RealGM

I was going to add this to Klomp's thread on offseason keepers, but I think it deserves it's own topic. There's an interesting pattern emerging on the contending teams. They all have frontcourt go-to guys, obviously (Nowitzki, Duncan, Stoudemire, KG.) What the best teams are now doing is assembling talent around these go-to guys that allow you to play fast or slow... Duncan has Oberto and Thomas, but Ime Ukoka plays the 4 for San Antonio against Golden State and Phoenix. KG starts next to Kendrick Perkins, but James Posey spends plenty of time next to KG against smaller teams. Luke Walton, Stephen Jackson... all around the league there's a premium on swing players who can play one of the power spots on occasion.

For the Wolves, we already have the go-to piece in the frontcourt for the future in Jefferson. I think everyone here has been rightly belaboring our lack of size, but we shouldn't miss the fact that a Gomes/Jefferson combo at the 4/5 is similar to other successful combinations throughout the league - Duncan/Udoka, Stoudemire/Diaw, etc. This shift in style is why players like Roy Hibbert are less important than they used to be... the league is getting smaller, with a greater emphasis on quickness than ever before.

Gomes should be the #1 offseason priority. I say overpay him, if that's what it takes. He's not going to make this bad team good (Jefferson, Foye and our lotto pick need to do that) but he could be the difference between a team that can only play one style and a team that can match up big and small.

As you noted at the beginning, all those teams have big men that the Wolves lack: Oberto, Perkins, Shaq... I don't know why you dismiss this later in your analysis. Gomes can certainly be effective at 4 in stretches against other smaller 4's, but to go into next year without adding a 7 footer or at least near 7 footer who can play 20+ minutes a game is a mistake.

^Not what I was going for, Deeny... I started thinking about this because of Gunny's suggestion of bringing in Diop as a free agent. I don't mean to dismiss the need for a big guy at all, just trying to say that letting Gomes go would be a mistake, that he's a lot more important than Telfair, Snyder or even Smith. Because the style of the league has changed, Gomes is our most valuable free agent.

I know what you're going for, but all of the best teams in the West improve this year by getting bigger (Shaq, Kurt Thomas, Gasol). The team that got smaller, Dallas, isn't doing so hot. I think versatility is the key - I certainly wouldn't jump on adding Diop at the expense of keeping Gomes, but if the draft pick is another guard, other avenues of adding size have to be explored (eg trading McCants or Foye).

I wouldn't overpay for Gomes, or for anybody. If we were one player away from being a contender then sure, it makes sense to overpay. But the Wolves are so far away from that, why overpay someone now who might make us win three more games next year? I think roster flexibility is the most important think during the rebuilding phase. I wouldn't give Gomes a penny over 16 million/4 years.

Dr.Krapinsky wrote:I wouldn't overpay for Gomes, or for anybody. If we were one player away from being a contender then sure, it makes sense to overpay. But the Wolves are so far away from that, why overpay someone now who might make us win three more games next year? I think roster flexibility is the most important think during the rebuilding phase. I wouldn't give Gomes a penny over 16 million/4 years.

Thats what I think he'll get, very similar to Walton

You guys think Gomes is poor man's David West or not even?

Walton got a little more than that. Most Lakers fans would agree he's overpaid by a couple million.

Walton's deal is pretty ugly from a bang for buck perspective.

West is more athletic than Gomes and has a couple inches on him to boot. There's no really good comparison for Gomes, but I'll throw one out there: Ron Artest at the same point in his career, without the crazy. Artest never really became an elite defender until he got to Indiana, if Gomes can make the same kind of transition... wow. Gomes isn't as quick or athletic though.

4m @ 3yrs is the most I'd extend to gomes, and that's dependant on the player we draft. I think he's a good player, but MN shouldn't commit to much long term money towards him. I think a team may offer a 4 year deal to him based on his production and if so MN should not match imo.

bruceallen61 wrote:4m @ 3yrs is the most I'd extend to gomes, and that's dependant on the player we draft. I think he's a good player, but MN shouldn't commit to much long term money towards him. I think a team may offer a 4 year deal to him based on his production and if so MN should not match imo.

well, then you'll see him in Boston jersey playing for the full MLE.

If someone offers Gomes the full MLE, they can have him.

deeney0 wrote:If someone offers Gomes the full MLE, they can have him.

well, i think Mchale will have him

bruceallen61 wrote:4m @ 3yrs is the most I'd extend to gomes, and that's dependant on the player we draft. I think he's a good player, but MN shouldn't commit to much long term money towards him. I think a team may offer a 4 year deal to him based on his production and if so MN should not match imo.

