RealGM

http://www.canishoopus.com/2009/1/6/710329/the-real-o-j


I am sure this thread could be fun.

I think he compares more to Ray Allen (better defense though) or Joe Johnson.

Could you explain Zeitgeister? Just making a blanket statement without providing some form of proof is not very valuable.

An interesting read. There are some definite parallels in both. I don't know enough about Mayo's defense or passing to make those type of comparisons. One thing I would say is Gordon is a legitimate 20ppg scorer and Mayo looks to be the same.

For a reasonable price and depending on how the draft and offseason shape up, Gordon would be an interesting player on the Wolves.

The only allen connection I see is that we traded him on draft night, but as far as Gordon goes, if that's the type of player he turns out to be after 2 or three years we made a great trade. I'm not a big Gordon fan at all.

I don't have a major beef with the article if you just go straight by the numbers. Mayo is a few inches taller and should ultimately become more of a playmaker and defender. Mayo still has the potential to become a future star where Ben Gordon's ceiling is more of a borderline All-Star and 2nd/3rd option on a good playoff team if he gets into the right situation.

As far as Ben Gordon is concerned, he would be a nice get in free agency esp if the Wolves can also grab a center and PG in the draft or in a trade. Everyone is crying over OJ Mayo but letting Chalmers go might be the mistake that comes back to haunt McHale from last summer. The only point I really disagree with is about holding onto Miller/Cardinal. There are a bunch of expiring contracts in 2010 so don't know how much value they will have especially with teams like the Knicks already having their capspace for the LeBron sweepstakes. Wolves might be better served to get as far under the cap as possible before the 2009 offseason where there will be limited teams in the market looking to add salary.

I'm bummed about the Mayo/Love trade, but I hope Mayo turns out like Gordon because that means the Wolves made the right deal. Gordon can score, but no team will ever win with him as a major option. He's over-rated, egotistical, and a ball pounder.

Eric Gordon
6' 1"
6' 2.25"
6' 8.5"
8' 3"

OJ Mayo
6' 3.25"
6' 4.25"
6' 6"
8' 3.5"


OJ may be 2 inches taller, but due to the wingspan his standing reach is almost the same.

Why do we think Mayo will be the better defender and playmaker? What has Mayo done to make you think he will be a playmaker?

revprodeji wrote: What has Mayo done to make you think he will be a playmaker?

He's been a playmaker on previous levels.

revprodeji wrote:Eric Gordon
6' 1"
6' 2.25"
6' 8.5"
8' 3"

OJ Mayo
6' 3.25"
6' 4.25"
6' 6"
8' 3.5"

SHRINK.... WHAT DID YOU DO WITH REV!?!?!?!

My only beef with the article is that I hate painting players into a box so early in their careers, particularly when they play on less than stellar teams. OJ looks like Ben now but is this his ceiling? IDK. Defense, passing, taking better shots - those are all things that a rookie can easily improve on. It depends on mental effort.

And I'm saying this as a somewhat-reserved defender of "the trade".

Worm Guts wrote:

revprodeji wrote: What has Mayo done to make you think he will be a playmaker?

He's been a playmaker on previous levels.

And Kevin Love was an inside scoring threat, and led the NCAA in shot blocking during the tourney. So what? Previous levels does not mean he has the tools to do it now. He is getting only 3 dimes a game with almost as many turnovers in 38 minutes. To compare, Randy foye had 2.8 ast with 1.8 TO in 23 min a game as a rookie.

Good catch peedee, but those are Ben Gordon's numbers.

revprodeji wrote:

Worm Guts wrote:

revprodeji wrote: What has Mayo done to make you think he will be a playmaker?

He's been a playmaker on previous levels.

And Kevin Love was an inside scoring threat, and led the NCAA in shot blocking during the tourney. So what? Previous levels does not mean he has the tools to do it now. He is getting only 3 dimes a game with almost as many turnovers in 38 minutes. To compare, Randy foye had 2.8 ast with 1.8 TO in 23 min a game as a rookie.

