RealGM

Can be thought of as 2 trades or 1.

First: Memphis trades Mike Conley To Portland for #13 and Travis Outlaw.

Second: Wolves trade #3 and #31 to Memphis for #5 and #13.

Portland: They get a great PG prospect for them who fits with their personality and improves team chemistry. Obviously they would then look to move Jack and/or Rordriguez.

New depth chart:
Conley/Blake/Jack/Rodriguez
Roy/Rodriguez
Webster/Jones
Aldridge/Frye
Oden/Pryz

Memphis: They move up to get Mayo, who should bring excitement to the team and help them sell tickets. They remove the glut a PG and pick up two players who should succeed in their offensive system.

Lowry/Crittendon
Mayo/Miller
Gay/Miller
Outlaw/Warrick
Darko/Gasol

Minnesota: Mayo lovers cry and say things like 'if Mayo turns into a star, McHale will look like an idiot." However, McHale decided he was going to take a front court player at 3 anyway (either Love or Lopez) and he trades back two spots and picks up another great prospect. He picks his big man of choice at #5 Lopez or Love, and his SF of choice at #13 Alexander or Green.

In a separate deal, Jack is sent to the Wolves for Boston's first round pick next year. (Or for those who hate the idea of giving away the #30 pick next year, we could just resign Telfair)

Foye/Jack
Brewer/McCants
Alexander or Green/Brewer/Gomes
Jefferson/Gomes
Lopez or Love/Richard/#34

First, you cant sit here and say with 100% certainty that we will have the #30 pick next year from Boston. They can win this year and completely lose their hunger. If either Pierce or KG goes down with an injury they may end up in the early twenties as I dont see Allen making a big contribution next season.

Id STILL rather take the chance on Mayo on a couple project bigs than Lopez and another SF.

4ho5ive wrote:First, you cant sit here and say with 100% certainty that we will have the #30 pick next year from Boston. They can win this year and completely lose their hunger. If either Pierce or KG goes down with an injury they may end up in the early twenties as I dont see Allen making a big contribution next season.

Id STILL rather take the chance on Mayo on a couple project bigs than Lopez and another SF.

I CAN sit here and say the pick will be between 25-30, the value of which is negligible. But this point is rather meritless when assessing the trade scenario as a whole.

I'm off the Mayo bandwagon. If his name was Eric Johnson would people still be as crazy about him? I like him, but he no longer clearly beats out the other prospects for #3. If the Wolves brass decides Lopez provides an opportunity to draft a player that fits a need, and if opportunities to fill that need are going to be rare in the future, then I think we should trade down and take Lopez.

Im down for a love or lopez + alexander combo

To the OP

Good deal. "if" we are not convinced Mayo will be a star. If we feel that there is not much difference with Love/Lopez/Gallinar/Mayo then of course we make this deal. It is a very good deal in that sense, but as I said, only if we do not feel mayo is a star.

If we do not move on Mayo then we should resign Bassy. From what I hear, and I have heard in media (So I am cool with repeating it) Bassy is our 2nd priority in RFA right now (Gomes rightfully is first) Bassy would be finishing college right now and would have at least as much value as Ty lawson. Projected as a late 1st. So of course we keep Bassy.

If we do not think Mayo is a stud then we make this deal, resign Gomes/Bassy. Then looking at the picks (5-13) we go BPA from either. At 5 we could have
-Love
-Lopez
-Gallinari
-(maybe even Mayo if the Griz do this deal to get Lopez)

with 13 we have serious value with one of these guys falling
-Randolph
-Jordan
-Joe Alexander
-Koufas
-Brandon Rush
-Donte Green
-Javale McGee
-Speights

Fact of the matter is we have 2 options

1-Believe that there is a clear cut stud at the 3rd (whether Mayo/lopez/etc) and we take them and run with it...or

2-We trade down for value. Knowing that we are 3 or so players away from being a good team. This would allow us to get 2 of those guys. Due to the positions available we could go completely BPA for both spots and have some sweet scenarios.

Also, we still have the 2nd 2nd rd pick to get a prospect and stash in europe. (Big guy from down under?)

yea, I would be cool with this.

You followed my logic pretty closely Rev, i.e. "if" we are not convinced Mayo will be a star. I sometimes wonder if his name was more ordinary sounding whether everyone would think he was the next star. His numbers don't jump out with respect to other players in this draft and his measurements don't exactly project him to be a star SG.

Alos, I'm definitely down with keeping Bassy, but was just throwing out another option.

I doubt it is his name. I mean---are you that excited about basic food products?

I think his numbers jump out. Some of the best stats ever by a freshman guard in a major conference. Also, his form, his talent, his skills and work ethic are all off the charts. I actually think he would get more props now if people did not know about him before. I think it is the cool thing now to diss Mayo.