That's about where I am financially. If someone offers the MLE or a 4-year deal, I wouldn't match. Perhaps we could work a sign-and-trade, and save a little value.

That's not to say I don't like Gomes or want him back. Right now, he's the second best player on the floor for us, providing hustle and poise .. two things we can really use. However, as our lottery talent develops (we hope), the role for Gomes will decrease. If he was starting in two years, then we've probably failed badly in our player development. Right now he's a valuable starter, and I'd love to have a guy like him on our bench, but if another team wanted to offer him a four year deal, I'd be too gunshy right now to match.

a 4th year is no biggie IMO. He will still have trade value into the fourth year as long as that fourth year isn't > $4 mil. he's more proven than other young guys who have received 4 year deals that have turned ugly really fast, i.e. Marcus Banks.

Look at it from Gomes perspective. If I'm Gomes I ask for five and settle for four. He's not going to take a three year deal as a back up. when that deal expires he won't have the same opportunity to cash in as he does now. If he can't get four or more, he's much better off taking a one year deal with someone else where he has the opportunity to play 30 minutes a game and increase his value. Maybe Phili? Maybe Phoenix as a Hill replacement?

I think it is definitely in our best interest to resign gomes.

He is a glue guy on the team, and he has a great impact on the team in terms of positivity, and personality.

I am definitely going to be disappointed if the wolves do not resign Gomes. I think he is worth PROBABLY a little bit more than 4mill/season, but if hes willing to sign at a multiyear deal at 4mill, I think we lock him up for as long of a contract as we can get him at.

The issue I have with Gomes, is not with Gomes, but with our front office. I don't know where they stand with the prospects we have, or who they really are interested in, inside of this years draft.

I want to keep Gomes as the kryptonite to small ball because we school any teams that try to go small with us with Gomes/Jefferson up front. All in all he should get 20-25 mpg over the course of a season and I'd like to pay him around 4mil a year ideally.

In order of priority, I go Gomes > Smith > Telfair

shrink wrote: That's not to say I don't like Gomes or want him back. Right now, he's the second best player on the floor for us, providing hustle and poise .. two things we can really use. However, as our lottery talent develops (we hope), the role for Gomes will decrease. If he was starting in two years, then we've probably failed badly in our player development. Right now he's a valuable starter, and I'd love to have a guy like him on our bench, but if another team wanted to offer him a four year deal, I'd be too gunshy right now to match.

As the league-wide payroll inches up and every team, it seems, has luxury tax concerns, fewer players have gotten the full midlevel. Even seasoned veteran role players like Bruce Bowen have gotten less. You never know when someone is going to step in and make an unreasonable offer, but I think we should be able to retain Gomes for something like 4 yrs., $18 mil.

TrentTuckerForever wrote:I was going to add this to Klomp's thread on offseason keepers, but I think it deserves it's own topic. There's an interesting pattern emerging on the contending teams. They all have frontcourt go-to guys, obviously (Nowitzki, Duncan, Stoudemire, KG.) What the best teams are now doing is assembling talent around these go-to guys that allow you to play fast or slow... Duncan has Oberto and Thomas, but Ime Ukoka plays the 4 for San Antonio against Golden State and Phoenix. KG starts next to Kendrick Perkins, but James Posey spends plenty of time next to KG against smaller teams. Luke Walton, Stephen Jackson... all around the league there's a premium on swing players who can play one of the power spots on occasion.

For the Wolves, we already have the go-to piece in the frontcourt for the future in Jefferson. I think everyone here has been rightly belaboring our lack of size, but we shouldn't miss the fact that a Gomes/Jefferson combo at the 4/5 is similar to other successful combinations throughout the league - Duncan/Udoka, Stoudemire/Diaw, etc. This shift in style is why players like Roy Hibbert are less important than they used to be... the league is getting smaller, with a greater emphasis on quickness than ever before.

Gomes should be the #1 offseason priority. I say overpay him, if that's what it takes. He's not going to make this bad team good (Jefferson, Foye and our lotto pick need to do that) but he could be the difference between a team that can only play one style and a team that can match up big and small.

I don't think that Gomes really fits in with the Udoka/SJax/Posey set. All the players you described are plus defenders and better athletes than Gomes. I actually think that Snyder is closer to the type of player you're describing than Gomes is. Good athlete, good defender, runs the floor, hits the boards.

^I see your point. Maybe Walton or Boris Diaw are better comparisons? (although Gomes is more physical than those guys...) In any case, I think Devilz is right that Gomes main value is that he allows the Wolves to play small.