RealGM

A CHI fan on the trade board is floating the idea of swapping Derrick Rose for Blake Griffin, because it would do such a good job balancing their roster. I thought, if we got Griffin, "Same here."

Personally, I think Rose > Griffin, even though Rose will get his max deal a year earlier. I have my doubts whether CHI's front office would entertain the deal, but if it was on the table, would you grab it? If so, what would you offer in addition if it was necessary to seal the deal?

As far as rosters are concerned it should balance out. Rose surely has more value, but I think Griffin may be the better player in the long run to build a team around. While rose will certainly be more dominant at his position.

I think most MN fans this is an easy yes because of Al\Love, while every Bulls fan declines.

Definite yes per MN, as Bruce describes. As for additions from MN, Boston or Utah picks are easy adds. I may consider adding in the Miami pick instead (ya, would do that).

CHI would most likely not do it. They already have the player and he is a known commodity, he will have been with the team for a year and proven his stock, he is basically the face of the franchise and fans would hate losing the home grown player, and he may have more physical tools for his position (against other PG's) than Griffin does at his position (against other PF's).

Regardless, I don't think MN could sweeten the pot enough that both teams would be happy with the deal. Then again, I am not sure exactly what Chicago would be looking for...

I'd trade all of our picks this year for Derrick Rose.

Personally: Griffin>Rose. There is a lot of unknown potential in both of them. I'd probably do the trade straight up to balance out the rosters, but wouldn't give them anything in value in addition.

deeney0 wrote:I'd trade all of our picks this year for Derrick Rose.

Me too. I'd probably through in almost any player not named Al or Kevin if necessary, who they wouldn't need anyway since they'd have a PF in Griffin.

I would throw in Telfair perhaps to give them a solid backup for Hinrich, but thats about it.

Chi
Noah / Miller / Smith
Griffin / TT
Deng / Salmons / TT
Gordon / Salmons
Hinrich / Telfair

That looks pretty sweet for CHI. A little older, but ready to make a legit run next year.

Min
Jefferson / Love / Mullens?, Jordan?
Love / Smith
Brewer / Gomes
Foye / Miler
Rose / Foye

How about instead make this trade with Chicago:

Min In: Rose, Brad Miller
Min Out: Jefferson, Foye, Telfair

and this trade with the Nets:

Min In: Brook Lopez, Ager
Min Out: Love


Giving the wolves a balanced line-up something like:

Lopez - B. Miller
Griffin - Cardinal - Smith
M. Miller - Gomes
Brewer - Carney
Rose - Brown - Ollie

Of course they'd have to get rid of McHale and everyone else in the organization who hates to play centers, but this looks like a team with an actual future.

mandurugo wrote:How about instead make this trade with Chicago:

Min In: Rose, Brad Miller
Min Out: Jefferson, Foye, Telfair

and this trade with the Nets:

Min In: Brook Lopez, Ager
Min Out: Love


Giving the wolves a balanced line-up something like:

Lopez - B. Miller
Griffin - Cardinal - Smith
M. Miller - Gomes
Brewer - Carney
Rose - Brown - Ollie

Of course they'd have to get rid of McHale and everyone else in the organization who hates to play centers, but this looks like a team with an actual future.

This is spectacular and the value isn't that far off, but I still don't think the Bulls do it, maybe not the Nets either.

I like mandurugo's deals, but I don't see New Jersey pulling the trigger. Chicago...maybe they do.
I'd think a simple deal like this would help both sides:

MIN OUT: Foye, Smith, Rights to Griffin
MIN IN: Rose

CHI OUT: Rose
CHI IN: Foye, Smith, Rights to Griffin

Works salary wise. It's a hefty price, but well worth it, IMO. Balances our roster marvelously and honestly I don't think we have a shot at Rose with anything less than that.

I would do that deal big.

But do they want Foye? Maybe a draft pick is better.

Well, I was trying to make salaries match, too. I'd even through a pick in on top of that, but that's an awful lot. I could see why some Wolves fans wouldn't.

*edit*

I also figured with no assurance as to what Ben Gordon will do and with Rose leaving in this deal, Foye would be an ideal candidate to come in for Chicago and have a 3 man rotation with Salmons and Hinrich.

big3_8_19_21 wrote:Well, I was trying to make salaries match, too. I'd even through a pick in on top of that, but that's an awful lot. I could see why some Wolves fans wouldn't.

