Taking on bad contract/players to get future picks

[Krapinsky]

THIS POST IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF THE WAY I THINK WE SHOULD BE THINKING.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love, love, love what the Blazers have done in rebuildign there franchise. I'm not even talking about how good they are this year, which is probably a surprise even to them, rather I'm talking abou t hopw they've set themselves up for the future.

Essentially what they have done is (1) be lousy and (2) taken on bad contracts in the process which have allowed them to acquire assets. These assets could turn into contributing players for them, or could be used to simply trade for future assets if the picks/players aren't currently needed.

An example of this is the Frye trade. They probably could have traded away Randolph for something closer to an expiring, but instead they took Steve Francis' contract so they could also get Frye. Evidently they really don't need Frye, but he will become a valuable asset that they can use to later manipulate their roster, or perhaps one day he will be a contributor for them.

Another example of this is how they got Brandon Roy. They did this through Boston by giving up Telfair and less onerous contract in Ratliff, for a more onerous one in Lafrentz. Obviously this one paid off bigtime. Something tells me they're happily paying the Lafrentz contract while Roy shines.

This is what the Wolves should be doing. We're going to suck for the next two-three years anyway. Why not take on bad contracts in '08, '09 to gain future draft picks?

Here are three trades that do exactly this:

TRADE 1: MN/PHX

Doleac for M. Banks + ATL #1 in 2008

TRADE 2: MN/WAS

Buckner + Telfair for E. Thomas + Wizards #1 in 2008

TRADE 3: MN/LA

Ratliff for Kwame/Vujacic + rights to Marcus Gasol.

TRADE 1 Review: Banks has a terrible contract, but he player well here before. Part of me thinks he just doesn't belong in the open offense PHX runs, and here he might be an adequate long term PG. THink of it this way- insted of resigning Telfair for $1M less per year, we're paying banks $1M more and getting ATL's pick. Phx gets the cap space Sarver forever craves.

TRADE 2 Review: E. Thomas also has a horrible contract and may be dying, not sure. However, we need a body at C anyways for next year. We'd have to sign someone and the pickings are slim. After this season Thomas has two years left, whcih isn't terrible. He also could play his way back and actually become a good contract next year. For this gamble we get the Wizards #1 this year (or potentially a future #1). The wizards clear cap space whcih they despearately need to resign Jamison and Arenas.

TRADE 3 Review: I've propsed this trade in other places on here. We take on no extra salary, and we get M. Gasol, who I think could be our starting C next year. With the other trades, we won't have to cut anyone. The Lakers get Ratliff a Defensive presence they need who doesn't get booed by the home crowd or create turnovers in his sleep.

Where would these trades leave us?

For this year our roster would be:
Foye/Banks
McCants/Sasha/Green
Brewer/Gomes/Jaric
Jefferson/Smith/Walker/Madsen
Kwame/Richard/Thomas

Next year our roster would look like this:
Foye/Banks
McCants
Brewer/Jaric
Jefferson/Walker/Madsen
Thomas/Gasol

We would then have three first round picks: ours, atl, wiz
That would leave two spots for Richard/Gomes/Smith/Green and our second rounders. Since our salary would be approaching the lux at this point the second rounders would all be stashed in europe or traded for future picks or sold. Gomes is the only one I would really want back, but we could keep Richard as another back up 4, and a backup 5. Assuming the aforemention our roster would look something like this:

Our #1/Banks
Foye/McCants
Brewer/Jaric/Wiz #1
Jefferson/Gomes/Walker/Maddog
Thomas/Gasol/Richard/Atl #1

In 2009 we would potentially have three first rounders again. Ours, Bostons, and Miamis. This could create some roster problems. However, Walker would be gone. E. Thomas would be an expiring. We could trade some of the picks + Etan for an allstar caliber player, or we could buyout Madog or Thomas. By that season we would be on par with where the Blazers are this year, and the future would be very bright.

FEEDBACK: Do you agree or disagree on taking this route? If you agree, do you have other trade ideas, or comments or concerns about the trade ideas propsoed.

