The thread where I talk about not giving up on Randy Foye

[deeney0]

I think maybe I've been watching too much playoffs basketball, but I don't think there is any reason why Randy Foye still can't become Chauncey Billups.

They have a lot of similarities, both physically and statistically - and it's no surprise that Billups was one of the main pre-draft comparisons tossed around for Foye. It took Chauncey 6-7 season to develop into an elite point guard, during which five teams (including the Wolves) gave up on him. I'd hate to give up on Foye and see the same thing happen. I'm just going to toss some first-three-seasons numbers out there, and if I'm way off base somebody set me straight.

Looking at their first three seasons (the third for Chauncey is unfortunately the lockout, but it will have to suffice), Randy nudges Chauncey in shooting stats: FG% (CB: .37, .39, .34 RF: .43, .43, .41), 3P% (CB: .33, .36, .17 RF: .37, .41, .36), 2P% (CB: .41, .41, .45 RF: .46, .46, .43), eFG% (CB: .45, .47, .37 RF: .48, .49, .46), PPS (CB: 1.19, 1.26, 1.11 RF: 1.20, 1.10, 1.26). Not surprisingly, this leads to similar PP48 (CB: 19.3, 20.1, 17.6 RF: 21.3, 19.4, 21.9) Similar number of minutes and FGA the first two years, third year has a discrepancy there because of the lockout. Similar RP48 (CB: 4.1, 3.1, 5.4 RF: 5.6, 4.9, 4.1) as well.

Chauncey got to the line more, though. FTAP48 (CB: 5.8, 5.5, 6.9 RF: 4.9, 2.5, 5.2). This is important - everyone on this team not named Kevin of Craig does a crap job of getting to the line.

And now the PG stats. Similar AP48 (CB: 6.8, 5.6, 6.1 RF: 5.9, 6.3, 5.8) and TOP48 (CB: 3.8, 3.2, 3.8 RF: 3.9, 3.0, 2.9) and thusly similar A/TO (CB: 1.8, 1.8, 1.6 RF: 1.5, 2.1, 2.0). The one area Chauncey clearly edges Foye is steals (per 48 CB: 2.3, 1.9, 1.6 RF: 1.4, 1.4, 1.4) but Chauncey's steals actually went down later in his career as he got better at defense; he was probably gambling far too much those first couple seasons.

[Worm Guts]

One thing to keep in mind with your comparison is that Foye was a full 2 years older than Billups when he entered the league, so I'm not sure it's fair to make comparisons on their first 3 seasons.

[john2jer]

I do love that we're regressing our expectations, though. Wasn't he supposed to be a left chested Dwayne Wade originally?

[Krapinsky]

Well, I like your arguement, and luckily we'll have one more year to decide on this before we have to resign him. But really after this year I'm just not going to buy it anymore.

I still don't think he should prevent us from drafting the best back court player available though. You have to realize Billups is quite the anomalie. For every Chauncey Billups, there's five or six players that show flashes but never put it together.

[tvwolves7]

It took Chauncey 6-7 season to develop into an elite point guard, during which five teams (including the Wolves) gave up on him.

I personally do not think we gave up on him, that would entail us not matching an offer. We just did not give him the starting position outright which was the right thing to do at the time. You had an over the top efficient pg in Brandon who had a large contract.

[Zeitgeister]

This is the thread where I talk about me not holding my breath waiting for Randy Foye to break out. He's in his prime now. Chauncey Billiups was a unique situation and just because Randy Foye is about the same size, doesn't mean they are similar.

When his contract expires, look to sign him to a cheap contract that would reflect him being the sixth man on our team. If he won't sign for that, let him walk. He'd be a good backup guard but he's a liability as a starter.

[Esohny]

I have to agree with that. We can complain ad nauseum about the Foye-Roy trade, but we may as well get comfortable with what we have: a solid scoring 2-guard to come off the bench who can handle the ball a bit. Pay him 6-man money and cross your fingers that he outplays his contract.

[deeney0]

I still don't think he should prevent us from drafting the best back court player available though.

Oh, God no. I've done my best in other threads to state If it were up to me we wouldn't draft a single post player this year. Right now you can't pencil in Randy for anything more than 6th man on a good team. But I still have hope.

I personally do not think we gave up on him, that would entail us not matching an offer. We just did not give him the starting position outright which was the right thing to do at the time. You had an over the top efficient pg in Brandon who had a large contract.

They didn't retain him, ergo they gave up on him. The reasons are irrelevant.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I still want to keep him on the team, but there's still a bunch of player's I'd consider trading him for, and I'd probably trade him for a lotto pick if the right player was available. I'd probably trade him for Lawson, Teague, maybe Flynn or Curry, I'd have to give it more thought.