*edit*

I also figured with no assurance as to what Ben Gordon will do and with Rose leaving in this deal, Foye would be an ideal candidate to come in for Chicago and have a 3 man rotation with Salmons and Hinrich.

Doesn't the rights to Griffin have a slotted salary attached to it that should match fairly closely with Rose's??
I think you are overrating Rose. He is a very skilled / nice player with a bunch of potential, but he's still got plenty of flaws.

Biff Cooper wrote:I think you are overrating Rose. He is a very skilled / nice player with a bunch of potential, but he's still got plenty of flaws.

You could say the exact same thing about Jefferson, Foye, or Griffin.

if he's not signed, I don't believe his draft rights carry any amount of "salary"

big3_8_19_21 wrote:if he's not signed, I don't believe his draft rights carry any amount of "salary"

This is how I understand it as well. It makes sense too, because even after you draft the "rights" to a player at, say #5, the specific salary scale still allows a team to give between 80%-to-$120% of that value. Once they sign a contract though, that's his value.

This might make it easier for a team to shave salary. Suppose WAS wanted to trade its pick to turn a $6 mil player into an expiring, and he was due a contract around $3 mil. If they don't sign the contract before the trade (player + rights), they only have to take $4.72 mil back .. and so clear $1.2 mil in TPE. If they signed him to the contract, the other team has to match $9 mil, so $7.12. As you can see, taking back $4.72 rather than paying $9 is a much better savings.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but it seems flawed that a draftee counts as a cap hold against your salary cap, but doesn't count as anything in matching salaries in a trade.

AQuintus wrote:

Biff Cooper wrote:I think you are overrating Rose. He is a very skilled / nice player with a bunch of potential, but he's still got plenty of flaws.

You could say the exact same thing about Jefferson, Foye, or Griffin.

Yes I agree.

So evidently you want to give up Griffin, Foye, Smith, and a number 1 draft pick for Rose as well? Rose is playing on a team that looks stacked with talent, yet they'll be lucky to hold onto a playoff spot. You can argue that +/- is a flawed statistic, but he is -86 for the season. Compare that to Hinrich who is almost +200.
Like I said earlier, I would probably trade Rose for Griffin because I rate them similarly to slightly favoring Griffin. However, throwing in anything of value beyond that seems to be overvaluing Rose (or undervaluing Griffin).

Biff Cooper wrote:Yes I agree.

So evidently you want to give up Griffin, Foye, Smith, and a number 1 draft pick for Rose as well?

Yes, I probably would, but I'm not sure where you got that from the post you quoted.
I'm also not sure where you got the idea that another 1st round pick would be included, Griffin would be the Wolves' 1st.

You can argue that +/- is a flawed statistic, but he is -86 for the season. Compare that to Hinrich who is almost +200.

Yes, I could argue that +/- is flawed, and I'd do so by mentioning that Jefferson is also at -86, Foye is at -165, Love is at -276, and Brian Cardinal is at +26 (Cardinal and Booth are the only Wolves in the positive).

Like I said earlier, I would probably trade Rose for Griffin because I rate them similarly to slightly favoring Griffin. However, throwing in anything of value beyond that seems to be overvaluing Rose (or undervaluing Griffin).

They are similar as prospects, except that Griffin is a little undersized for his position and Rose isn't. The biggest difference between them is that Rose has proven that he can produce at the NBA level and Griffin hasn't, and that's why we would have to add value.

The trade was from Big_3's message a while back in this thread.

Supposedly Griffin is 6-10. Even if Oklahoma is stretching it and he's really 6-9, I don't see how that's undersized for a PF - particularly when he's obviously muscular.

You say it adds value to Rose to see what he's done in the NBA this year. Here is the question - Based on what we've seen this year, will Rose ever be one of the ten best players in the NBA? You can disagree, but from what I've seen, the answer is no, and we have a ceiling on his potential. Griffin on the other hand, we know less about him in the NBA, and less about what his ceiling might be. You can definitely say there is less risk in Rose, but that doesn't mean there's more value.