[Basti]

THIS POST IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF THE WAY I THINK WE SHOULD BE THINKING.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love, love, love what the Blazers have done in rebuildign there franchise. I'm not even talking about how good they are this year, which is probably a surprise even to them, rather I'm talking abou t hopw they've set themselves up for the future.

Essentially what they have done is (1) be lousy and (2) taken on bad contracts in the process which have allowed them to acquire assets. These assets could turn into contributing players for them, or could be used to simply trade for future assets if the picks/players aren't currently needed.

An example of this is the Frye trade. They probably could have traded away Randolph for something closer to an expiring, but instead they took Steve Francis' contract so they could also get Frye. Evidently they really don't need Frye, but he will become a valuable asset that they can use to later manipulate their roster, or perhaps one day he will be a contributor for them.

Another example of this is how they got Brandon Roy. They did this through Boston by giving up Telfair and less onerous contract in Ratliff, for a more onerous one in Lafrentz. Obviously this one paid off bigtime. Something tells me they're happily paying the Lafrentz contract while Roy shines.

This is what the Wolves should be doing. We're going to suck for the next two-three years anyway. Why not take on bad contracts in '08, '09 to gain future draft picks?

Here are three trades that do exactly this:

TRADE 1: MN/PHX

Doleac for M. Banks + ATL #1 in 2008

TRADE 2: MN/WAS

Buckner + Telfair for E. Thomas + Wizards #1 in 2008

TRADE 3: MN/LA

Ratliff for Kwame/Vujacic + rights to Marcus Gasol.

TRADE 1 Review: Banks has a terrible contract, but he player well here before. Part of me thinks he just doesn't belong in the open offense PHX runs, and here he might be an adequate long term PG. THink of it this way- insted of resigning Telfair for $1M less per year, we're paying banks $1M more and getting ATL's pick. Phx gets the cap space Sarver forever craves.

TRADE 2 Review: E. Thomas also has a horrible contract and may be dying, not sure. However, we need a body at C anyways for next year. We'd have to sign someone and the pickings are slim. After this season Thomas has two years left, whcih isn't terrible. He also could play his way back and actually become a good contract next year. For this gamble we get the Wizards #1 this year (or potentially a future #1). The wizards clear cap space whcih they despearately need to resign Jamison and Arenas.

TRADE 3 Review: I've propsed this trade in other places on here. We take on no extra salary, and we get M. Gasol, who I think could be our starting C next year. With the other trades, we won't have to cut anyone. The Lakers get Ratliff a Defensive presence they need who doesn't get booed by the home crowd or create turnovers in his sleep.

Where would these trades leave us?

For this year our roster would be:
Foye/Banks
McCants/Sasha/Green
Brewer/Gomes/Jaric
Jefferson/Smith/Walker/Madsen
Kwame/Richard/Thomas

Next year our roster would look like this:
Foye/Banks
McCants
Brewer/Jaric
Jefferson/Walker/Madsen
Thomas/Gasol

We would then have three first round picks: ours, atl, wiz
That would leave two spots for Richard/Gomes/Smith/Green and our second rounders. Since our salary would be approaching the lux at this point the second rounders would all be stashed in europe or traded for future picks or sold. Gomes is the only one I would really want back, but we could keep Richard as another back up 4, and a backup 5. Assuming the aforemention our roster would look something like this:

Our #1/Banks
Foye/McCants
Brewer/Jaric/Wiz #1
Jefferson/Gomes/Walker/Maddog
Thomas/Gasol/Richard/Atl #1

In 2009 we would potentially have three first rounders again. Ours, Bostons, and Miamis. This could create some roster problems. However, Walker would be gone. E. Thomas would be an expiring. We could trade some of the picks + Etan for an allstar caliber player, or we could buyout Madog or Thomas. By that season we would be on par with where the Blazers are this year, and the future would be very bright.

FEEDBACK: Do you agree or disagree on taking this route? If you agree, do you have other trade ideas, or comments or concerns about the trade ideas propsoed.

nice work out! I'd probably do all of these trades but I'm not sure if the lakers would do that.

