Would You Trade the 2nd pick (Beasley) for Rudy Gay?

DerrickRose23 · Post #1 » by **DerrickRose23** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:38 am

Would You Trade the 2nd pick (Beasley) for Rudy Gay?

There is talk that having Foye at Guard means Rose shouldn't be picked.. and having Jefferson makes it difficult to have Beasley.. What the team needs is a big sg/sf that can score, opposite to the defensive juggernaut Brewer.

Your thoughts?

shrink · Post #2 » by **shrink** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:42 am

DerrickRose23 wrote:Would You Trade the 2nd pick (Beasley) for Rudy Gay?

There is talk that having Foye at Guard means Rose shouldn't be picked.. and having Jefferson makes it difficult to have Beasley.. What the team needs is a big sg/sf that can score, opposite to the defensive juggernaut Brewer.

Your thoughts?

My thoughts are that I haven't heard that talk -- at least not among the wolves crowd. Foye is a combo guard, and I think we'd be quite happy with a backcourt with Randy and Derrick Rose or even Mayo, who can both help pass the ball around, or create for themselves.

PeeDee · Post #3 » by **PeeDee** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:47 am

Never thought I'd see the word 'juggernaut' to describe Brewer.

Krapinsky · Post #4 » by **Krapinsky** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:57 am

PeeDee wrote:Never thought I'd see the word 'juggernaut' to describe Brewer.

From wordnet-

juggernaut

noun
1. a massive inexorable force that seems to crush everything in its way

If that's not Corey Brewer, I'm not sure what is.

PeeDee · Post #5 » by **PeeDee** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:00 am

Lol. My bad.

deeney0 · Post #6 » by **deeney0** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:00 am

No, I wouldn't.

A quick elaboration: The last time a team won an NBA championship without a top 3 pick on their team? 1983. Since then, either Magic, Bird, Thomas, Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan. Shaq, or Billups (the lone non-HOF on the list, but he was #3 in 1997) has been on the winning team. This is a league of stars. On a championship team Gay, like Jefferson, is a Pippen. A Dumars. A McHale. A Kobe. A Parker. A Wade. Wolves need to find their stud with that pick.

Tekkenlaw · Post #7 » by **Tekkenlaw** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:55 am

deeney0 wrote:No, I wouldn't.

A quick elaboration: The last time a team won an NBA championship without a top 3 pick on their team? 1983. Since then, either Magic, Bird, Thomas, Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan. Shaq, or Billups (the lone non-HOF on the list, but he was #3 in 1997) has been on the winning team. This is a league of stars. On a championship team Gay, like Jefferson, is a Pippen. A Dumars. A McHale. A Kobe. A Parker. A Wade. Wolves need to find their stud with that pick.

I would rather have a 21 year old that is already putting up 20ppg over Michael Beasley any day of the week. Especially since Rudy Gay would be a much better fit for this team.

A top 3 pick doesn't automatically yield a franchise superstar. I would put my money on Al Jefferson reaching the level of the players you mentioned over Beasley. The top 3 pick trend is pure coincidence, if Celtics or Lakers win it all this year the trend ends.

I don't see how you can categorize Rudy Gay and Al Jefferson as career second or third options based on the fact that they weren't drafted in the top 3. I don't see Beasley becoming a better player than either of them.

Post #8 » by **Klomp** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:11 am

deeney0 wrote:No, I wouldn't.

A quick elaboration: The last time a team won an NBA championship without a top 3 pick on their team? 1983. Since then, either Magic, Bird, Thomas, Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan. Shaq, or Billups (the lone non-HOF on the list, but he was #3 in 1997) has been on the winning team. This is a league of stars. On a championship team Gay, like Jefferson, is a Pippen. A Dumars. A McHale. A Kobe. A Parker. A Wade. Wolves need to find their stud with that pick.

A player can develop into a star though. People used to say Iguodala was only a second-option too.

deeney0 · Post #9 » by **deeney0** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:12 am

No, a top 3 pick doesn't automatically yield a franchise superstar, but trading it for Gay automatically doesn't yield a franchise superstar.

What does the trend say? Other than Detroit, superstars win championships. Not just superstars, the cream of the crop superstars. The few best players in the league. The players that were so good coming into the league that they warrented high draft picks. Gay is nice as a #2 guy. Jefferson is nice as the #2 guy. Together, they might yield a nice playoff run in a few years. But for a championship, the odds are with Beasley. or, more ideally, Rose or Mayo.

