Childress, Greece, and the Timberwolves

[Winter Wonder]

I was quite suprised to see Childress sign in Greece. Floored to be more exact. I just didn't see that happening.

Now I know there have been threads on different boards about the potential impact of the European teams and the salaries they are offering, but we really haven't discussed it on the MN board. Now I don't see any of the current Timberwolves rushing overseas to play, but than again, I didn't see Childress doing so either. Is he the biggest name to head across the pond?

The main reason I show concern now is with Pekovic. We have pretty much slated him as part of our front court in 2 years. Is this now potentially in Jeopardy? If he does come over, is his time here likely to be shortened due to the ability to get paid in his homeland? I could see him coming over on a 3 to 4 year contract at most and that be it, back to Europe. Is this devastating? Probably not, but it could ruin our future plans and will definitely affect drafting of European prospects.

Two years from now, I could see (if this trend continues) Smith or Telfair (less likely, but you never know) sign with a European club. Julius Hodge is over there. I am not saying he is the end all be all, but would put him on par with a Smith. We have enough issues keeping our players from other NBA teams, I really don't like the idea of having to deal with all the Euros (not dollars) the other hemisphere can throw at players as well.

[karch34]

I think it will be an issue for some players, especially as leverage with teams dragging their feet (see Childress and Atlanta).

That said while more money and it being tax free are enticing, I think there's also the argument that the NBA is still considered the best, that's what most kids in the U.S. dream about, not everyone is made for living overseas, while most of the people overseas speak English you're still not speaking the native tongue, etc.

Childress was the first real name player to go and I can certainly see more fringe players going rather than waiting all summer for the LLE or similar.

I really have no idea how Pekovic will be affected.

[jpatrick]

I don't know if this will become a trend with US players. Maybe. But I think most US born players don't want to play in Europe, and in fact, many take alot less money to stay here and play in the D-league. Although many do because it's much easier to get a 10 day contract with the NBA if you're here and don't have a Euro contract already. Maybe it's because he went to Stanford, but Childress has always come across as a guy who is a little different (not bad different) than your average NBAer.

Now as far as bringing over Euros to the US. The money overseas seems to be really going up and we've seen a few "marginal" NBA players from Europe go back overseas (Nachbar, Navarro, etc) and some refuse to come over (Vazquez, Splitter, etc). However, some top players just came over, Fernandez and Gasol, and neither got huge money. Gasol was just MVP of the Spanish league which is one of the top Euro leagues and he only got 3rs/9 or 10m and Fernandez got whatever a late first rounder under the salary scale gets. I think it just depends on the player. If they really want to play in the NBA they realistically might have to take a slight pay cut, at least on his first contract. Note: because Pekovic was a second rounder we can pay him whatever we want (up to our MLE or whatever cap space we have), I'm just not sure we would or should be willing to give up more than Gasol got.

One last note. I've seen all these reports that if a US player goes overseas the money is so much more because of the exchange rate and because they don't have to pay taxes. Well, the exchange rate yes. But taxes? I believe the US will tax any US citizen on their foreign source income (income from abroad). The taxpayer can take an income exclusion (I think it's less than 100K) and also get a credit in the amount they pay in taxes to that foreign country, but he's still paying basically the same amount in taxes. Now, I've heard that in Childress' case the team is paying all taxes so the 20m figure is actually an after-tax number. If that's the case, he got a nice contract but the statement that his salary is tax free I believe is incorrect. Any tax experts out there who can shed light on this...it's is way way out of my expertise and I could be 100% wrong...or maybe I'm the only one who thinks about such dumb things.

[TrentTuckerForever]

John Hollinger (ESPN) wrote something interesting on this in his chat yesterday. He noted that for midlevel players like Childress, Europe is an enticing option because they'll offer more real dollars (since the Euro is strong against the dollar and European players are paid tax free) and those guys are treated like royalty over there. BUT no European team that Hollinger knew of has the resources to lure the top-tier players away... no one can offer LeBron $30 million to play in Paris, for example. They can lure away midlevel guys, though.