[shrink]

Nice trades. I'd probably do them all. MIN can take on a little salary for next year, but it generally means we're giving up the chance to bring one of our young players back. Depending on the pick, that may be worthwhile. Remember 2008 picks will get a guaranteed salary as well (and a roster space), so when we deal expirings we might get double-charged.

We have more financial flexibility in 2009-10, when Walker and Buckner expire, and Juwon and Troy's buy-outs are off the books. For us, the best way to take on salary is to trade Walker or Buckner for a deal one year longer. It gets tough though for GM's to explain to fans why they are giving up a pick for some salary savings down the road though.

I like all three of your trades. A few comments:

1. Doleac for M. Banks + ATL #1 in 2008.

One thing that people don't comment about when they mention Sarver's earlier trade with SEA (Kurt Thomas + 2 late 1sts for SEA's TPE) is that while it saved him $16 mil (and the guaranteed salaries), it didn't get PHO under the lux this year. There's still time though, but Doleac for Banks only saves $840,000 .. taking the Suns to $70.0 mil.

Banks for our TPE would do it though, since that would save them $4 mil. We'd end at about $68.3 and they'd be at $66.8, so maybe it needs a bit more balancing so it doesn't put US over. Anyway, the benefit for PHO would be not having to pay some of Banks salary doubled because of lux penalties (let's say saving $6 mil), but they'd also get back their share of the lux pie for another $2 mil.

$8 mil, plus several years of future savings for the ATL pick (currently not lottery)? I think both sides would have to think hard.

Another option would be to use the TPE's to do a deal like Telfair for Banks. Telfair saves them money, he has some use, and he can be disposed of at the end of the season if they'd like.

[shrink]

TRADE 2: MN/WAS : Buckner + Telfair for E. Thomas + Wizards #1 in 2008

I'd do it. I think that's a nice talent-fit for us as well. There'd have to be some protections on the first for the Wiz to bite. If Arenas leaves, they may be jumpstarting a rebuild.


TRADE 3: MN/LA. Ratliff for Kwame/Vujacic + rights to Marcus Gasol.

I like this too. Hopefully Ratliff can get back on a court before the Trade Deadline, so win-now LAL would consider it. We'd have to pay up to buy out someone.

[4ho5ive]

I agree that this way of thinking is the best route to success. And I admire you for taking so much time to make the deals and come up with the right 'recipe' for success. However, Im sure many here DONT want Marcus Banks back in a Wolves uni, Rev for sure has stated he doesnt want it. Personally, I wouldnt mind if we got ATL's pick I would probably do it. Im pretty sure both teams would do this trade.

The 2nd deal I dont see as likely. I dont see enough incentive for Washington unless we throw some protections on the pick, even then, they may not bite. I still like Thomas and what he brings to the table, but im not sure the Wiz go through with it.

I love the idea of getting Marc Gasol. But I think the Lakers also need more incentive than just an exp. contract. I would do this deal without hesitation.

Also Im still in love with the Cookie/Frye swap.

[deeney0]

The Wolves have a couple directions they can go. If they want to keep more than one of Gomes, Cookie, and Bassy, they need to reduce salary for next year, not take on more of it. If they only want to bring back one or none of them, these would be moves to consider.

[prefuse73]

I really only think the first one is possible and the only one neccessary for that matter. Then do the Frye for smith swap. We pick Rose with our pick and DeVon Hardin with Atl's pick and we ready to really start building a contender.



Frye - Hardin
Jefferson - Richard
Brewer - Gomes
Foye - McCants
Rose - Jaric

[omeloon]

The Wolves have a couple directions they can go. If they want to keep more than one of Gomes, Cookie, and Bassy, they need to reduce salary for next year, not take on more of it. If they only want to bring back one or none of them, these would be moves to consider.

How sure are you the the Wolves won't go over the luxury tax to sign more of their young guys? If they have to pay an extra $2-3 mill for some potential, will they really care that much?? won't they still be paying less in salaries than they are this year??

[shrink]

How sure are you the the Wolves won't go over the luxury tax to sign more of their young guys? If they have to pay an extra $2-3 mill for some potential, will they really care that much?? won't they still be paying less in salaries than they are this year??