Last year, how many teams had 6 guys who would've been the third best player on Cleavland last year? And yet LeBron almost single handedly carried the Cavs to the finals. It sucks, but this is a league of superstars.

deeney0 · Post #10 » by **deeney0** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:12 am

Iggy is only a second option. So is Gay, so is Al, and several other stars.

Post #11 » by **Klomp** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:17 am

deeney0 wrote:Iggy is only a second option. So is Gay, so is Al, and several other stars.

So who are their number one options then?

deeney0 · Post #12 » by **deeney0** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:20 am

They lack one, as do the Wolves. Elite number one options are few and far between in this league. There are two guys at the top of this draft who could be one (Beasley and Mayo), along with a guy who could be a top 5 PG in this league. COULD BE. No guarantee. But you don't trade that pick away, even though it's just a CHANCE those guys could turn out, for a guy like Rudy Gay.

Post #13 » by **Klomp** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:27 am

I guess we can agree to disagree.

Tekkenlaw · Post #14 » by **Tekkenlaw** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:49 am

I just don't think you can pigeonhole Rudy Gay and Al Jefferson as career second options when they are 21 and 23 years old respectively and both putting up 20ppg already.

I do see your point though, it's just a matter of risk/reward. Beasley could be anywhere from a bust to a hall of famer, while Gay is guaranteed to be a good player but Beasley could end up being better. It's just a matter of who you think has the higher potential.

shrink · Post #15 » by **shrink** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:13 am

deeney0 wrote: A quick elaboration: The last time a team won an NBA championship without a top 3 pick on their team? 1983.

25 years straight is amazing to me. Thanks for posting that fact, deeney0.

Krapinsky · Post #16 » by **Krapinsky** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:22 am

deeney0 wrote:No, I wouldn't.

A quick elaboration: The last time a team won an NBA championship without a top 3 pick on their team? 1983. Since then, either Magic, Bird, Thomas, Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan. Shaq, or Billups (the lone non-HOF on the list, but he was #3 in 1997) has been on the winning team. This is a league of stars. On a championship team Gay, like Jefferson, is a Pippen. A Dumars. A McHale. A Kobe. A Parker. A Wade. Wolves need to find their stud with that pick.

The top 3 pick distinction doesn't really add up. If you did the Gay draft over again wouldn't Gay be top 3? Potentially number 1 overall?

I personally gush about Gay's talent. I think by next year he'll be known as an elite scorer in the league. When he was drafted he was considered "raw" remember. He's come along way. He's also a two-way player, and has the length to be an elite defender. He's still too young to be a team leader/#1 option. Especially considering, I don't think there ever has been one at his age.

To put it in perpective- consider Bryant's stat line at the same age:

5.3rbs 3.8ass 19.9pp .465%fg

and Gay's @ 6 days older:

6.1rbs 2.0ass 20.1pp .462%fg

Further, Gay mesh's better with our lineup than Beasley or Rose. I personally would trade either one of them for Gay.

Foye/Telfair
Brewer/McCants
Gay/Gomes
Jefferson/Smith
Diop/whoever

andyhop · Post #17 » by **andyhop** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:07 am

The problem I have with Gay is according to 82Games he produces more at PF than SF and his defence isn't very good.

Basically he is an NBA proven version of Beasley minus the rebounding ability of Beasley.I'd rather take the risk that Beasley translates his game from college to the NBA ,than trade him for Gay.

Krapinsky · Post #18 » by **Krapinsky** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:41 am

andyhop wrote:The problem I have with Gay is according to 82Games he produces more at PF than SF and his defence isn't very good.

Basically he is an NBA proven version of Beasley minus the rebounding ability of Beasley.I'd rather take the risk that Beasley translates his game from college to the NBA ,than trade him for Gay.

That stat is wrong and misleading. You have to realize Gay didn't play PF until after the Gasol trade when he became the go to scorer. Naturally, his numbers were going to improve when he became the #1 option and they did.

You're right that his defense isn't very good, but the same could be said for any player his age who is relied upon offensively.

mchammarlz · Post #19 » by **mchammarlz** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:45 am

I would trade Beasley for Gay but not Rose or Mayo.

andyhop · Post #20 » by **andyhop** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:23 am

Dr.Krapinsky wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

That stat is wrong and misleading. You have to realize Gay didn't play PF until after the Gasol trade when he became the go to scorer. Naturally, his numbers were going to improve when he became the #1 option and they did.

His percentage numbers actually got worse after the trade of Pau though, whereas his percentages between playing SF and PF went up so that can't account for the difference.

The only big changes in his numbers before and after the trade were he shot an extra half a FG attempt per game less efficiently than pre-trade and his 3pt% dropped.There isn't any indication that his numbers got better after the trade at all.