Inspired by a thread on the Detroit board, what picks would you trade our players for, and what could our players get in terms of pick range.
(Credit to Bstein for the idea)
What pick would you want if you had to trade these players for this years draft picks(Be realistic)?
Edit: I know Jefferson is untouchable,i'd never trade him.
(Just pretend Gomes and Smith aren't FA)
Foye - 5-10
Brewer - 7-18
McCants - 10-20
Jefferson - #1 pick + more
Gomes - 18-20 ish
Smith - Any late first rounder will do(25-30)
What picks would you trade our young players for?
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What picks would you trade our young players for?
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theGreatRC
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Devilzsidewalk
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digitaldropoff
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Foye - Lotto....5-8 is fair for him. He could be had for multiple firsts...such as NJ 10 and 21, for Foye and one or both 2nds.
Brewer - Lotto...7-10, he was drafted for defense and potential, regardless of how good his collegiant career was.
McCants - Lotto..4-7. To me, McCants is our second best player. He's better than Foye, and shows more potential in my opinion. I like Foye and what he can do and may be able to do, but McCants at this time is our best perimeter threat....the more threats from the outside, the better AJ has it.
Jefferson - Untradeable...Real deal big men are at a premium..regardless of defensive skill.
Gomes - I agree 18-20...but that also depends on what big men are left after 20...If Beasley falls to us, I have no problem on cutting Gomes loose.
Smith - Any late first rounder will do....indeed. I like Smith, I really do....but the on defense we're playing 4 on 5 everytime he's out there...and it's completely redundant playing him along side AJ. Smith is a bench spark plug, nothing more, nothing less...he's more than welcome to play here...but for cheap.
All in all, I really don't want to move anyone. I can see losing Smith and or Telfair....but these things don't really bother me...it happens, and those guys are expendable..though they add good depth to our bench. But face it....our core is decent, and still very young...this should be the year a lot of these guys come into their own....and Brew should make a significant stride on shooting the rock everyday 10,000 times because he sucked so hard last season. Adding to this core...possibly Mayo...and possibly...three more first rounders next season. Foye, McCants, Mayo, Brewer, Gomes, AJ.....that's a lot of young talent...with superstar potential to go along with a few. I would go with this and talk about trading some of our picks for players to take the next step.....hopefully contenders in the 09 baby!
Brewer - Lotto...7-10, he was drafted for defense and potential, regardless of how good his collegiant career was.
McCants - Lotto..4-7. To me, McCants is our second best player. He's better than Foye, and shows more potential in my opinion. I like Foye and what he can do and may be able to do, but McCants at this time is our best perimeter threat....the more threats from the outside, the better AJ has it.
Jefferson - Untradeable...Real deal big men are at a premium..regardless of defensive skill.
Gomes - I agree 18-20...but that also depends on what big men are left after 20...If Beasley falls to us, I have no problem on cutting Gomes loose.
Smith - Any late first rounder will do....indeed. I like Smith, I really do....but the on defense we're playing 4 on 5 everytime he's out there...and it's completely redundant playing him along side AJ. Smith is a bench spark plug, nothing more, nothing less...he's more than welcome to play here...but for cheap.
All in all, I really don't want to move anyone. I can see losing Smith and or Telfair....but these things don't really bother me...it happens, and those guys are expendable..though they add good depth to our bench. But face it....our core is decent, and still very young...this should be the year a lot of these guys come into their own....and Brew should make a significant stride on shooting the rock everyday 10,000 times because he sucked so hard last season. Adding to this core...possibly Mayo...and possibly...three more first rounders next season. Foye, McCants, Mayo, Brewer, Gomes, AJ.....that's a lot of young talent...with superstar potential to go along with a few. I would go with this and talk about trading some of our picks for players to take the next step.....hopefully contenders in the 09 baby!
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shrink
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Interesting thread greatRC - thanks for bringing it over.
