What is the rental bill for Gomes?

[pad300]

1) Okay, the Timberwolves are improving to the point where they might not have the most ping pong balls in the lottery this year. From the Management perspective this is a bad thing. Something should be done...

2) Ryan Gomes is an FA at the end of this season. He might or might not stick around. So is Gerald Green. So are Craig Smith, Chris Richards, Michael Doleac, Theo Ratliff, Telfair.

3) Some contenders (eg the Spurs, or Boston) might be looking for some depth.

4) The timberwolves have some capspace.

5) Assuming you get expiring contracts back, what's the bill for renting some of your expiring contracts.

Eg.
TO SA
Gomes ($770,610), Green ($1,440,960)
TO MIN
Elson (3,000,000)
+ Cash (to compensate for the pro-rated salary difference)
+ What? (More Cash? A Second Round Pick? 2 Second round picks? A First?)

[Devilzsidewalk]

1) Okay, the Timberwolves are improving to the point where they might not have the most ping pong balls in the lottery this year. From the Management perspective this is a bad thing. Something should be done...

2) Ryan Gomes is an FA at the end of this season. He might or might not stick around. So is Gerald Green. So are Craig Smith, Chris Richards, Michael Doleac, Theo Ratliff, Telfair.

3) Some contenders (eg the Spurs, or Boston) might be looking for some depth.

4) The timberwolves have some capspace.

5) Assuming you get expiring contracts back, what's the bill for renting some of your expiring contracts.

Eg.
TO SA
Gomes ($770,610), Green ($1,440,960)
TO MIN
Elson (3,000,000)
+ Cash (to compensate for the pro-rated salary difference)
+ What? (More Cash? A Second Round Pick? 2 Second round picks? A First?)

I don't like it, I want to keep Gomes and I want the Wolves to improve. and develop chemistry and a winning attitude. Plus as dEeney pointed out, even if we go .500 we'll still have a top 10 pick.

[horaceworthy]

Gomes is a restricted free agent, that the FO seems interested in keeping him. I think it'll take a lotto protected 1st for a team to get him, and I don't think that would net a team Gomes and Green. Despite Green's status as persona non grata, the price would probably be the same for him.

[prefuse73]

Gomes and Telfair are both making a case for sticking around next year. Even if they would resign in the offseason, why breakup the team and the developing chemistry for even expiring contracts. So I guess I am saying that it should be a hefty price tag. Get us a YOUNG C/PF (6'10 or above with a strong defensive game) or a middle 1st round pick and you might get some attention.

[deeney0]

I don't think Wolves won't be trading Gomes, but I'm certain they keep him if they don't get an offer a lot better than that.

[digitaldropoff]

I agree Prefuse-Telfair and Gomes have played like they want to be here....even if that isn't the case. Neither should get big paydays, but they should get significant raises...Gomes moreso than Telfair. To me, the ability to start or come off the bench is great enough, on top of being good team guys. They give this team a lot of depth...and I want to keep as much of this unit as we can so they can grow together.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Telfair runs a decent offense and he can attack, but his defense gives me pause

[4ho5ive]

This guy (Gomes) is at the top of the list for players I want us to bring back next year. Everyone here will tell you he is great for chemistry, he is a very hard worker, he doesnt need the spotlight to shine and he is great with the media. He is very young and I dont think a bigger exp is enough to get him away.

[shrink]

pad300, you and I are thinking along the same lines. Gomes is going to be productive for someone, and in my mind, our season doesn't start until next Fall. If we can get future considerations, I'm all ears.

Don't get me wrong though. I agree with everything 4ho5ive and others have said. Gomes is someone I'd want back, and I'd be sure he knew that very clearly before I dealt him. "We like you Ryan, and we see you as a big part of the Wolves future. You're a great young player, and we think you can help a lot of teams. We'd like to rent you out for the rest of the season, but we intend on bringing you back next season, with maybe a little more help."

We've received a number of offers that have been popular with the majority of the fanbases of other teams.

MIL likes Jaric + Gomes for Gadzuric + a lottery-protected first.

NO has a similar Jaric + Gomes for Bobby Jackson + a lottery-protected first (or Hilton Armstrong)


If I ran MIN, I would do either deal, even with Jaric's occasional brilliance. I would contact contending teams where Gomes might fit and maybe help put them over the top in the play-offs, and I probably wouldn't deal him for anything less than a lottery-protected 1st. San Antonio's pick is bound to be one of the least valuable 1sts, so they could probably make a similar offer by taking some salary next season. With Barry out at least three weeks, how about:

Barry (1yr) + lotto-protected 1st for Ryan Gomes (1 yr) + Greg Buckner (2 yr)

Buckner's a vet defender who'll never get much run as a swingman on a youth-oriented Wolves team. If SA didn't want to use the pick, they have the rights to a couple players that could be interesting. Their 2nd rounder, about 60th in the draft, has no appeal to me.