How does that effect Pekovic? Well, if he plays well enough overseas to warrant a $10 million a year contract in the NBA, he'll probably come over because the NBA is still the best league in the world and the money would be equivalent or better to that which he'd demand in Europe (think Arvedas Sabonis coming over to the Blazers in the 90s.) If he remains a mid-level player (solid starter but not a star), I'd bet he stays overseas.

Just my opinion... I remember on draft night the ESPN talking heads said that Pekovic with the first pick in the 2nd round was a lock, because they knew how much potential he had and how the rookie scale wouldn't be enough to get him over. Based on the Childress deal, I would say it'll take a lot more than what we thought ($4-$5 million per year) to get him to commit. Probably a Chris Kaman or Sam Dalembert-level deal? That would be a ton of money for someone with no NBA experience, but again that may be what it takes to get him to make the jump.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I think we got to even the playing field by bringing over Loukas Mavrobovinespongoformencephalitis

[tvwolves7]

Also taking a look at other sports, such as soccer (football) the signing of David Beckham to L.A. Galaxy for 10 years 250 million has not affected Premier Leagues in Europe. In this case it was a higher-tier player, but it did not start a wave of highly skilled european players coming to the MLS. The same goes with other sports such as NHL players going to russian leagues or MLB players going to Japan. There will always be one here or there, but I do not see a trend happening.

More then anything I think it will affect european players coming here when drafter or staying once their contract ends with their NBA team.

[Devilzsidewalk]

but Euro basketball is a rapidly growing sport, whereas US Soccer is desperate to stay afloat

Childress going to Greece is Europe taking advantage of growing popularity and revenues, US getting Beckham was a league decision to try and win some publicity for a sport nobody cares about

[TrentTuckerForever]

I think we got to even the playing field by bringing over Loukas Mavrobovinespongoformencephalitis

Ugh... is that contagious?

[Winter Wonder]

Additionally, MLS salaries are not on the rise, it was just one high profile, highly paid athlete. The leagues overseas are starting to pay salaries on par or in excess of what the NBA will pay players in the middle levels.

As for the other sports, we have some fringe to middle talent MLB players head to Japan, but Japan doesn't have the amount or percentage of English speaking citizens as does europe which makes it a much larger culture shock. Additionally, baseball is not quite as global as basketball. I cannot comment on Hockey salaries, though as a whole, the US isn't considered the standard for all countries in regards to a talent base as it is in basketball.

Regardless, I found it interesting to see the players looking into Europe; Childress and Jennings highlighting the most recent ones to test the market there and bring it much more to the forefront of athletes' and agents' minds. I do see the reverse with some players coming over to the NBA due to higher over all monetary potential in the long run for star players, but there is competition now and it could grow even more so in the foreseeable future. Also, with those coming over to the US from Europe; I could easily see it being a one contract and done if the dollars aren't there for their second contract.

[tvwolves7]

Agree Soccer is not a popular sport in the US. However, Soccer is by far the most popular sport in Europe. I do not think that Josh Childress, who is a great player, will start a trend for a sport that is not a top 5 sport in Europe.

Over there:

1. Soccer
2. Cricket
3. Tennis
4. Indy racing (if you consider driving a sport)
5. Cyclying

[Devilzsidewalk]

You can't count Cricket just because the 450 billion people in India and Pakistan like it and you cant count table tennis just because China thinks its awesome, thats not a good representation of popularity across the world

basketball is hugely popular in eastern and southern europe, Childress wasn't signed to grow basketball, its already popular. But Beckham was signed to grow soccer.

Soccer of course is first in most every country except the USA, but in basically spain, italy, croatia, latvia, russia - basically all the countries in that area - basketball is 2nd most popular. Its also growing greatly in Asia and Africa and South America.

I don't know where basketball ranks worldwide in current popularity, but I think its safe to say its the fastest growing sport

[Winter Wonder]

Going to post this in another thread as well, but you know what would be really interesting....

seeing Okafor sign overseas for a year to combat his RFA status as opposed to playing for the qualifying offer. Now he is a player that would make more in the US by far and I see him playing long term here, but to buck the RFA status and if he wasn't happy in Char, this could be an option for him. I don't think it will happen, but it is an option players will have when they are RFA's. This idea was thrown out in the Trades forum under the Official: Childress signing in Greece thread.