Al Jefferson -- Beasley plus some nice incentive. Al > Beasley, and maybe what we'd hope Beasley would become, so there's great risk there that Beasley never meets his potential. We might also be risking on attitude -- Al's desire to improve is what took KG from star to superstar. However, Beasley has the size, speed, athleticism, and skill. He also would be starting a cheap deal. I'm not saying Jefferson isn't a bargain at $11 mil, but Beasley is also a bargain.
Foye - 5 or better. When Foye is healthy and given minutes, he puts up great per-minute numbers. It takes longer to develop as a PG in the lightning quick NBA, and Foye didn't come into the league with much experience even as a college PG. I think he has tremendous potential. I would not trade him for, say, Eric Gordon.
Brewer - 6-10. I wish his jumpshot would have fallen, but its way to early for people elsewhere to call him a bust. He's young, has a lot to learn, and needs to hit the weight room, but Brewer showed some length and athleticism that has me salivating. I would not slide down from his draft position.
McCants - late lottery. I am from the group that wants to see what the kid can do when he's 100% healthy. The thing that concerns me about young kids is no work ethic, and McCants has plenty of that. As I've said in other threads, I'd like management to play him a lot of starters minutes the first six weeks. To me, that's his audition. I expect 20 PPG, but what I'm looking for is how well he improved this summer on the other aspects of the game. Even if we still trade him, as a 20 PPG scorer, he'll have mroe trade value than he does now.
Gomes, Smith, and Telfair are all restricted free agents, which means we can't expect as much. If they were locked into a contract, a team might trade for them, but as RFA's a team could keep it's pick and just overpay, making an offer Glen Taylor wouldn't match.
I'll list what pick I think they should be worth first, and what I'd accept with the RFA status second).
Ryan Gomes (15) (20). Gomes as a starter was like 16-7, and even better later in the season. He's a flexible SF/PF can score outside with speed, and inside with determination. As a PF though, he'll struggle with his size, which is why I hope the wolves don't offer him a deal with a lot of years. However, he brings more poise to the team than maybe any other player, which is something we definitely need.
Craig Smith (18) (24). A rumor from the Wolves organization is that they were not surprised to see Smith progress with Al Jefferson in front of him, and more importantly, the complimentary Randy Foye out for so long. Smith is exclusively an under-sized PF, but his uncanny quickness allows him to get his shot off against anyone, and he rarely misses (like FG 55%). I could see a cash strapped contender giving a pick for him, because he'd be more useful than anything they could get in the draft, and they wouldn't have as much longterm guaranteed salary)
Sebastian Telfair (24) (28). I think he was 10 PPG, 6 APG for the Wolves, and he seemed to get better as he got more comfortable here throughout the season. I was impressed as he cut his turnovers down, and his quickness can be jawdropping sometimes -- he doesn't know how to take great advantage of it yet though. I've suggested a S&T to NJ, so he can go back and fill seats in Brooklyn, if the Nets trade Marcus Williams. The Nets have all the right components: Trading Marcus Williams means they want to win-now with Vince Carter, they are up against the lux, and have an owner who seems unwilling to pay $1 more than the lux. They have the #21, which is a bit high for Telfair, but the owner would shed a guaranteed salary, so maybe Telfair + #34 for #21?
Al Jefferson -- Beasley plus some nice incentive. Al > Beasley, and maybe what we'd hope Beasley would become, so there's great risk there that Beasley never meets his potential. We might also be risking on attitude -- Al's desire to improve is what took KG from star to superstar. However, Beasley has the size, speed, athleticism, and skill. He also would be starting a cheap deal. I'm not saying Jefferson isn't a bargain at $11 mil, but Beasley is also a bargain.
Foye - 5 or better. When Foye is healthy and given minutes, he puts up great per-minute numbers. It takes longer to develop as a PG in the lightning quick NBA, and Foye didn't come into the league with much experience even as a college PG. I think he has tremendous potential. I would not trade him for, say, Eric Gordon.