[TheYounGunz]

Please don't deal Ryan Gomes. If you "rent" out Ryan, he is not coming back.

I have read from some people that he prefers warmer weather or at least be closer to home if it's going to be cold.

[JBoog35]

I would take Ian Mahinmi and a 1st would be just fine by me from the spurs.

[Calinks]

As long as we have one of the worst three records we will be fine. I don't think McHale has a hard on for any one player at number 1 and we still have a great chance at getting the top pick as long was we have one of the worst three records. I also doubt we will play ourselves into a position any higher than the 3rd or 4th worst record.

[theGreatRC]

Telfair runs a decent offense and he can attack, but his defense gives me pause

I actually think Telfair's defense is improving. He is getting steals and is fast enough to harass his man and force TOs.

[pad300]

pad300, you and I are thinking along the same lines. Gomes is going to be productive for someone, and in my mind, our season doesn't start until next Fall. If we can get future considerations, I'm all ears.

Don't get me wrong though. I agree with everything 4ho5ive and others have said. Gomes is someone I'd want back, and I'd be sure he knew that very clearly before I dealt him. "We like you Ryan, and we see you as a big part of the Wolves future. You're a great young player, and we think you can help a lot of teams. We'd like to rent you out for the rest of the season, but we intend on bringing you back next season, with maybe a little more help."

We've received a number of offers that have been popular with the majority of the fanbases of other teams.

MIL likes Jaric + Gomes for Gadzuric + a lottery-protected first.

NO has a similar Jaric + Gomes for Bobby Jackson + a lottery-protected first (or Hilton Armstrong)


If I ran MIN, I would do either deal, even with Jaric's occasional brilliance. I would contact contending teams where Gomes might fit and maybe help put them over the top in the play-offs, and I probably wouldn't deal him for anything less than a lottery-protected 1st. San Antonio's pick is bound to be one of the least valuable 1sts, so they could probably make a similar offer by taking some salary next season. With Barry out at least three weeks, how about:

Barry (1yr) + lotto-protected 1st for Ryan Gomes (1 yr) + Greg Buckner (2 yr)

Buckner's a vet defender who'll never get much run as a swingman on a youth-oriented Wolves team. If SA didn't want to use the pick, they have the rights to a couple players that could be interesting. Their 2nd rounder, about 60th in the draft, has no appeal to me.

I'm pretty sure that you, and many others on this thread, are overating what you would get for Gomes. 1) He's a glue-guy tweener (SF/PF). He's not a player that will put you over the top, unlike say picking up Mike Miller or maybe Zach Randolph at the trade deadline. 2) He's a rental. You are VERY much gambling on getting him back, unless you're willing to significantly overpay. Remember, assuming it works out, he's going to be the "last minute addition" on a championship team, a young FA = he'll have his choice of destinations. Which will likely mean a warm weather big city... 3) He's a guy with zero playoff minutes. Nobody knows if he can hack the pressure. 4) Of the serious contenders (BOS, DET, SA, DAL, PHX, NO) who's got needs and a 1st to give up. DAL, PHX, and DET don't have a need for glue guy SF. NO maybe, they could use more depth, but their wings are their deepest spot. BOS also needs depth, but again, Gomes fits into their deepest roster spot, not their biggest need (PG). SA could use him, but are historically cheap... Besides, their 08 1st could be as low a 20 pick, which is the best pick they have had in a decade.

[shrink]

I guess I'd say that you can't argue ..

#1 "he's not that great" and

#2 "you'd have to "signifcantly overpay" to keep him.

.. at the same time. Pick one.

#3 I dont buy at all. "Poise" is the best thing about the guy, and he's started over 100 games in his very short career.

Finally, I'm just relaying to you trades for Gomes that have been popular on other threads. I think if you poled the majority of posters here, they don't want to risk trading Gomes at all. For any deal to fly, its going to require something significant. Personally, with MIN likely to have the 31 and 32 picks, I don't think a pick over 25 would even be enough for me, and I'm the biggest advocate of the deal. An SA 2nd, like #55, is almost valueless. I was trying to meet you halfway.

[pad300]

I guess I'd say that you can't argue ..

#1 "he's not that great" and

#2 "you'd have to "signifcantly overpay" to keep him.

.. at the same time. Pick one.

