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Why...
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:18 am
by TheFranchise21
Do sports writers often get the penalty for The Joe Smith Fiasco wrong?
5. Let Joe Smith leave: Double duh. Smith was never a special player, yet the Wolves lost four first-round draft picks because they signed him to an under-the-table deal. For a five-year stretch, the only player the Wolves took in the first round was Ebi.
I mean, get it right! It was only 3 picks.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/14297166.html
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:21 am
by theGreatRC
Star tribune reported it, nonetheless.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:27 am
by karch34
Big surprise the Tribune reported it. It's just to easy for them not to do a little research because they'll rarely get called out on it.
If you ever heard Asch last year botch the conditions of the Clippers and Celtics picks we owe and owed (and not just casual fan badly), not understanding basic restrictions on trade exceptions, and other things while on Barriero. Nobody in the general listening audit called in or took him to task.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:31 am
by Klomp
I liked number 10
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:31 am
by big3_8_19_21
I think Souhan made up "facts" for number 8. I don't recall there being a general consensus that Roy was better than Foye around the time of the draft...I don't think that's true at all (of the opinion at that time).
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:54 am
by 4ho5ive
Also we didnt trade Cassell for Marko and a 1st round pick, we traded Cassell and a 1st round pick for Marko, duh!
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:06 am
by Krapinsky
From what I remember the general consensus was that Roy was the best player in the draft, but had knee concerns. Everyone I heard said Roy was the better player, but Foye had some upside which made him intriguing. All the mock drafts I remember had Roy going 1-6 before Foye.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:27 pm
by shrink
Well, of course you guys know my contrarian opinion. I sent him this:
shrink wrote: I'm no fan of critics that have perfect 20-20 hindsight when they run critiques. I think its lazy writing. But worst of all, you're old enough to know the score at the time the GM decisions were made. My critique:
1. Trading Marbury for Ray Allen was not a GM mistake. Its hard to argue that KG hasn't played best when he has a strong PG with him, right? Marbury and Allen are both multiple All Stars, and there's no way of knowing Marbury was going to grow into a self-important punk .. or worse .. blame McHale and the Wolves for it.
2. Draft Josh Howard. You realize this was the twenty-sixth pick, right? You're complaining about not getting someone better with the 26th pick. Mr. Howard seems like the obvious pick now, but he didn't at the time. He was the last pick in the 2003 draft, McHale deserves some brickbats here, but remember .. every GM passed on the guy.
3. Trade for Iverson. I guess I don't hear a lot of people complaining about that. I'm amuse by your "wolves screw up the draft" line, but more on that later.
4. Fire Kevin McHale: Well, with articles like yours, I DO hear a lot of people complaining about that!
5. Let Joe Smith leave. First, the wolves lost three 1st round picks, and all in the 20's. Second, if you believe the wolves "typically screw up the draft" how can you also say that this was so "damaging?" It sounds kind of hypocritical, wanting it both ways. McHale fell on the sword at the time, but Taylor says that it was entirely his fault.
6. Ignoring KG: Yes. Anger your superstar. If KG lhad eft because the GM didn't keep him happy, where would that rank on your list?
7. Keep Billups. I'm actually proud of the franchise here. If you had gone into two sentences of detail, you'd have mentioned that Billups asked to be guaranteed the starting role, and with Terrell claiming he was going to return, Flip was honest with him and told him that couldn't be guaranteed. Yeah, he could have lied, but one thing this franchise has done is treat the players fairly (like Juwon's buy-out).
8. Keep Roy. Its too soon to tell. Roy got plenty of run, while we played Mike James for most of the season. Here's a surprising stat for you .. Foye's per-40 stats are almost identical to ROY Roy's.
9. Keep Cassell, or trade him for better value. Seriously. You remember what Cassell did to this team, and you're advocating keeping him as a legitimate option? This is disingenuous. Cassell had to go, and after his stunt, torpedoing a team many predicted would win a championship and turning it into a dysfunctional team that couldn't make the play-offs, how much do you think we had to pay to get someone to take him. In hindsight (which you've been using so rampantly), the correct move would have been a buy-out.
10. Make Cassell GM. Right. "Ok everyone, its time to learn how to not live up to your word and demand renegotiating in the middle of the season! Defense? We're not going to practice that. What I want to teach you is to freeze out players you don't like. Remember yesterday's work on feigning an injury if a young quick guy comes to town who'd embarrass your lack of defense. But first, we need more work on "me-first, locker room cancer." Everyone on the line, and speed dial your agent on the whistle. Ready?"