Brewer - 6-10. I wish his jumpshot would have fallen, but its way to early for people elsewhere to call him a bust. He's young, has a lot to learn, and needs to hit the weight room, but Brewer showed some length and athleticism that has me salivating. I would not slide down from his draft position.
McCants - late lottery. I am from the group that wants to see what the kid can do when he's 100% healthy. The thing that concerns me about young kids is no work ethic, and McCants has plenty of that. As I've said in other threads, I'd like management to play him a lot of starters minutes the first six weeks. To me, that's his audition. I expect 20 PPG, but what I'm looking for is how well he improved this summer on the other aspects of the game. Even if we still trade him, as a 20 PPG scorer, he'll have mroe trade value than he does now.
Gomes, Smith, and Telfair are all restricted free agents, which means we can't expect as much. If they were locked into a contract, a team might trade for them, but as RFA's a team could keep it's pick and just overpay, making an offer Glen Taylor wouldn't match.
I'll list what pick I think they should be worth first, and what I'd accept with the RFA status second).
Ryan Gomes (15) (20). Gomes as a starter was like 16-7, and even better later in the season. He's a flexible SF/PF can score outside with speed, and inside with determination. As a PF though, he'll struggle with his size, which is why I hope the wolves don't offer him a deal with a lot of years. However, he brings more poise to the team than maybe any other player, which is something we definitely need.
Craig Smith (18) (24). A rumor from the Wolves organization is that they were not surprised to see Smith progress with Al Jefferson in front of him, and more importantly, the complimentary Randy Foye out for so long. Smith is exclusively an under-sized PF, but his uncanny quickness allows him to get his shot off against anyone, and he rarely misses (like FG 55%). I could see a cash strapped contender giving a pick for him, because he'd be more useful than anything they could get in the draft, and they wouldn't have as much longterm guaranteed salary)
Sebastian Telfair (24) (28). I think he was 10 PPG, 6 APG for the Wolves, and he seemed to get better as he got more comfortable here throughout the season. I was impressed as he cut his turnovers down, and his quickness can be jawdropping sometimes -- he doesn't know how to take great advantage of it yet though. I've suggested a S&T to NJ, so he can go back and fill seats in Brooklyn, if the Nets trade Marcus Williams. The Nets have all the right components: Trading Marcus Williams means they want to win-now with Vince Carter, they are up against the lux, and have an owner who seems unwilling to pay $1 more than the lux. They have the #21, which is a bit high for Telfair, but the owner would shed a guaranteed salary, so maybe Telfair + #34 for #21?
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the_bruce
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Foye - nothing besides top 2, he was off the hook in summer league, and the final month of the season. He'd never get back anything
Brewer - 7+, if his jumper is fixed next season he will have a hell of a year. What other rookie was forced to guard the best offensive player aside from brewer? He did a good job vs LBJ during the 1st half one game too. He puts on 25 lbs and he will be big enough to guard all SF's, some PF's, and still be quick and long enough to give SG's fits.
McCants - now 15ish, but imo can only go up
Jefferson - Never? His production and good character make it so I would probably only consider a few players in the league
Gomes - 13-25, no player in that range will be as productive as gomes for his price. perfectly suited for run and gun team
Smith - 20-30, of use to playoff team that needs cheap scoring. perfectly suited for run and gun team
Brewer - 7+, if his jumper is fixed next season he will have a hell of a year. What other rookie was forced to guard the best offensive player aside from brewer? He did a good job vs LBJ during the 1st half one game too. He puts on 25 lbs and he will be big enough to guard all SF's, some PF's, and still be quick and long enough to give SG's fits.
McCants - now 15ish, but imo can only go up
Jefferson - Never? His production and good character make it so I would probably only consider a few players in the league
Gomes - 13-25, no player in that range will be as productive as gomes for his price. perfectly suited for run and gun team
Smith - 20-30, of use to playoff team that needs cheap scoring. perfectly suited for run and gun team
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Devilzsidewalk
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thing that worries me most is Brewer is already 22 and he's skinny; usually once you're 22, you're more or less physically developed. I can't imagine him being a stout 215, and thats about the minimum for being a SF these days. Plus he has to work on ball handling and shooting and his defense isn't exactly lockdown yet.