Sure I can. Read Part 2 "you are very much gambling on getting him back, unless you are willing to significantly overpay." This is what happens after he gets traded off to whomever, and goes deep in the playoffs. Consider 2 players. Both 3 year veterans. One a second round pick who's never sniffed the playoffs, but has a reputation for being a glue guy. He's started games for the worst team in the league, and has done OK. The other guy has done the above, and played for one of the best team in the league, and has has a deep playoff run. Which guy gets more money? Not to mention if it all works out and he gets a ring. A ring is worth a lot in contract negotiations. Look at the contracts dished out to Derek Fisher, Horry, Stephen Jackson.
The two players in the example have exactly the same game and capability. You'll pay more for the guy with playoff experience. And to be sure of keeping him as a UFA, you'd have to pay a premium above and beyond what the market would bear.

#3 I dont buy at all. "Poise" is the best thing about the guy, and he's started over 100 games in his very short career.

Finally, I'm just relaying to you trades for Gomes that have been popular on other threads. I think if you poled the majority of posters here, they don't want to risk trading Gomes at all. For any deal to fly, its going to require something significant. Personally, with MIN likely to have the 31 and 32 picks, I don't think a pick over 25 would even be enough for me, and I'm the biggest advocate of the deal. An SA 2nd, like #55, is almost valueless. I was trying to meet you halfway.

You might well be right, there may be no deal. But I don't see a team giving up a 1st round pick for a rental of Gomes.

[shrink]

You might well be right, there may be no deal. But I don't see a team giving up a 1st round pick for a rental of Gomes.

You might be right too, but to ask us to give up the restricted free agent rights to our second best player lately, and eat a million dollars for a pick or two in the 50's isn't offering much appeal.

[GopherIt!]

1) Okay, the Timberwolves are improving to the point where they might not have the most ping pong balls in the lottery this year. From the Management perspective this is a bad thing. Something should be done...

2) Ryan Gomes is an FA at the end of this season. He might or might not stick around. So is Gerald Green. So are Craig Smith, Chris Richards, Michael Doleac, Theo Ratliff, Telfair.

3) Some contenders (eg the Spurs, or Boston) might be looking for some depth.

4) The timberwolves have some capspace.

5) Assuming you get expiring contracts back, what's the bill for renting some of your expiring contracts.

Eg.
TO SA
Gomes ($770,610), Green ($1,440,960)
TO MIN
Elson (3,000,000)
+ Cash (to compensate for the pro-rated salary difference)
+ What? (More Cash? A Second Round Pick? 2 Second round picks? A First?)

I understand what you are thinking and don't necessarily disagree with you. But I am willing to take the chance with the ping pong balls and hang on to Gomes.

The Wolves have been on a nice run yes, but if you look closely at the schedule a lot of the teams we have been playing over this 8-9 game stretch use a smaller lineup that we match up pretty well with (PHX, CHI, GS, etc.) Now that we go back to playing more teams that feature even a serviceable center, we'll probably see fewer wins from the pups.
I still don't see us winning more than 18 games for the season.

The only team that will probably have fewer wins than that is Miami. But even if we trade Gomes we won't be as bad as they are. There's a reasonable chance Seattle will reduce Durants touches to avoid a mutiny from their veterans and to improve KD's shooting habits. If they do that they will win a few more games down the stretch. If Conley and Gay keep improving the Grizzlies will certainly win a few more games in the second half as well. Brand is close to being back with the Clippers who, even with out him, are still slightly better than us right now.

Those are about the only teams with any real chance of catching us in the loss column. In the end, if one team beats us out for ping pong balls for the price of slightly improved team play and improved confidence, I think that is well worth it.

[pad300]

-= original quote snipped =-



You might be right too, but to ask us to give up the restricted free agent rights to our second best player lately, and eat a million dollars for a pick or two in the 50's isn't offering much appeal.

You missed a line

+ Cash (to compensate for the pro-rated salary difference)

I don't expect a franchise to eat ~ $500,000 bill ($1,000,000 salary difference * 1/2 a season). Particularly if, as some rumours I heard said, the franchise is losing money on operations (if compensated by increasing franchise value). In particular, that is why the possible payments included an offer of "more cash", because it might comfort the owner considerably...

[shrink]

Sure I can. Read Part 2 "you are very much gambling on getting him back, unless you are willing to significantly overpay." This is what happens after he gets traded off to whomever, and goes deep in the playoffs.

Since we want him back, you're argueing that we shouldn't trade him.

And since we want him back, getting two late 2nd rounders and a little cash compensation for a guy that's been producing 15 PPG, 7 RPG and has been the second best guy on the team probably doesn't make much sense. Think that kind of move is going to spin the turnstyles more?

I'm one of the few that would consider trading Ryan Gomes, but it would take an offer that would help the Wolves in the future. If you're right that the trade would probably close the door on our ability to re-sign Gomes, or at least make him much more expensive, then 2 late second rounders isn't close to worth it.