Brewer vs Gomes

[shrink]

Corey Brewer will be starting tonight against CHI, while Ryan Gomes comes off the bench.

I think this will be the most interesting position battle for some time, and the starting nod will depend a lot on the Wolves direction.

I think Ryan Gomes is a better player -- so much so that starting Brewer could gost us games. He can do a lot to help a team, both on offense and defense. I think his greatest contribution to Wolves wins, both last year and maybe this year, is his poise. There were plenty of times last year where this quality alone made Gomes the best player on the floor, particularly in the fourth quarter.

However, I don't think anyone would disagree that Corey Brewer has a lot greater upside. As a rookie he was already given the defensive assignment against the other team's top scorer. Sometimes he did OK, sometimes not, but his physical potential could make him a tremendous defender in the league. Last season he couldn't find his jumpshot, but if he can add that, his defense would be a big contribution to this team.

So who do you think should be the primary starter, if it comes down to Gomes vs Brewer? Are we trying for wins this year, right from the start, after a successful pre-season? Or was that just an illusion since the wolves showed up at camp so early that they were more prepared to play with each other? Are we playing for next year, and should be starting Brewer, even if it costs us wins?

[Rocky5000]

Gomes. Unless Brewer's new found jumper sticks around. But even then I think Brewer should have to play himself into a starting role. Gomes has had the better preseason IMO, so he should get the spot.

[collin_k41]

My starting lineup this year would include both players.
PG:Foye
SG:Brewer
SF:Miller
PF:Gomes
C:Big Al

We started gomes at the PF most of last year I don't know why we couldn't do it again. Brewer and Miller could be interchanged. I don't like getting caught up with starting lineups. Just because one person starts, it doesn't mean another player won't play more minutes at that position than the starter. Even my starting lineup wouldn't be the guys who'd be playing with each other/those positions during the game. I'd probably want to have Foye, Mccants, Miller, Love, and Al in together for as long as possible. As of right now I'd say Gomes is the better player and he should definitely play more minutes than Brewer but if Brewer proves himself he should be rewarded.

[SeattleB]

Thought you guys might enjoy this. Jim Calhoun after hometown boy Gomes beats his National Champioship team again.

http://www.logusz.com/~yupislyr/1/calhoun.mp3

An oldy but a goodie.

[Devilzsidewalk]

it's hard because there's been a lot of inconsistent play so far in the games

Jefferson is a for sure starter. Foye is a for sure starter, though somewhat by default. He hasn't played amazing or anything. Miller is a for sure starter.

There you have 3 guys cemented. I think Gomes should start. I agree with that, he's probably the most consistent player after Jefferson and Miller. So then the question is, do you want to be really small or really slow? If we want to be really small, we go C Jefferson, PF Gomes, SF Miller PG Foye, then at SG maybe Brewer, maybe McCants, they've both been about the same.

If we want to be really slow, we can go PF Jefferson, SF Gomes, SG Miller, PG Foye, then at center? I have no idea. I'm tempted to go Chris Richard to be honest. He just seems hard to deal with because of his strength, I think he can do some good things w/ the starters.

At this point, that'd be my typical lineup so far after seeing these guys in the preseason. It's not earth-shattering, but I think it's the best one:

C Chris Richard, PF Al Jefferson, SF Ryan Gomes, SG Mike Miller, PG Randy Foye.

and to clearly answer the OP's question, Gomes over Brewer

[revprodeji]

A lot of it depends more on Love. if love is ready to start then you have a problem with the Gomes/Brewer. If Love needs some time (most rookie 19yr olds do) then we go small with Al/Gomes/Brew/Miller/Foye. Brewer is the 5th option in that line up. His defensive skill and fast break ability makes him an asset.

When Love is able to start, that is when we will have serious questions.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I don't want to go small - as the game goes on yes, but not to start. That's why I say we start Chris Richard.

Teams always try to get their bigmen early touches to start the game so the guy can establish rhythm, then theoretically start playing defense. So Ilguaskas, and Haywood, and these guys with average offensive games, but critical defensive games, they get early touches so they feel involved.