[shrink]

How does that effect Pekovic? Well, if he plays well enough overseas to warrant a $10 million a year contract in the NBA, he'll probably come over because the NBA is still the best league in the world and the money would be equivalent or better to that which he'd demand in Europe (think Arvedas Sabonis coming over to the Blazers in the 90s.).

Can a second-round pick entering the NBA, no matter what year, actually get a $10 mil contract under the rules?

Or will he be restricted to the Collective Bargaining agreement, limiting him to a rookie scale contract (+120%)?

[jpatrick]

Going to post this in another thread as well, but you know what would be really interesting....

seeing Okafor sign overseas for a year to combat his RFA status as opposed to playing for the qualifying offer. Now he is a player that would make more in the US by far and I see him playing long term here, but to buck the RFA status and if he wasn't happy in Char, this could be an option for him. I don't think it will happen, but it is an option players will have when they are RFA's. This idea was thrown out in the Trades forum under the Official: Childress signing in Greece thread.

The only problem with this thinking is that in a year when he tried to come back to the NBA he would still be a RFA, so he wouldn't get much benefit from the year abroad unless it convinced the Bobcats that they needed to trade him. This is why if Childress comes back in three years, he'll still be a RFA for the Hawks.

Can a second-round pick entering the NBA, no matter what year, actually get a $10 mil contract under the rules?

Or will he be restricted to the Collective Bargaining agreement, limiting him to a rookie scale contract (+120%)?

I thought the reason everyone said Pekovic was going to be the first pick of the second round, and not a first rounder, was that only first rounders are subject to the rookie scale. That wouldn't be enough to get him over here, but as a second rounder, he wouldn't be subject to the scale and therefore could sign for any amount the team could spend on any free agent (i.e. the MLE or any cap space they had).

[tvwolves7]

Devilz you bring up good points. When I said tennis I was reffering to tennis as in Wimbeldon, French Open not table tennis. Cricket, I guess is more of an India/Pakistan sport but in some European countries I would assume is more watched/played then basketball.

I do not know either but I would agree that basketball is probably one of the fastest if not the fastest growing sport in the world.

And if I said earlier or made it sound like I thought Childress would grow the sport like Bechkam is supposed to with soccer, I did not mean that. When I used him as an example I am simply pointing out that one of their soccer stars came here which was upsetting to some soccer fans, but did not make other soccer stars come over. I think that in Childress going to Europe will upset some basketball fans, but will not make other players jump ship.

[casey]

How does that effect Pekovic? Well, if he plays well enough overseas to warrant a $10 million a year contract in the NBA, he'll probably come over because the NBA is still the best league in the world and the money would be equivalent or better to that which he'd demand in Europe (think Arvedas Sabonis coming over to the Blazers in the 90s.).

Can a second-round pick entering the NBA, no matter what year, actually get a $10 mil contract under the rules?

Or will he be restricted to the Collective Bargaining agreement, limiting him to a rookie scale contract (+120%)?

There is no rookie scale for 2nd round picks.

[Winter Wonder]

Thanks for the heads up on RFA status. I asked about it in another thread and wasn't sure if the RFA status remained upon a player's return to the NBA. That would make the Okafor thing much less likely, though not impossible knowing he would have more suitors in 2010.

And as stated, 2nd round is not bound to rookie scale at all, if I recall correctly.

[big3_8_19_21]

American children don't grow up dreaming of playing basketball in Europe.

[Devilzsidewalk]

American children don't grow up dreaming of being marketing directors for General Mills either, but money talks and those that offer the most money tend to win out

[wolves_fan_82au]

Two years from now, I could see (if this trend continues) Smith or Telfair (less likely, but you never know) sign with a European club.

Julius Hodge is over there.

I am not saying he is the end all be all, but would put him on par with a Smith. We have enough issues keeping our players from other NBA teams, I really don't like the idea of having to deal with all the Euros (not dollars) the other hemisphere can throw at players as well.

he wasnt in europe he was playing here in Australia

and the only reason why he was over here was cause none of the nba teams wanted him