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Finally, one or two good moves, huh? There's been some bad ones, but there have been good ones too.
1. Garnett. McHale faced ridicule is drafting that high school kid turned out to be another first round flop in MIN's long history of lottery pick busts..
2. Marbury Trade. How much trade value does a cancerous young star get these days when he demands out and he's about to sign a big contract? McHale got All Star Terrell Brandon and a lottery pick!
3. All Star Drafts. I assume that you'd agree that his recent lottery picks (Brewer, Foye, and McCants with the injury) haven't really had a chance to make an All Star game. How about McHale's other lottery picks? Every one became an All Star. This guy has no Darko's.
4. Craig Smith.
5. Al Jefferson - better than we even hoped.
6. Wally Trade. McHale used a rare moment when Wally's value was at its highest to move his bloated contract and Olowokandi's to take a shot with Blount and Davis. The best part of the deal was the clever protections he put on the MIN 1st, insurance that if this failed, it was likely we'd only surrender a 2012 2nd.
7. Walker Trade. You don't dislike this trade do you? He removed Blount and Davis from the locker room, chopped a year off the deal, and nabbed the protected first rounder from a team who seems to be spiraling downward in talent and in finances?
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McHale isn't the best GM in basketball, but he isn't the worst either. I think you've written an unfair article based on armchair quarterbacking. While I'm sure it will be popular, its not journalism if you don't tell the whole story.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:54 pm
by C.lupus
you da man, shrink!
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:07 pm
by Klomp
shrink, on your number 2, Howard was the last pick in the first round, not in the whole draft.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:21 pm
by shrink
klomp44 wrote:shrink, on your number 2, Howard was the last pick in the first round, not in the whole draft.
Oops. I kind of felt that saying "every GM passed on him" was a little much too, since nobody was going to be using a lottery pick on him, but there was so much ground to cover in one email. We've had great discussion threads with double-digit pages on some of these individual points.
The point I was trying to make on Howard was that for an armchair quarterback, its easy to see now that Josh should have been picked earlier, but I don't think it was just McHale sleeping on the guy. He had to look like a question mark to a lot of GM's.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:36 pm
by Klomp
LOL, I was reading Draftnets report on Ebi from 2003, and came across this:
There will always be questions regarding his ability to handle much bigger and stronger players inside the paint. His slender build will create lopsided mismatches between himself and the usually bigger power forwards. Ebi did show off his post skills against the super huge 6-9, 275 star junior Al Jefferson this summer at the Nike Peach Jam. Ebi played the big man fairly well on the blocks, swatting Jefferson
Re: Why...
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:37 pm
by horaceworthy
TheFranchise21 wrote:Do sports writers often get the penalty for The Joe Smith Fiasco wrong?
5. Let Joe Smith leave: Double duh. Smith was never a special player, yet the Wolves lost four first-round draft picks because they signed him to an under-the-table deal. For a five-year stretch, the only player the Wolves took in the first round was Ebi.
I mean, get it right! It was only 3 picks.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/14297166.html
It's an easy mistake to make, since, due to the Bobby Jackson trade, it looks like we lost 4 first rounders.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:40 am
by TheFranchise21
I don't think so. If you've followed the Wolves over the years, you would remember that David Stern gave us two picks back. That's pretty big news if you ask me.
I remember hearing reports that Ebi willingly guarded LeBron at a certain camp when everyone else shied away from him.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:18 am
by casey
I find that the majority of sports writers are idiots. Some of the points he made in that article were valid, some invalid. But all seemed like he was just repeating stuff he has heard other people say. No originality, no actual thought put into it.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:51 am
by MN Die Hard
klomp44 wrote:shrink, on your number 2, Howard was the last pick in the first round, not in the whole draft.
Shrink and his lazy-ass journalism!
This is good stuff....you should be sure to post his reply if he sends you one.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:36 pm
by deeney0
casey wrote:I find that the majority of sports writers are idiots. Some of the points he made in that article were valid, some invalid. But all seemed like he was just repeating stuff he has heard other people say. No originality, no actual thought put into it.
There's a Stephen Litel joke hiding in their somewhere, but I'm too hung over to find it.