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The bigger questions is should we be trading Miller. Even though he's not scoring, he's basically playing point forward on this team. Foye seems to really struggle at the point w/o Miller on the floor. I'd say of late our best lineup has been Foye, Carney, Miller, Love and Jefferson. And the point of moving him now as opposed to waiting is to free up 2009 cap space, for who? I hear Marvin Williams name but I've seen him a half dozen times this year and he has done nothing to impress me. I don't know what he is...he's not a big time scorer, not a shooter, not a ball handler, not a great defensive player, not a glue guy hustler or engery guy. Why is he going to be worth 11m a year? Because he's young and was the #2 pick in the draft. To me he's a slightly longer Ryan Gomes. (to be fair ATL runs absolutely no plays for the guy and his only shots come on kick outs or when the ball is rotated to him)

What are the differences with Williams and Miller? Would you be disappointed if we kept Miller rather and making a move for Williams?

I haven't seen enough of Williams in order to say who I like better but I think it would be fair to say that there is probably some untapped potential in Williams. Williams would probably come at the same price, if not higher than what Miller is currently getting. I would pay Williams $7-9 million per, but $10+ would be too much IMO for a third option kind of guy.

Half a season is not enough time for us to say Miller doesn't fit here. I think we need to give him more time with the new coach before we deem him a misfit.

We don't even necessarily have to go after Williams. I think having him here might stunt Brewer's growth a little bit. Corey had shown good improvement over last year before he got hurt. The fact that he's showing improvement wants me to see what he can become. Whereas with McCants where we saw basically no improvement, I don't want to wait and see what happens with him.

Joe Johnson in '10 looks much better.

Jefferson
Love
Johnson
Brewer
Foye

Johnson is a dominant on the ball guy which would allow Randy to continue playing off the ball.

Off the top of my head:

Miller over Williams:
-Passing
-Historically more consistent 3 point shot, though Marvin is shooting better from distance than him this year
-Beyond 2010, should cost less than Williams
-From Minnesota. Depending on what/who you want to believe, wants to be here.

Even:
-Rebounding
-Winners in college, losers in the NBA

Williams over Miller:
-Age. Williams fits with our guys in their early 20s
-Defensive potential
-Quicker, more athletic, better in transition
-Upside. Williams is getting better, Miller doesn't have much room left to grow as a player

Miller is aging and going through a huge slump. Long term if Miller expires, he gets resigned as a career role player sparkplug to finish his career. A Bones Barry type. SGs do not age well, but if Mike can accept his role, that shooter off the bench would be invaluable.

Im in favor of Williams bacuase of his athleticism, age, he is starting on a nice team in the east, and I could see a guy like him coming here and growing with this team. He is a nice longe term answer at that position.

I agree with anyone who said 10 mm is too much. It would have to be a reasonable deal...and any reasonable deal is likely to be matched by Atlanta. Thats why a sign and trade involing Gomes and picks may be in order.

TheFranchise21 wrote:I haven't seen enough of Williams in order to say who I like better but I think it would be fair to say that there is probably some untapped potential in Williams. Williams would probably come at the same price, if not higher than what Miller is currently getting. I would pay Williams $7-9 million per, but $10+ would be too much IMO for a third option kind of guy.

Half a season is not enough time for us to say Miller doesn't fit here. I think we need to give him more time with the new coach before we deem him a misfit.

We don't even necessarily have to go after Williams. I think having him here might stunt Brewer's growth a little bit. Corey had shown good improvement over last year before he got hurt. The fact that he's showing improvement wants me to see what he can become. Whereas with McCants where we saw basically no improvement, I don't want to wait and see what happens with him.

Joe Johnson in '10 looks much better.

Jefferson
Love
Johnson
Brewer
Foye

Johnson is a dominant on the ball guy which would allow Randy to continue playing off the ball.

Joe Johnson does look way better, but please don't have him at small forward. He can take Brewer's spot or just interchange them.

As much as I would like to have Johnson on this team I don't want to see Foye continue to be moved around every 25 games. I want to see if the Thunder end up landing Griffin and are forced to explore trades for Green.

I think this team really, really benefits from Miller's ball handling and passing ability. To me, Williams is essentially a slightly better, younger version of Gomes. They're both set shooters that do not create their own offense. Miller creates. Without a top flight PG, and with Foye being better off the ball, our offense would suffer sans Miller. Miller's shot will begin to fall. If I remember correctly Ray Allen lost his shot for most of the year last year (he also had ankle problems), until he found it in the playoffs. This year he continues to be lights out. Miller will find his shot. And when he does this debate will seem laughable.

theGreatRC wrote:

TheFranchise21 wrote:I haven't seen enough of Williams in order to say who I like better but I think it would be fair to say that there is probably some untapped potential in Williams. Williams would probably come at the same price, if not higher than what Miller is currently getting. I would pay Williams $7-9 million per, but $10+ would be too much IMO for a third option kind of guy.

Half a season is not enough time for us to say Miller doesn't fit here. I think we need to give him more time with the new coach before we deem him a misfit.

We don't even necessarily have to go after Williams. I think having him here might stunt Brewer's growth a little bit. Corey had shown good improvement over last year before he got hurt. The fact that he's showing improvement wants me to see what he can become. Whereas with McCants where we saw basically no improvement, I don't want to wait and see what happens with him.

Joe Johnson in '10 looks much better.

Jefferson
Love
Johnson
Brewer
Foye

Johnson is a dominant on the ball guy which would allow Randy to continue playing off the ball.

Joe Johnson does look way better, but please don't have him at small forward. He can take Brewer's spot or just interchange them.

