Telfair > Dirk?

[shrink]

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/mark-cu ... mbers-580/

Earlier this week, Cuban posted to his blog a list of the 30 NBA players who have the biggest positive impact on their teams when they’re in the game. They were ranked by a measure inspired by hockey’s plus/minus statistic, reflecting how well a team does with a player on the court, after accounting for the other players on the court with him. Cuban’s plus/minus adjusts for how good the team is without the player on the court as well as for the opponent and for game situations

Kidd and three of the other top 10 players on Cuban’s list won’t be playing at the All-Star Game Sunday in Phoenix: the Philadelphia 76ers’ Andre Iguodala, the Charlotte Bobcats’ Emeka Okafor and Randy Foye of the Minnesota Timberwolves. Kidd ranked second on the list; Devin Harris, whom Dallas traded to New Jersey to acquire Kidd and is a 2009 All-Star, didn’t make the cut. The numbers didn’t favor all Mavs: Nowitzki ranked 23rd, behind Minnesota reserve Sebastian Telfair.
...

He sent along spreadsheets defending some of the more-controversial rankings — showing, for instance, that the Mavericks have played 180 minutes with Kidd on the court and Nowitzki off it, and they’re five points better than usual in those scenarios. Flip the scenario by removing Kidd while leaving Nowitzki in the game, and the Mavericks are five points worse than usual. Meanwhile, the T-Wolves are at least average in just about any lineup that includes Telfair, but subpar without him.

[Krapinsky]

I don't like the +/- stat for judging how good a player is. There's too many variables. Largely it depends on how good the replacement player is on the team (roster depth).

[Calinks]

I have always disliked the +/- numbers. I mean, they just seem stupid at times.

[revprodeji]

I think there is value in them, but only in large portions. Like any stat, we cant use them on their own.

[Worm Guts]

I think there is value in them, but only in large portions. Like any stat, we cant use them on their own.

That's basically how I feel.

[revprodeji]

We need to sticky this thread. As much as I respect your opinion, and I hope you know I do, we hardly ever outright see eye to eye.

[john2jer]

I think there is value in them, but only in large portions. Like any stat, we cant use them on their own.

That's basically how I feel.

Alright you two, eneough fighting, back to your seperate corners until you can BOTH relax.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Telfair has some nice skills, but I suspect there are a lot of true PGs that would've had the same impact. Kevin Ollie was good too. The alternative this season wasd Foye at PG, and with the shooting struggles he's had to start this season, I'm sure his plus/minus is a nightmare at PG.

I don't think Foye is any better at SG than PG, he's just extremely streaky and he happened to hit his hot streak while at SG. Last year was the opposite, his PG numbers outweighed his SG numbers.

[horaceworthy]

I'm with you on that one, Devilz. I also think it helps for him to play with another player that can break down a defense off the dribble, so that he doesn't have to worry about being the only guy that can get shots for other people.

[shrink]

I don't think Foye is any better at SG than PG, he's just extremely streaky and he happened to hit his hot streak while at SG. Last year was the opposite, his PG numbers outweighed his SG numbers.

Interesting point, because I think Foye is a lot more valuable if he can be a big PG rather than an under-sized SG. Perhaps paiting him with Miller, and allowing Miller's passing, and maybe bringing the ball up the floor occasionally, can help Foye with his PG responsibilities. I just want to see him playing with confidence.