None of us know for certain what's going on in Glen Taylor's head, but I think its highly unlikely that he will go over the lux.

1. He's only gone over the lux when he got Cassell and Sprewell, because he wanted to do it for a contender. The wolves are far from being a contender, even after tonight.

2. Supposedly, he nixed a deal last year because he couldn't get the other team to take Eddie Griffin, which would have gotten the team under the lux.

3. I feel the decision not to extend Gerald Green demonstrates a commitment to avoiding the lux. I personally think he erred.

4. He bought out four contracts, and gave Al Jefferson his big salary. He's also got 3 players he drafted out of the last three lotteries that will need to get paid at some point, as well as probably four more first rounders in the next two years.

Finally, as you may or may not know, a $3 mil contract that puts MIN over the lux would cost more than $3 mil. He has to pay the $2, plus the matching $3 mil in lux penalty. If that put us over the lux, that means MIN would forfeit its share of the lux pool, probably for an addition $2 mil.

Overall, a player may be worth $3 mil, but cost $8.

[omeloon]

Does Gerrald Green have any value?? Or will no one take him on because they know he's going to be a free agent?? Can't see many teams turning down Gerrald Green + Madsen for a small ending contract.

[Krapinsky]

I don't think there's a team out there that would take Green + Madsen for an expiring.

I honestly think Madsen is a Wolf for life. When his contract is up I think he'll be working for the wolves in some other regard.

Green will be of no help to anyone this year and he's unrestricted next year, what would be the point of taking on Madsen contract for that?

[Worm Guts]

I don't know. I think we'll have enough young guys coming in if we draft well in the next 2 years. We already have 3 of our own former lottery picks, Al Jefferson, and up to 4 first round picks in '08 and '09. I'd rather clear cap space and fill the gaps with veteran free agents.
I've heard people say that no one wants to come to Minnesota, maybe that's true but a big part of Utah's rebuilding process was through free agency. If players will go to Utah, they'll go to Minnesota.

[C.lupus]

Yeah, players will come if they think the team has a good future and they will get playing time. All the more reason to be smart with the rebuild.

[Krapinsky]

Worm, re Utah, they got pretty lucky in free agency. Nobody thought Boozer would be that good. They also struck it big in the draft with a number of picks, Deron Williams, Paul Mislap, and Ronnie Brewer who looks like he's going to be really good.

[deeney0]

There's nothing lucky about that. Who cares what other people though, they figured they would be able to make a splash, and they were right.

[karch34]

I don't know. I think we'll have enough young guys coming in if we draft well in the next 2 years. We already have 3 of our own former lottery picks, Al Jefferson, and up to 4 first round picks in '08 and '09. I'd rather clear cap space and fill the gaps with veteran free agents.
I've heard people say that no one wants to come to Minnesota, maybe that's true but a big part of Utah's rebuilding process was through free agency. If players will go to Utah, they'll go to Minnesota.

That is a good point. We might just have 1 pick this year, but could have 3 the following year. I doubt we'd keep all the picks as I could see us either packaging to move up or swapping 1 for a pick in 2010 on. We have holes, but at the same time we need to keep the bad contracts low as Vujkavic could make it cost prohibitive to keep someone like Bassy, Gomes, or Smith.

It depends on what the trade would be, but I think Ratliff's expiring is going to be key in helping us keep some of our key guys at years end.

[Krapinsky]

Isn't Vujacic also an expiring, or am I wrong? I thought he was.

[casey]

The only problem with this idea is gettiing Taylor to spend the extra money. Thinking as a GM those deals make some sense, but I think it would be tough convincing Taylor to spend so much more money. He wouldn't spend money when we had a decent team, so I doubt he'd spend when we're winning 20 games a year.

[karch34]

Isn't Vujacic also an expiring, or am I wrong? I thought he was.

You're right. I think I was thinking Radmanovic. Or maybe Kryahpa since I was driving around Milwaukee listening to Chicago sports radio earlier this week.

[deeney0]

He wouldn't spend money when we had a decent team

shrink must be busy, I thought this would've been replied to by now.