RealGM

We have talked about the players, we have talked about the coach. But what is really causing this team to collapse? Say what you will about the talent assembled but in the NBA, any team can win a close game. It is uncommon for a teams to continually give up close games such as this. We have similar records to the Thunder and the Clippers, but they have lost some of their games by blowouts. We however, have lost the vast majority of our games by only a handful of points. How does this happen?

How can this problem be fixed with the pieces we have right now. Let's say no moves can be made outside of all the personnel we have. What do you guys think must be done or at least attempted to get this team to close out games? What do think are some of the main problems we face in the closing minutes? What do we stop doing to keep us in the game?

Mcfail-Twittman-McCants-Foye-whatever.

All should go in that order.

And something needs to be done about the defense.

twitmans inconsistancies.

The team is young. All the guys want to have great careers, and earn lots of money, get famous. This is a lot on these young guys minds, i know it would be on mine.
They are afraid 1 bad game will get them benched, and lets be honest, this has been true with the way wittman has chopped and changed the lineups.
So now you've got a group of young, nervous guys. They want to win, but they want to be the ones who win it. So they force shots. they gamble on d. they get benched. they're confidence waynes, and the cycle continues.

Couple tough losses have depleated their confidence, but not as much as the constant benching and fear of losing playing time.

why does the NBA disallow trading coaches?

they are part of the game too!

I'd trade Wittman to any other team for 1 assitant coach and a cheer leader =(

walchy wrote:twitmans inconsistancies.

The team is young. All the guys want to have great careers, and earn lots of money, get famous. This is a lot on these young guys minds, i know it would be on mine.
They are afraid 1 bad game will get them benched, and lets be honest, this has been true with the way wittman has chopped and changed the lineups.
So now you've got a group of young, nervous guys. They want to win, but they want to be the ones who win it. So they force shots. they gamble on d. they get benched. they're confidence waynes, and the cycle continues.

Couple tough losses have depleated their confidence, but not as much as the constant benching and fear of losing playing time.

100% agree

the team is young and wittman needs to let them play
we are still rebuilding but of course mchale thinks it only takes a few years to rebuild

Leadership is a big issue, both on and off the court.

This is where you miss a KG the most. His example of hard work, determination, and effort is not being demonstrated by those that are on the floor. Who is the leader? Jefferson? No doubt a great talent in the post on offense, but not sure he can get all the guys to rally around him. Foye? He doesn't even know what his position is supposed to be on the team, not that that is his fault entirely, but he isn't sure his role. Miller? He was supposed to be the vet leader, but it is still a new situation for him and the chemistry thing is being worked out. (seriously, 4 shots last night, sigh). McCants? He has been on the team about as long as or longer than anyone else, but seriously? I just don't see him as the team leader type. Madsen? Let's face it, good guy that rarely sees the floor or suits up. We need someone on the floor to take charge and it won't be him.

You can keep going through people but I doubt you find the leader. The ones listed are about as close as we have, and probably in that order. Still, none are really stepping up so though we have flashes of teamwork, it is mainly 5 guys out there playing primarily individually on both O and D. The offensive sets all seem about getting it to someone in isolation and let them do their thing, which is usually to make a move and chuck up a bad shot. We set bad screens, don't cut off them well, have poor pick and roll defense, and are bad help defenders. I mean there are a ton of things that can be nit-picked technically from a basketball side, but really, leadership, hustle, and an identity would go a long ways to fixing alot of problems.

Coaching. Leadership. Selfish play. Poorly assembled roster built to play 90s style ball in an era no longer suited for it. Poor conditioning. Undersized at virtually every position. Mind numbingly poor defense at times by everyone. Shooters who can't shoot. Al can't pass.

Winter Wonder, i agree with you. It sort of plays into my argument. We dont really have a veteran leader on or off the court at the moment. At least last year, we had Antoine Walker (yes yes, insert joke here) BUT he has won a title, he had averaged 20 and 10 for a few years, he knew the league. He was a stabilising presence for the team. Al jefferson is a great player, no doubt, BUT he is not old enough, nor has he been around the league long enough to know what to say, what to do, or how to pump up his team mates enough to break them out of this funk. Sure Walker is / was washed up, but he understood the league, and the small things that are involved with it.
And thats what this team needs, someone who can revitalise the team, with experience. Mike Miller isnt old enough to demand those things from this team. You need a former champ, jsut someone who (at least) appears to hte players as someone who is an emotional leader.

deeney0 wrote:Coaching. Leadership. Selfish play. Poorly assembled roster built to play 90s style ball in an era no longer suited for it. Poor conditioning. Undersized at virtually every position. Mind numbingly poor defense at times by everyone. Shooters who can't shoot. Al can't pass.

I think those two in bold might be the biggest reason. I don't buy this athlete thing, cause the Spurs aren't loaded with athletes by any means, but when you aren't conditioned the greatest and you are also undersized, that's not a good combo. You see how often loose balls and rebounds seem to just fall away from the Wolves in the fourth quarter that stick in the third and back. That tells me some fitness is lacking and when you are a little undersized that is a problem.

Also, this can be a consequence of going on a youth tangent and having so many guys 25 and under. If you can get W's and gain that confidence, it can work wonders in building your team later. But if those L's start to pile up, it's hard to break that trend and the team will start to find any way to lose games. Unfortunately for the Wolves, they chose the "build double digit leads and blow it" method of losing games. And the other unfortunate part of this is that this will wreak havoc on how opposing teams react when the Wolves build a lead. I guarantee you when Denver was down 12, they felt like they were probably leading. They knew, and I don't mean just a confidence in themselves, I mean they KNEW we would fall off and let them win. They knew it wouldn't be hard too. So know you can build these 12, 14 point leads and teams have still more confidence than we even have at that point. There is something incredibly wrong with that.