His measurements are fine when you consider a couple things
-many of the "6'7" sg's are really 6'4.5-6'5
-Mayo has a very, very high vert leap
-He has a point of release that is quick and in a hard to block spot compared to most SG's
-Mayo does not waste movement, this is very underated and I think something that only was shown in glipse last year. His body movements and the way he gets to where he wants to get is so smooth and perfected that he looks unathletic, but in reality he got to where he wants to go faster than the def could prepare.

I have no doubt Mayo will be a very effective SG. Whether he is a star or in the group below will be based on the system he is put in. But I think he does have legit star potential.

Our backcourt/outside shooting stays really, really weak, and corey brewer becomes even more of an offensive black hole at the 2 than he is at the 3.

Portland is good enough already, and you want to add mike conley jr to that team?

Memphis gives up way, way too much here to move up 2 spots for mayo without addressing their need for a big man in the draft.

'if Mayo turns into a star, McHale will look like an idiot."

With the question marks on the picks, and no solid ground underneath, I don't think MIN can afford the downside to this trade. If he keeps Mayo and he fails, at least fans, who would be on board with it, will blame Mayo and not McHale.

The value is there .. or maybe I should say "expected value." but with it all wrapped up in picks, with a lot less safety/potential than Mayo, I don't know. Good trade to discuss.

Also I really doubt Marc Gasol ever suits up for that team. He can make more in Europe and I doubt he would ever play for memphis after all the whining Pau did while there.

younggunsmn wrote:Our backcourt/outside shooting stays really, really weak, and corey brewer becomes even more of an offensive black hole at the 2 than he is at the 3.

Portland is good enough already, and you want to add mike conley jr to that team?

Memphis gives up way, way too much here to move up 2 spots for mayo without addressing their need for a big man in the draft.

Brewer is hardly an offensive black hole. In the NBA position is based on who you defend, not what you do on offense. You could argue if less attention is made on brewer he would be better on offense, also if you put more playmakers around him he would be better of course, if he learns a jumper he will be better.

Foye is a very good shooter, McCants off the bench is a good shooter. Gomes is a good shooter. Adding more shooters is positive, but it is hardly a weakness. I think our lack of playmakers is the weakness and one could argue Gallinari would have a positive effect.

We are not memphis or portland, so I will not speak for them. But for us it is a fair trade if we are not convinced Mayo is any different than the 4 guys after him. We are not one player away from playoffs, we are 3 or 4.

shrink wrote:'if Mayo turns into a star, McHale will look like an idiot."

With the question marks on the picks, and no solid ground underneath, I don't think MIN can afford the downside to this trade. If he keeps Mayo and he fails, at least fans, who would be on board with it, will blame Mayo and not McHale.

The value is there .. or maybe I should say "expected value." but with it all wrapped up in picks, with a lot less safety/potential than Mayo, I don't know. Good trade to discuss.

I agree with you, but it is his call. If the Braintrust is convinced he is a star then you take him and move on. Same if we assume Lopez is the real deal. If we love any of the prospects THAT much more than the others than we clearly take them. If they are equal then we move down. But it is the braintrust choice, not ours. The fans will hate it regardless.

revprodeji wrote: I agree with you, but it is his call. If the Braintrust is convinced he is a star then you take him and move on. Same if we assume Lopez is the real deal. If we love any of the prospects THAT much more than the others than we clearly take them. If they are equal then we move down. But it is the braintrust choice, not ours. The fans will hate it regardless.

I think you're right. I would be too risk averse to make this trade, but to McHale's credit (or discredit), he doesn't listen to polls, fans, etc. He's his own man, and will pick who he thinks is best. It got us KG, but it also got us Ndudi Ebi.

I agree with a lot of the points made. If Mayo is clearly one of the top 3 in the draft and the difference is significant we go with him. If it's not or we're looking in other directions then we deal. We could easily fill a lot of holes with this move.

Good to hear Bassy is a priority. I'm already firmly in the camp that Gomes should be back, he's the model SF with his inside/outside ability and truly believe after being our 2nd and at worst 3rd best player this last year he's a keeper. I think Bassy is still young enough that he's just begining to live up to his potential and we're interested in keeping him as well. Even if we draft Mayo, I'm reallly thinking warming up to a back court of Foye, Mayo, McCants, and Telfair that could be something special.

Brewer hasn't proven he can shoot consistently or drive to the hoop with any success, and that's sugar-coating it.

The good defensive teams know how to expose your weaknesses, essentially doubling off your weak player constantly and making you play 4 on 5 if he doesn't make you pay. It's magnified further when one of those guys plays a position where he's expected to score. I just don't want to see another trenton hassell on offense situation.

I'm a big bassy backer. I loved his on-the-ball defense last year, I thought it was the best we've had from a PG in a long time. He played most of the year without foye next to him. I think with a legit scorer like Mayo next to him he'd find more success and not have pressure to score with the shot clock winding down like happened too often last year. I keep having visions of this defensive lineup to close out games:
Telfair, Mayo, Brewer, Al, (2nd round C/FA/Trade).