Unlike Love's shotblocking ability, there's no reason to think Mayo does not have the tools to be a playmaker on the NBA level. He'll have to prove it, but he has the potential to be one.

I don't know what OJ Mayo is going to become, but I hold the same caution towards people that say he's a certain NBA Superstar like Dwayne Wade as I do those that say he could end up Rashad McCants or Ricky Davis. The Wades don't come along very often, so he's most likely going to end going to up somewhere in the middle, and Ben Gordon is probably a good approximation ... you're a great scorer, now lets see what else you can do.

revprodeji wrote:

Worm Guts wrote:

revprodeji wrote: What has Mayo done to make you think he will be a playmaker?

He's been a playmaker on previous levels.

And Kevin Love was an inside scoring threat, and led the NCAA in shot blocking during the tourney. So what? Previous levels does not mean he has the tools to do it now. He is getting only 3 dimes a game with almost as many turnovers in 38 minutes. To compare, Randy foye had 2.8 ast with 1.8 TO in 23 min a game as a rookie.

Good catch peedee, but those are Ben Gordon's numbers.

Court awareness is not something that you lose going from level to level, and his passing skills can be improved upon, along with surrounding him with better shooters. Shot blocking is a function of length or athleticism and Love doesn't really have either of those at an elite level, so I don't like that comparison. OJ Mayo has been averaging just under 4 assists per game for a little over a month now after starting out around 2.3 assists per game, so that is definitely improving.

Ben Gordon will also cost a lot more in free agency, he's come off the bench for most of his career for a reason, he coincidentally is performing his best in his contract year, etc. OJ Mayo is in the very least, equal to Ben Gordon right now.

When you factor in defense, this comparison really doesn't work at all since again, Ben Gordon has come off the bench for most of his career for a reason and Mayo has been praised for his defensive effort. While Mayo certainly isn't great at that end yet, I think he's been the best 2-way player in the draft, thus far.

Thanks for the link. I'll second the question here about Mayo's potential as a facilitator/passer/defender. I don't know where this is coming from other than that is what was written about him during the build up to the draft. Here are Gordon's pre-draft measurements:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-dra ... &year=2004

w/o shoes: 6'1"
w shoes: 6'2.25"
wingspan: 6'8.5"
standing reach: 8'3"

I think wingspan and standing reach are pretty comparable to Mayo....or, at least they make up for the lost 2 inches from head to toe.

Theoretically, each guard who came into the league has the "tools" that Mayo has to be a playmaker/defender.

I think my main point with the article (other than setting up another article about the importance of rebounding and the differences in philosophy between building around scorers or rebounders, fast v slow, etc) was to show that Mayo is a very similar player to Gordon in terms of their style of play. They both rely on about 30% of their shots coming from beyond the arc with an awesome jump shot while not really doing much else above and beyond what you would expect from an average shooting guard. I don't mean it as a slight against Mayo but if Wolves fans are upset about the loss of Mayo, they could get a very similar player should the Wovles sign Gordon. Plus, they'd still have all of the other assets in the trade.

Worm Guts wrote:

revprodeji wrote: What has Mayo done to make you think he will be a playmaker?

He's been a playmaker on previous levels.

He was a point guard in high school, and he was going to be a point guard in college but Floyd wanted him to play off the ball to take advantage of his scoring.

Just making a blanket statement without providing some form of proof is not very valuable.

Then this thread, along with pretty much every other post on this subject, should have been aborted.

SSUBluesman wrote:

Just making a blanket statement without providing some form of proof is not very valuable.

Then this thread, along with pretty much every other post on this subject, should have been aborted.

The thread started off with sources and statistical comparison. Bitter?

The thread started off with sources and statistical comparison. Bitter?

No, it's the same **** as before. Bitter? Yea, I'm not the one creating a thread trying to compare Mayo to Gordon based on a silly stat analysis.

The dumbest idea ever doesn't become intellectual gold simply because someone else agrees with it.