If they're going up against Gomes, they can get that established early, but if it's Richard, they're going to be down there early in the game in the low post pushing and shoving and trying to get position, and that's a game that Chris Richard can win. Instead of Haywood or Bynum or whomever starting off feeling good by pushing around a small frontcourt early, he's gonna start off frustrated after fthe futility of rying to overpower Richard.

He'll probably only play 20 mpg, probably have some foul trouble games, and probably be the first guy subbed out, but he gives good strength, decent size, and always seems to have a positive impact on the game when he's in there.

[TrentTuckerForever]

I don't want to go small - as the game goes on yes, but not to start. That's why I say we start Chris Richard.

Teams always try to get their bigmen early touches to start the game so the guy can establish rhythm, then theoretically start playing defense. So Ilguaskas, and Haywood, and these guys with average offensive games, but critical defensive games, they get early touches so they feel involved.

Agree. Back when George Karl was still alive, up in Seattle, he started a young, inexperienced center named Ervin Johnson next to Shawn Kemp, Detlef Schrempf, Hersey Hawkins and Gary Payton. Doing so cemented everyone else's role - Schrempf and Hawk as outside shooters, Kemp and Payton as initiators of the offense. Payton (still the Glove at that time) anchored the defense at the point, and Johnson blocked shots and rebounded at the rim. He didn't finish games (Sam Perkins did... I loved that team if you can't tell), but Johnson played a critical role in the starting lineup.

Now, these Wolves aren't those Sonics by any stretch, but in terms of the roles these players should play, if you start a real center everyone else slots in:

Jefferson - a natural PF, who's a terrific weakside rebounder and would benefit from not playing C.
Miller - injury prone, but one of the best spot-up shooters in the league and an underrated creator. Control his minutes using Gomes.
Brewer - as Collin said, Miller and Brewer are interchangable at the 2/3... Brewer the better defender, Miller the better offensive player. Brewer needs the minutes to develop.
Foye - need to improve as a defender and distributor, but he needs playing time to do those things. Give him the keys, get out of the way.

So that leaves McCants as a 6th man, with Gomes and Love playing 25-30 mpg in relief of Jefferson, Miller and your starting center. I'd use Ollie as the backup point, myself (plenty of scorers on that second unit.) That's the beginnings of a playoff rotation there, kids. Whether the Woofies start Richard (good plan) or Collins (an established veteran who's done it for years) that's the best plan as long as everyone's healthy, IMO.

[C.lupus]

Yeah, it's unfortunate that neither Collins nor Harrison is healthy. It would be nice to have a vet big body in the starting lineup for that purpose, even if he only plays 10-15 minutes. I would like to see what Richard could do in that role.

If Wittman is going to start Madsen, like he seems to be leaning, then I would rather see Gomes in the starting lineup than Brewer. Gomes has a bit more offense (and size) at this point to offset Madsen's complete lack thereof.

[john2jer]

Considering our current make-up, it seems like a no-brainer for me.

C - ???
PF - Jefferson
SF - Gomes
SG - Miller
PG - Foye

With McCants and Brewer coming off the bench probably at the same time. The center ends up being Collins, Harrison, or Richard, whoever can defend and rebound. That's all we really need him to do at this point. Ideally Love comes along quickly during the season and we can plug him into the 5 spot, which Gomes and Miller make that easier because they can rebound. For years this team's problem has been rebounding. We've always had that 1 great rebounder, but as a team we sucked. We need to get Jefferson help on the boards. The team defense will improve when we stop giving up second chance opportunities.

[wolves_fan_82au]

i dont think hes gonna start madsen
i always though madsen always starts in pre-season every year

[Devilzsidewalk]

I wanted Love and McCants to start, but I'm starting to feel like they need to recognize the value of contributing in all aspects of basketball from the bench.