I think he can be a valuable contributor, a starter, but not a star. I project him to be an energy guy mostly, intense defense, hit the open 18' shot, respectable on the break. But you can find these guys off the street. Bowen of course, Juaquin Hawkins for a spell, Jamario Moon this year...etc. Small forward is the easiest position to fill.
Hopefully Brewer proves me wrong and comes to camp looking irreplaceable and studly
I think he can be a valuable contributor, a starter, but not a star. I project him to be an energy guy mostly, intense defense, hit the open 18' shot, respectable on the break. But you can find these guys off the street. Bowen of course, Juaquin Hawkins for a spell, Jamario Moon this year...etc. Small forward is the easiest position to fill.
Hopefully Brewer proves me wrong and comes to camp looking irreplaceable and studly
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TrentTuckerForever
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Devilzsidewalk wrote:thing that worries me most is Brewer is already 22 and he's skinny; usually once you're 22, you're more or less physically developed. I can't imagine him being a stout 215, and thats about the minimum for being a SF these days. Plus he has to work on ball handling and shooting and his defense isn't exactly lockdown yet.
I think he can be a valuable contributor, a starter, but not a star. I project him to be an energy guy mostly, intense defense, hit the open 18' shot, respectable on the break. But you can find these guys off the street. Bowen of course, Juaquin Hawkins for a spell, Jamario Moon this year...etc. Small forward is the easiest position to fill.
Hopefully Brewer proves me wrong and comes to camp looking irreplaceable and studly
Good point on his age, but I personally think his bulk isn't as big an issue because Brewer's future is at the 2. His length in the backcourt would be as disruptive as Tayshawn Prince's is in Detroit's frontcourt. Brewer is quick enough to guard 1s, why bulk him up?
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the_bruce
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Thing about Brewer is he measured in last year with 4.2% bodyfat, he could easily double his bf % without impacting his athletic performance. He'd clock in at 193. combine that with a decent strength training routine and he could tack on another 8lbs there. Pushing him to 200 ish. I fully expect the kid to put on some weight following professional trainers advice. The kids already seemingly absurdly strong for his body mass. I think the Florida trainers did a pretty good job with training their prospects in the weight room they all seemed to do well, but the NBA trainers are a step above plus the kid can focus on an eating times, special diets, tailored training, etc. Which will all help him put on some mass.
What I'm most interested in seeing is if he can increase athletically if he puts on additional muscle. 2 guys in last years draft T. Young and A. Thornton had similar athletic markers but both outweighed Brewer by 25-35 lbs.
What I'm most interested in seeing is if he can increase athletically if he puts on additional muscle. 2 guys in last years draft T. Young and A. Thornton had similar athletic markers but both outweighed Brewer by 25-35 lbs.
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GopherIt!
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thing that worries me most is Brewer is already 22 and he's skinny; usually once you're 22, you're more or less physically developed.
I was actually a bean poll like Corey until about age 25-26. He'll probably always be a lean dude but he'll fill out. He's got the Wolves trainers and nutritionists to help him get there.
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Devilzsidewalk
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horaceworthy
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Devilzsidewalk wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I think so too, but then again KG came in at age 18 and McCants was never thin
Garnett came in younger than Brewer did, but KG didn't really bulk up until he was about 25.
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revprodeji
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I do not trade young guys if you think they are part of the team longterm. For me that is
Jefferson/Foye/Brewer
with hopefully Gomes.
Other than that Shad/Bassy/Cookie can all be pieces to move other parts.
Jefferson/Foye/Brewer
with hopefully Gomes.
Other than that Shad/Bassy/Cookie can all be pieces to move other parts.
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