ratliff, and all the lux space we could use to re-sign our FA's, so this would also cost us Gomes, Craig Smith, and Telfair, and completely limit our financial flexibility.

Iguodala (and maybe Dalembert) are definitely players that can be quite productive, but their giant contract size detracts from their trade value. A #1 pick has lots of trade value, because the team not only a potential superstar, but he's locked into a tiny contract for 4 years, so you have the cap space to surround him with talent (and for us, the financial flexibility to give our other prospects time to develop).

If the deal was Ratliff, the MIA pick and Gomes, Craig Smith and Telfair .. still a nice rebuilding package .. then maybe. We couldn't afford the last three anyway. But personally I wouldn't trade the #1 unless Iggy still had a couple years left on his rookie deal.

[C.lupus]

Yeah, I'd rather have 1 really good player than 2 OK players. I'd seriously consider 3 and 5, but I probably take none of them.

I knew you were going to say that.

I'd do the Dallas deal for Miami's pick but not for our's.

As others have stated 3 and 5 are probably the best. I might do #3 if the fab freshmen are questionable at the end of the season, but, then again, if they are that questionable I don't think Memphis does it.

As shrink pointed out Iggy and Dally (sounds like a radio show) are too expensive.

[dunkonu21]

I dont really think we'd get fair value in any of these trades...but I'd seriously consider Iggy and Dally....I think drafting Jordan would be just as effective as getting those two...it'd be 10X cheaper and we could hope McCants or Telfair develop into starters with Foye...

[karch34]

Memphis would never do 3. The only other one I would do is 5, and I might do that without Dalembert. I also think that Deng and Okafor are decent possibilities.

5 actually works better without Dalembert. The only way I'd trade for Iggy is in a s&t in the offseason, which is after Theo expires, so where are the Wolves going to get salary to match both?

Good point.

Another thought I had was if it looks like Deng, Okafor, or Iggy aren't going to be extended should we try to trade for them before the deadline with players like McCants, Smith, etc? Then we'd have their bird rights, few teams (if any) would have the money to offer them a big contract, and we'd still have the expirings of Ratliff and others to offset that. We wouldn't necessarily be under the cap anymore, but with that and a draft pick we'd be pretty set as far as a young and talented nucleus. There's a risk they would sign elsewhere though.

[shrink]

Another thought I had was if it looks like Deng, Okafor, or Iggy aren't going to be extended should we try to trade for them before the deadline with players like McCants, Smith, etc? Then we'd have their bird rights, few teams (if any) would have the money to offer them a big contract, and we'd still have the expirings of Ratliff and others to offset that. We wouldn't necessarily be under the cap anymore, but with that and a draft pick we'd be pretty set as far as a young and talented nucleus. There's a risk they would sign elsewhere though.

This isn't a bad idea, if we want to jumpstart our rebuild. I would be particularly interested in Okafor, simply because good defensive bigs are so hard to find. He might be difficult though. Even though he turned down Charlotte's offer before the season, they have lots of cap room to pay him this summer, and the acquisition of Jason Richardson seems to indicate more of a desire to win now.

Also, financially, there's a big difference between dealing Craig Smith and McCants. McCants is already a guaranteed contract, and simply by keeping him we get two years to see what he can become. Craig Smith would be adding another guaranteed contract. Particularly if we use Ratliff in a deal, guaranteed contracts have potential lux considerations. I consider those guys (Ryan Gomes, Craig Smith, Sebastian Telfair, and Chris Richard .. and Gerald Green) in the bag labeled "guys that are easier for us to trade" than McCants, Foye, and Brewer, in the bag labeled "lottery pick prospects we want to see develop." I'd be a lot more comfortable dealing Theo if we took more players out of the first bag than the second.

[karch34]

I think the toughest part is if we want to make a gamble now on a trade for a young star, give them an extension, and then deal with limited cap room until Jaric, Walker, and Buckner come off the board.

Let's just use Iguodala as an example. Philly thinks he won't sign or in a S&T at the end of the year they'd take on some bad contract(s) as part of the deal which they don't want. Come January they offer Iguodala for McCants and Smith.

Smith would fit nicely with Evans and Dally upfront and McCants goes into the 2/3 mix with Carney, Young, and Green, so they'll target PG in the draft.

Iggy gives us a potential star to pair with Al and hopefully Foye. So we do the trade and sign him to an extension. I don't think there's many teams with the cap room to offer him better than what we could. We let Ratliff and some others expire (Green and Doleac for the sake of the argument)so we're not in the luxury next year, but we're not necessarily under the cap either (I'm not a capologist). We draft Jordan and have:

PG: Foye/ Telfair/Jaric
SG: Iggy/Brewer/Buckner
SF: Gomes/Iggy/Brewer
PF: Al/Gomes/Walker
C: Jordan/Richard/Madsen

Great young nucleus, but not under the cap until Walker, Buckner, and Jaric are gone.

Is it better to trade some lower priced contracts for a young star that we'll have to sign and be against the cap, even with relief from Ratliff. OR use Ratliff in a S&T at seasons end. OR wait until we're significantly under the cap in a few years to get a young FA star then?

I understand what you mean about guaranteed contracts vs. the bag of players in the "guys that are easier to trade", I'm just saying that I'm not sure if it's better in a deal with the latter.

[deeney0]

When do teams ever trade for a guy who's going to get a big pay day right before his rookie contract is up? I don't think it makes sense for any of the parties involved, and I can't think of an example of it happening. s&t seems much more likely to me, especially since we'll have Walker and Buckner to offer as expirings.

[karch34]

Good point. I think I was thinking Walker and Buckner were two more years, but I forgot the options that would essentially make them expirings in 08-09.

[T_Van]

The only one I would consider in that list is #5.