Yeah I debated which one to put where, and it came down to Johnson being more beefy so I put Brewer at the 2 but really it could have gone either way around.

I agree with Wally World and Dr. Krapinsky. I think Williams could be a nice player given his age and athleticism. At the same time Miller has shown he can help even when his shot isn't falling. I don't want to overpay for Williams either.

Assuming we decide we're not going to get enough value to unload Miller and Cardinal before trade deadline:

Would it make sense to deal a couple of our expirings to atlanta for speedy c. and a couple picks (2009 & 2011 protected firsts for example)?

Without speedy, atlanta will probably be able to re-sign both marvin and bibby (not sure if they'd need to renounce Childress to be able to do it).
We keep Miller & Cardinal, add a first or two, and still have exception(s) to use to sign free agent(s), and it won't do much to affect our position in 2010 free agency

Biff Cooper wrote:Assuming we decide we're not going to get enough value to unload Miller and Cardinal before trade deadline:

Would it make sense to deal a couple of our expirings to atlanta for speedy c. and a couple picks (2009 & 2011 protected firsts for example)?

Without speedy, atlanta will probably be able to re-sign both marvin and bibby (not sure if they'd need to renounce Childress to be able to do it).
We keep Miller & Cardinal, add a first or two, and still have exception(s) to use to sign free agent(s), and it won't do much to affect our position in 2010 free agency

Checking trade checker, Jason Collins would trade for Speedy. Atlanta could probably use him in their playoff run this year. Throw in a couple picks for us and it may make sense?

how the hell are you supposed argue with a guy named "Biff?"

i keed Beef, I keed.

Anyone remember the fits Marvin gave to the Celtics in last years play-offs? I still like Marvin Williams becoming a Timberwolf....Maybe his stat sheet looks blah-zay cause of all the talent he is surrounded by. Anyway I hope he is not dismissed for a run with the Timberwolves, That dude just sticks out in my mind from last years play-offs.

Biff Cooper wrote:Checking trade checker, Jason Collins would trade for Speedy. Atlanta could probably use him in their playoff run this year. Throw in a couple picks for us and it may make sense?

FOR ME TO POOP ON!

I don't get the Williams hype that wolves fans have.

Calinks3 wrote:I don't get the Williams hype that wolves fans have.

Thank you, Cal.

I knew I wasn't the only one.

I feel better now.

revprodeji wrote:

The bigger questions is should we be trading Miller. Even though he's not scoring, he's basically playing point forward on this team. Foye seems to really struggle at the point w/o Miller on the floor. I'd say of late our best lineup has been Foye, Carney, Miller, Love and Jefferson. And the point of moving him now as opposed to waiting is to free up 2009 cap space, for who? I hear Marvin Williams name but I've seen him a half dozen times this year and he has done nothing to impress me. I don't know what he is...he's not a big time scorer, not a shooter, not a ball handler, not a great defensive player, not a glue guy hustler or engery guy. Why is he going to be worth 11m a year? Because he's young and was the #2 pick in the draft. To me he's a slightly longer Ryan Gomes. (to be fair ATL runs absolutely no plays for the guy and his only shots come on kick outs or when the ball is rotated to him)

What are the differences with Williams and Miller? Would you be disappointed if we kept Miller rather and making a move for Williams?

Who's quote is this?

He's actually ALL of those things. He's playing on a team with a very good point guard who does a lot of work with the ball in his hands, and then you have Joe Johnson who's a ball dominant guard as well who makes a lot of things happen when it's in his hands.

And NO ONE has said anything about paying him 11mil a year, it gets a little annoying when idiots make up their own quotes to fulfill their agenda. From now on I'm going to argue every pro-Hinrich or pro-Dalembert thread with how stupid I think it is to trade Al Jefferson, Kevin Love, and our 1st round pick for them, "just like everyone keeps suggesting".

Being the #2 pick in the draft means absolutely nothing the day after the draft.

The guys is 6'9" 240 pounds, brings much needed size to our line-up, he has range, he's long, plays good defense on the perimeter, has a VERY high basketball IQ, can put the ball on the floor, can get to the cup, passes well, and he's 22 years old. His age fits in with the rest of our team. We're probably 2 years away from being a serious threat in the play-offs, by then Miller will be 31, and unless he takes a major pay-cut, Marvin Williams will be the much better value because considering the economy and the salary cap, we can probably get the MUCH younger Marvin Williams for 8mil per. Mike Bibby's and Joe Johnson's free agency forces Atlanta's hand.

Also, by making that move this now, our draft pick owed to the Clippers becomes a late lottery, probably around 14th, and we give it up next year, and I think the thought is next year's draft is even weaker other than the top 2-3 picks, depending on who stays from this year's class. Plus that saves us money going into 2010 where we can sign yet another player and are a more attractive destination because we have a core built. If we package the Utah and Miami picks and move up to get Evans, while grabbing Thabeet with our pick, we have a great supporting cast to bring in a good Shooting Guard, and that moves Foye to 6th man, thus improving our bench.

C - Thabeet/Love
PF - Jefferson/(FA/Pick)
SF - Williams/Gomes
SG - FA/Brewer
PG - Evans/Foye

Ok, and now after reading this again, I realize it was an old thread being popped back up. Ignore me.

Old thread or not Williams is all of what John has posted, aquiring him is a no-brainer if it's possible.

theGreatRC wrote:

Calinks3 wrote:I don't get the Williams hype that wolves fans have.

Thank you, Cal.

I knew I wasn't the only one.

I feel better now.

Put me in this boat as well.