Love should be killing on the glass every game, we haven't faced a dominating rebounding team the whole preseason. McCants has yet to play a game this preseason where he's shot 50% or more and had more rebounds/assists/steals than turnovers/fouls. That's not efficient basketball and it's hurting as often as helping.

Those 2 guys are key to the season because they can do things nobody else on the team can do and they both have the talent to be big-time players in the NBA, but they're being dragged down by correctable flaws. I'm still waiting. In the mean-time, go with the lesser talents, but more consistent performers.

[karch34]

Totally agree with TTF. Even if he doesn't play major minutes, you would ideally like a real center starting the game. I think that there would be plenty of minutes for McCants, Love, and Gomes off the bench as he discussed.

While Foye, McCants, Miller, Gomes, and Jefferson might wind up being the best lineup, I don't like it as the starting lineup.

[JMillott]

Longtime Celtics fan and as such a huge Al Jefferson fan and while his best position is PF he is fine at the C spot as long as they play him with a legit PF. I've heard a lot of talk about him not being a good fit next to Kevin Love but I think it'll be fine as long they stop playing him with midgets like Gomes at PF.

[SpencerBusch]

Gomes=Better Offensive Player. Brewer=Better Defensive Player.

I still say Gomes just because he is still a legit defensive player and will score more points. But if we are playing Kobe or Lebron i say go with Brewer and let Gomes play the 2 or 4 so Brewer can shut down defensivley.

[4ho5ive]

Gomes at the 2 is a no no. I dont see too many opportunities to see Brew and Gomes out there at the same time. It just doesnt mesh well to me. Like a Telfair/Foye back-court

[TrentTuckerForever]

Longtime Celtics fan and as such a huge Al Jefferson fan and while his best position is PF he is fine at the C spot as long as they play him with a legit PF. I've heard a lot of talk about him not being a good fit next to Kevin Love but I think it'll be fine as long they stop playing him with midgets like Gomes at PF.

Gomes at the 4 next to Al is effective for stretches, and probably would be more so if the Wolves had better point guard play (think Stoudemire and Marion in Phoenix, with Nash getting them the ball) or better overall defense.

But I agree overall - Love, when he gets up to speed, will be a good complement to Jefferson.

[TrentTuckerForever]

Considering our current make-up, it seems like a no-brainer for me.

C - ???
PF - Jefferson
SF - Gomes
SG - Miller
PG - Foye

With McCants and Brewer coming off the bench probably at the same time. The center ends up being Collins, Harrison, or Richard, whoever can defend and rebound. That's all we really need him to do at this point. Ideally Love comes along quickly during the season and we can plug him into the 5 spot, which Gomes and Miller make that easier because they can rebound. For years this team's problem has been rebounding. We've always had that 1 great rebounder, but as a team we sucked. We need to get Jefferson help on the boards. The team defense will improve when we stop giving up second chance opportunities.

Who defends Kobe, or McGrady, or even Carmelo Anthony in this lineup? I see your point on the rebounding... probably more important for Wittman to start a real center than the point of this thread, but I'd start Brewer over Gomes myself.

[cpfsf]

Considering our current make-up, it seems like a no-brainer for me.

C - ???
PF - Jefferson
SF - Gomes
SG - Miller
PG - Foye

With McCants and Brewer coming off the bench probably at the same time. The center ends up being Collins, Harrison, or Richard, whoever can defend and rebound. That's all we really need him to do at this point. Ideally Love comes along quickly during the season and we can plug him into the 5 spot, which Gomes and Miller make that easier because they can rebound. For years this team's problem has been rebounding. We've always had that 1 great rebounder, but as a team we sucked. We need to get Jefferson help on the boards. The team defense will improve when we stop giving up second chance opportunities.

Who defends Kobe, or McGrady, or even Carmelo Anthony in this lineup? I see your point on the rebounding... probably more important for Wittman to start a real center than the point of this thread, but I'd start Brewer over Gomes myself.

Even if everyone is healthy, I would not want to see the same lineup for 82 games. Some players would work better against some teams and some work better against other teams.