In the end though whether or not he comes back comes down to money.
He has a 3.5 million RFA tender. We will be at 57.5 million or so after our draft picks and before we re-sign anyone. I want gomes and telfair back, we can re-sign them and stay safely under the luxury tax, but will glen spend the money after he lost so much last year? His history says yes, but you never know. The other question is, could we better use that 3.5 million on a Center and will there be one worth it?

younggunsmn wrote:Brewer hasn't proven he can shoot consistently or drive to the hoop with any success, and that's sugar-coating it.

The good defensive teams know how to expose your weaknesses, essentially doubling off your weak player constantly and making you play 4 on 5 if he doesn't make you pay. It's magnified further when one of those guys plays a position where he's expected to score. I just don't want to see another trenton hassell on offense situation.

I'm a big bassy backer. I loved his on-the-ball defense last year, I thought it was the best we've had from a PG in a long time. He played most of the year without foye next to him. I think with a legit scorer like Mayo next to him he'd find more success and not have pressure to score with the shot clock winding down like happened too often last year.

It's a little unfair that you hype bassy for his defense and dismiss his offensive shortcomings, then call Brewer a liability.

younggunsmn wrote:I keep having visions of this defensive lineup to close out games:
Telfair, Mayo, Brewer, Al, (2nd round C/FA/Trade).

Do you honestly think that would be a top 15 defensive lineup in the league? Maybe if Mayo was guarding 1's and Brewer was guarding 2's. But then there's three positions left that are below average defensively.

You have a point about Bassy's offensive shortcomings.
I guess my point is Bassy will be a reserve, best used when trying to protect a lead. He can contribute on offense without scoring (was pretty productive when it came to assists without much to work with outside of Al), something Corey can't really do outside of his nice entry passes to Al. And I mentioned how he didn't really have a scoring guard playing next to him to take the pressure off. He spent alot of time playing with Jaric during the first half of the year, those 2 trying to make layups was downright comical at times.

I think Telfair, Mayo, and Brewer can all be above-average defenders at the 1,2,and 3 respectively. How good our team defense is depends on who we get to play Center. A good defensive center can make everyone else (especially Al) better, just like a good defensive PG can keep people his man out of the lane. With a good C I think we can easily be a top 10 defense.

However, if we don't draft Mayo and let Telfair walk I think our defense will be horrible, not matter who we add at C. Foye was a turnstile on defense last year, got shredded regularly on the pick and roll, and is too short to guard opposing 2's. McCants was pretty bad on d too.

Having the option to bring Foye and Gomes in for offense and replace them with Telfair and Brewer for defense would be a great luxury to have.

In regards to Brewer and his offense:

If I am not mistaken, didn't the coaching staff break down his shot and reteach him how to shoot? Working in a new shot during the course of the season is going to brutalize your shooting percentage. It is usually something that is done in the off-season and can often times take the course of a season to become fully comfortable with it. This helps explain some of his deficiencies in terms of his offense. And if you know a guy isn't hitting well from mid to long range, you sag back or off of them and take away alot of their driving options. Additionally, when you are asked to work on a certain aspect of your game as much as it sounded like Brewer was asked to work on his shooting mechanics, etc. You tend to forget about other aspects of your game, over concentrating on the aspect you are supposed to be working on.

I am not making excuses or looking at him through rose-colored glasses. I suspect he will never be a big time scorer, but we need to give him a little time before labeling him a career long offensive liability. I think he is smart enough that he will continue to put himself into places where he will be most effective on the offensive side and put some points up as the talent around him continues to improve (through current players' skills and bringing in more talented players) as he does.

^^yes...and that was the same logic mentioned by Fred Hoiberg and JB.

Brewer will be fine. As long as he does not hurt his knee like every wolves rookie seems to before their soph season.

karch34 wrote:Good to hear Bassy is a priority. I'm already firmly in the camp that Gomes should be back, he's the model SF with his inside/outside ability and truly believe after being our 2nd and at worst 3rd best player this last year he's a keeper. I think Bassy is still young enough that he's just begining to live up to his potential and we're interested in keeping him as well. Even if we draft Mayo, I'm reallly thinking warming up to a back court of Foye, Mayo, McCants, and Telfair that could be something special.

Gomes is our #1---Craig Smith has likely played his last game in this uniform.

younggunsmn wrote:Brewer hasn't proven he can shoot consistently or drive to the hoop with any success, and that's sugar-coating it.

Brewer had confidence problems and I hope he fixed that. He was a rookie, they often struggle and as his confidence stuggled and as they were fixing his jumper he played less minutes in order not to harm his future development.

Best case scenario brewer is the 4th or 5th offensive option. Scoring points from his baseline mid range (the sam mitchell shot--he did decent with it towards the end and I know they were working on it) off the break or just moving around hustle style. He does not, nor should ever, get plays called for him, but he brings the energy and defense we need. It is just a matter of putting a scorer/playmaker next to him (either at the 3 with him at the 2 or vis versa) not Marko jaric.