Ben Wallace

shrink · Post #1 » by **shrink** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:38 pm

Wait -- hear me out. It'll be interesting to see how many people don't even look at this thread.

I was talking with a CHI fan who's rational about Ben Wallace's value, he suggested a Ratliff + Jaric + BOS 1st for Ben Wallace + CHI 1st (Top 5 Protected). I think that's a fair offer, but it just clogs up our finances next year too much. Wallace's deal runs 3 more years, to this tune (15,500,000 14,500,000 14,000,000 ).

I made the following counter-offer, which he said he was OK with

Ben Wallace + JamesOn Curry + 2008 CHI pick (Top 5 Protected)

for

Walker + Jaric + 2009 BOS pick + $3 mil in cash

Financially, this is certainly better for us to defer the pay-out one year (when Juwon and Troy are off the books). For CHI, they save $2.5 compared to the Ratliff deal this year because Walker costs less, $2 mil of guaranteed salary for the CHI pick, they don't have to buy a player out ($0.7 mil) and we give $3 mil in cash, for a total of $8.2 mil. Walker is a $9 mil expiring next season -- he effectively costs $0.8 mil, and he'll have value as a tradable commodity.

CHI is able to get rid of Ben Wallace's scary contract, and open more minutes for Noah, and therefore Tyrus Thomas. The deal nets them like 13.2 PPG. Wallace is horribly overpaid, but certainly a defensive center. I haven't seen Ben Wallace play this year. We can hope he gets some of his game back, and if not, we're done with the contract a year sooner than Jaric. Moreover, turning the BOS 2009 into the 2008 CHI pick, even top 5 protected, is worth it.

I'd even add a little value to the deal if people tell me Ben can do anything any more.

Thoughts?

Post #2 » by **revprodeji** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:03 am

What would the protection be on the chi pick after this year? Also, can we get protection on the boston pick (like if boston dies and goes lotto)

It is an interesting idea. I like getting rid of jaric, and I like Ben Wallace as an influence for our young bigs. Depending on the protections I would do it.

Post #3 » by **Calinks** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:32 am

This is the first deal I have seen in a while that doesn't involve dumping Craigers. That alone gives this deal some bonus points.

Sephiroth · Post #4 » by **Sephiroth** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:47 am

I actually like the idea of bringing in a vet to help lead these pups*. :lol:

I wouldn't mind going through with the initial deal with Theo's expiring even. Ben Wallace is a defensive beast. He would surely end our search for a center. Getting CHI's '08 first (Thabeet/Hibbert) would allow us to have a center for the future as well.

Minus Jaric's contract (which the Wolves would have to hold on to until the 2010/2011 season) the Wolves would only be taking on a 10 mil contract from Ben Wallace (which ends a year before Jaric's).

C - Ben Wallace/Thabeet/Hibbert
PF - Al Jefferson/Craigers
SF - Brewer/Gomes
SG - Foye/McCants
PG - Rose/Telfair

The roster looks promising. Plus we'd have Miami's future picks (1st and 2nd). We owe a LAC pick.

Ben Wallace still has game. He's a wild dog on a leash right now. Let him loose.

Would CHI even consider this though? Ben Wallace for an expiring?

deeney0 · Post #5 » by **deeney0** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:45 am

Sure, but try selling it to a Chicago fan.

big3_8_19_21 · Post #6 » by **big3_8_19_21** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:51 am

I think it pretty much has to be Theo for it to even have a prayer...or add in...yes, you guessed it...Craig Smith. They could REALLY use Craig, actually, so I could see that happening with Smith in the mix with Walker/Jaric.

the_bruce · Post #7 » by **the_bruce** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:06 am

I'm torn...

This is like giving 2 firsts to CHI for their first this year. They will likely fall into the 10-20 range?

The boston pick doesnt hold much value imo, I'd just sub in Cookie for the pick because he could provide them some solid value and fill a huge need for them.

big3_8_19_21 · Post #8 » by **big3_8_19_21** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:15 am

If we got Ben Wallace, I bet we wouldn't have the worst record in the league...is that good or bad for us?

*edit* upon reviewing Wallace's season, yeah, we'd actually probably even be worse, but whatever, it shortens Jaric's contract and we get another 1st this year.

big3_8_19_21 · Post #9 » by **big3_8_19_21** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:55 am

The more I think about this, the more I love it...sure we have to eat some salary and Ben Wallace is no long Big Ben Wallace, but we shorten Jaric's contract and pick up another lotto pick this year, which is something a lot of us want.