TMo519 wrote:
Also, this can be a consequence of going on a youth tangent and having so many guys 25 and under. If you can get W's and gain that confidence, it can work wonders in building your team later. But if those L's start to pile up, it's hard to break that trend and the team will start to find any way to lose games. Unfortunately for the Wolves, they chose the "build double digit leads and blow it" method of losing games. And the other unfortunate part of this is that this will wreak havoc on how opposing teams react when the Wolves build a lead. I guarantee you when Denver was down 12, they felt like they were probably leading. They knew, and I don't mean just a confidence in themselves, I mean they KNEW we would fall off and let them win. They knew it wouldn't be hard too. So know you can build these 12, 14 point leads and teams have still more confidence than we even have at that point. There is something incredibly wrong with that.

Great point. I agree that poor conditioning, bad shooting, bad defense, being undersized, lack of a defined pecking order after Al, bad coaching, etc. all play into it. However, I really think the biggest hinderance is the mind-set. You give away a bunch of big leads, it's psychologically hard to over come that and it gets worse every game. Had we been able to pull one out vs. Portland, San Antonio, etc., we'd probably have a few more wins.

Small point, but the whole being undersized thing actually leads to the underconditioning thing. They have to work harder for those boards and shots etc during the first 3, so come the fourth they are fatigued.
That being said, its because wittman will build a BIG lead in the 3rd. But he wont rest anyone who built that lead untill late inthe 4th.
If he builds a modest lead, and makes a SMART substitution or 2 with 3 minutes left in the third, instead of halfway through the fourth, or leaving them on the whole second half. Thats why we fade in the fourth.

Simply put, his rotations are ****.

TMo519 wrote:I think those two in bold might be the biggest reason. I don't buy this athlete thing, cause the Spurs aren't loaded with athletes by any means, but when you aren't conditioned the greatest and you are also undersized, that's not a good combo. You see how often loose balls and rebounds seem to just fall away from the Wolves in the fourth quarter that stick in the third and back. That tells me some fitness is lacking and when you are a little undersized that is a problem.

Not being athletic means more when you're undersized. Guys like Wade or a prime Ben Wallace can get away with being undersized because they have the ability to jump with bigger guys and have a huge quickness advantage. Gomes, Smith, Jefferson and Love don't have those advantages and it kills us.

deeney0 wrote:Coaching. Leadership. Selfish play. Poorly assembled roster built to play 90s style ball in an era no longer suited for it. Poor conditioning. Undersized at virtually every position. Mind numbingly poor defense at times by everyone. Shooters who can't shoot. Al can't pass.

You forgot new court and uniforms.

I think the first two are the biggest right now. Wittman's failures have been expounded on in other threads so I won't rehash that here. As for leadership, the team is young. Young teams historically have trouble closing out tight games, getting calls from refs, and losing their cool. That's just the way it is. For this team to get over the next hump, they need a vet leader to show them how to pace themselves and finish off teams. Theoretically, Miller could play this role but he hasn't come from winning organizations, so I'm not sure he knows what it takes either. We need a solid vet (doesn't have to be a superstar) from a winning team and, ideally, a PG who can be the floor general. Terry Porter used to play this role for the Wolves, someone like that would be great. Maybe Duhon?

Has Duhon ever played on a winning team aside from the 1 year on the Bulls?

Talent will keep you in games, coaching and leadership is what helps you pull out those games. We don't have either good coaching or good leadership right now.

Worm Guts wrote:Has Duhon ever played on a winning team aside from the 1 year on the Bulls?

The Knicks are 6-4 right now.

I don't know if Duhon is the answer either, just threw his name out there as an example of a vet PG that can play defense. I should have said a Duhon-type player. A new coach and PG has certainly helped NY this year, though.

and a new coach is what we need in this team. Wittman cant develop the team, and is obviously the wrong coach to have at this point for the franchise

^I was just about to post this as a separate thread, but it seems to fit here under the NY discussion:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/sport ... ref=slogin

This is a game story after a loss, and refers at least four times to the Knicks' style - uptempo, like the Suns ran when D'Antoni was there. Also see this quote -

'Jerome James missed the game for personal reasons, leaving the Knicks with 10 healthy players in uniform. But Coach Mike D’Antoni had James and Danilo Gallinari (sore back) on the active roster and Stephon Marbury on the inactive list, prompting the inevitable question about Marbury’s continued exile. “Hey, we can talk about it until I’m sure you guys are sick of it, too,” D’Antoni said, chuckling. “It is what it is.” '

D'Antoni in one offseason has given the Knicks a style, and maybe more importantly has defined each player's role within that style, to the point that the 2nd or 3rd most talented player on the roster has no role. Playing Marbury even 10-15 minutes per night would throw everyone else off.

Wittman is entering his third year as the Wolves coach. They have no defined style, and as was already said there is no pecking order or roles beyond Jefferson getting most of the post touches and McCants jacking up shots as a 6th man.

Coaching is the problem more than any other single factor, IMO.

That last bit about D'Antoni is all I need to see. It's what I've always thought and that is just another example. Good coaching can win a few games in this league, no matter how jacked up your roster is. 1-8 only happens with bad coaching IMO, specifically the way it has happened, with multiple collapses and screw ups late in games. It ain't like they've just been getting killed, just constantly shooting themselves in the foot, and looking confused out there half the time. Once again...I want Wittman gone.