[the_bruce]

Anyone remember the DET game where Foye Played out of his mind. The game where they cut the play book down. What happened to the floater he developed last season, I never saw it this year. We've all seen the kid do so many things well in a game, but it is rarely in the same game.

I don't think the way he plays compares to billups very well or wade, or anyone for that matter. I've never come up with a good comparison for Foye. I'd be tempted to say Cassell if he started bringing the ball up the court to the ole step into 3, played only pg, and used his midrange game more.

He can't be a scoring PG if he is given the "distributer role", he isn't ideal size for SG defensively and has some troubles with faster 1's defensively. Foye is a great spot up shooter, with very good playmaking abilities so there's always a place for guys like that on teams. I'd prefer not to trade him, but would be more than willing to in the right deal.

Worst case scenario is the wolves offer him to much money, best case is he gets underpayed and further develops his game. Barring a breakout season and depending on his play this year... As long as he gets 5-7m a year I'd be fairly content.

[theGreatRC]

Foye has never been a high percentage shooter, and I don't see that changing

[john2jer]

He shot about 40% from 3pt last year.

[collin_k41]

Foye is supposed to be a penetrator. That's what killed his shooting % last year is that he'd never finish on his drives. What happened to the super rainbow layups right over some of the best shot-blockers in the league? It doesn't help that he gets hammered every time he drives but it happens so adjust. He's not a great jump shooter but decent enough. He shouldn't be relying on it like he did last year. Like I said before he's gotta learn how to finish at the rim again. Once he does that he'll draw more defenders so he can dish and people will play off him on the perimeter to give him better shots. I think we're all in agreement that he'll never be what people thought he could be(wade) or even close but I still have hope that he could be a decent starter. The unclarity of his true position hurts him. If he's a SG then he's a 6th man. If he can show he still has point guard skills(he does) and shows development it's a different story. He pisses me off sometimes and if he doesn't pick it up next year I say just let him go. I still have hope though and think he could become a decent asset to this team.

Looking back, should we have traded him for Allen Iverson???

[JR Rider]

I don't want to give up on Foye. But, I think wolves fan share this sentiment that he is not the perennial all-star or 2nd option on a championship calibur team that we had hoped he might become in the future. I am still a fan of Foye, but his ceiling is probably a little bit lower than I had originally hoped.

By no means should we give up on him, but its fair to evaluate him as a fringe 2, or a great 6th man. Rather than something more.

[theGreatRC]

His % have never been good even since college.

[Krapinsky]

His % have never been good even since college.

What about during that two week stretch in January!!!

[Jonathan Watters]

Just wait until they reverse his reversed innards! You all will see!

FWIW, I don't even know what "giving up" on a player from a fan's perspective even means. If he plays well, we cheer him on. If he plays poorly, we acknowledge it.

Foye has proven that he can be a productive player in the NBA - he's just not the franchise savior many thought he was destined to be.

The whole Randy Foye as a franchise player concept was doomed from the start. Nobody outside of Minnesota ever thought he was that.

But giving up on him as a player and as a piece of Minnesota's future seems just as foolish...

[john2jer]

I think most people are coming to the realization that he's a good 6th man, a combo guard off the bench like Jason Terry or Ben Gordon. It's just unfortunate we don't have two starters that are guards and better than him.

[Calinks]

I haven't given up on him at all. I'm not banking my future on the guy but I think that once he gets some consistency he will be a good player. How could anyone say Foye is in his prime? NBA players usually don't hit their prime until the late 20's. Most NBA players don't hit their prime in 3 years of experience either.

Foye needs to become a better finisher at the rim. That alone would make him dramatically better. He's not going to get many calls until he and the team earn some respect. I remember that game he had against Dwane Wade. They were going toe to toe the whole time. Foye had nearly the same points but all of his were from made buckets. Wade had a handful from FT's. Free throws are what gets player to average big scoring numbers.

Foye needs to develop and use his mid range game more often too. This year it was all open three or unsuccessful drive. That needs to change. He has a lot to work on but he can just get that consistency, if he can get trained by the right people (I swear we can't develop guards/Forwards around here), worst case scenario is that he could be a great sixth man. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. If you are trying to build a championship team, you need all the great pieces you can get.

Foye shouldn't concern himself so much with being a 20PPG and 6APG player. He should work on the things to make him consistent and start off as a dependable 16 PPG and 4 APG player. That is what he averaged this season but if he could do it more efficiently he would be fine.

[Wingman]

I'd probably trade him for Lawson, Teague, maybe Flynn or Curry, I'd have to give it more thought.