This might be unrealistic, but MAYBE if Wallace was paired with a low post scorer like Jefferson, his 33% FG would increase and he would at least be functional and allow Jefferson to move back to PF where he belongs...or he'll continue to suck and we just eat his salary and gain a 1st, either way I'm all for it.

AQuintus · Post #10 » by **AQuintus** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:20 am

I have a question for someone who understands the CBA better then I do. Ben Wallace is 33 years old, so if we were to do this trade and Wallace were to play through the 2009 season and then retire, would the final year of his contract still count against our salary cap. Or would the salary portion of the contract be completely void because the player decided to end it early and not the team?

Krapinsky · Post #11 » by **Krapinsky** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:43 am

This is a TERRIBLE idea. Hear me out.

1. I saw Wallace play this year agaisnt the Lakers. I sat fourth row. Wallace was terrible. His offense is still terrible, but the surprising part is that his defense has become below average. He's always been undersized for a C, it's just now he doesn't hustle. It seems he got his big payday and his heart isn't in it anymore.

2. Even though Wallace sucks, this trade will still probably improve our team this year, which is something we don't want to do. We gain Chicago's pick, but we make our own pick worse in the process. Essentially we're trading down here- a top three pick for a top six pick and Chicago's pick, and really gaining no value.

3. Chicago will make the playoffs in the east. They moved Gordon to the bench, whcih has paid immediate dividends. They have Noah contributing now. And they may still add a PF through trade, Gasol has still been rumored.

4. Getting a late first round pick isn't that difficult. We shouldn't have to make our team payroll less flexible in the process.

5. Jaric has had his moment this year, and it's possible that he will become tradeable next year or the year after for an expiring contract.

casey · Post #12 » by **casey** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:58 am

deeney0 wrote:Sure, but try selling it to a Chicago fan.

shrink found one Chicago fan who said he'd do it, so that means the Bulls probably would.

big3_8_19_21 · Post #13 » by **big3_8_19_21** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:12 am

Actually, I just talked to a bunch of Chicago fans, and most of them were willing to do it.

Dr. Krapinsky raises some good points.

theGreatRC · Post #14 » by **theGreatRC** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:24 am

Nope, not liking this trade at all. Ben is on the decline, and his D is overrated right now, he would be as useful as Doleac, but Doleac has a better offensive game.

Magoose · Post #15 » by **Magoose** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:36 pm

I think it all depends on where chicago will end this regular season. If they finally make the playoffs (and I think they will) we'd just get another late 1st for taking up a former all-defensive player with a ridiculous contract even if it was compared to jarics contract.

So I wouldn't do it. Let's try to find another deal to add a mid-1st.

deeney0 · Post #16 » by **deeney0** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:17 pm

Maybe the Chicago fans say they would do it, but it just seems so awful for them to me... maybe they've reached the point that "The trade gets Wallace off my team? I'd do it." but that doesn't mean the Bulls would do the trade, and if Chicago fans are really feeling that way, the Wolves porbably shouldn't be trading for Ben Wallace.

Magoose · Post #17 » by **Magoose** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:37 pm

deeney0 wrote:Maybe the Chicago fans say they would do it, but it just seems so awful for them to me... maybe they've reached the point that "The trade gets Wallace off my team? I'd do it." but that doesn't mean the Bulls would do the trade, and if Chicago fans are really feeling that way, the Wolves porbably shouldn't be trading for Ben Wallace.

Good point, it might be that Chicago fans think that a Gasol deal won't happen until Pax has corrected a former mistake and got rid of wallace ugly contract...
and Memphis wouldn't love to take Wallace contract, either, that's for sure...

Post #18 » by **revprodeji** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:36 pm

Wallace's contact is a year shorter than Jaric. For that reason alone it is a good trade. Then you consider his impact on our young players and it could be great. Wallace works best next to a strong offensive player. He would be a great defender/rebounder next to Big Al.

Then we are looking at a chicago pick also? WOW. I would do this in a second. It is great for both teams.

Post #19 » by **Worm Guts** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:41 pm

revprodeji wrote:Wallace's contact is a year shorter than Jaric. For that reason alone it is a good trade. .

.

Except he makes 3 times more than Jaric and ruins any chance we had at having cap space in '09 (or at least severly cuts into it). Swapping Jaric's contract for Wallace's is definitely not a positive.

Post #20 » by **revprodeji** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:19 pm

Do you really think we will have enough cap space to do anything with in 2009? I personally doubt it. I see this deal as a way of shorting Jaric's contract, but also bringing in a pick that will likely be top-10 this year. (curious what the protection would be next year) I also think Ben Wallace could be an influence on Al and the other bigs and benefit this team.