Interesting discussion on Trade Board

[Vindicater]

Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Al Thornton, Chris Kaman, Sean Williams, Devin Harris, future MIN 1st (returned)
Outgoing Players: Randy Foye, Ryan Gomes, Kevin Love, Brian Cardinal, #6
MIN assembles a young and talented core to contend.

This was a section from a recent trade that someone posted on the trade board, I didnt bother putting the rest of the trade in because from the other teams reactions to the trade it would never go through, but there was discussion on the Wolves side of it as people were sitting on both sides of the fence on this.

Gopher It and I seemed to be the main protagonists, with Gopher saying he would not do this trade and myself saying I was all for it. We managed to raise some good points for both sides in our discussion so Gophr suggested I bring this over to the main Wolves board for other people to discuss.

So... would you do this trade?

[AQuintus]

I'd probably do it without Kaman and Thornton + whatever salary filler is coming from the Wolves, but not with them.

[wolves_fan_82au]

Interresting trade idea

c-Kaman
pf-Jefferson
sf-Thornton
sg-Brewer
pg-Harris

it doesnt look to bad

[Vindicater]

I'd probably do it without Kaman and Thornton + whatever salary filler is coming from the Wolves, but not with them.

I can understand not wanting Kaman (due to his contract and injury problems) but why not Thornton? The kid averaged 17 and 5 this season and was probably the only reason the clippers managed to break double figure wins? Hes not perfect but hes better then what we have now.

I can't see how we could turn this down. We are constantly moaning on these boards about not having a good point guard. Harris is about to enter the elite class of point guard.

Harris averaged 21ppg, 7 apg, 3rpg and 1.5spg last season.

This trade keeps us young, makes us better and still leaves us with some capspace in 2010 to sign a vet to round out the roster with.

I think this trade is good for us but if Kaman comes back healthy then this just becomes a steal for us.

[AQuintus]

I can understand not wanting Kaman (due to his contract and injury problems) but why not Thornton? The kid averaged 17 and 5 this season and was probably the only reason the clippers managed to break double figure wins?

I wouldn't want Thornton because he's an old, overrated, no-defense chucker who hurts his team more than he helps it. To me, he comes off exactly like his teammates Ricky Davis and Zach Randolph in that regard.

Hes not perfect but hes better then what we have now.

I disagree with this. He may be good on offense, but I'd say that Brewer (and Gomes) is better on O than Thornton is on D, and Brewer (and Gomes) helps his team in more ways than Thornton does.

[Esohny]

To be fair, Thornton is 25 and still on his rookie contract. He shot just below 45% from the field to get his 17/game, but was hurt by his terrible 3 point shooting (25% down from 31 career). He also got to the line 4.5 times a game and made 75% of foul shots. This is despite being on the Clippers, where players go to die.

His defense is certainly debatable, although it's hard to single out his play when the Clippers defense was so dismal overall.

So, I think he's a talented guy who would need to improve his 3-point shooting to become a taller, better rebounding Richard Jefferson(Thornton shoots better overall since he's better closer to the basket), who some have suggested we trade for, although Jefferson literally makes more than 7 times as much and is almost 29.

I wouldn't mind him on our team, especially if we still had Brewer to split minutes at the SF spot.

[Esohny]

That said, I'd still be on the fence with this trade because of Kaman and Williams.

[revprodeji]

I do not like it, but I do not like Kaman or Thornton to be fair. But I would not like this trade. We give up 2 foundational pieces, 2 quality role players, and a giant expiring. Stupid deal.

[Vindicater]

I do not like it, but I do not like Kaman or Thornton to be fair. But I would not like this trade. We give up 2 foundational pieces, 2 quality role players, and a giant expiring. Stupid deal.

Yet I can counter that

We get the best player in the trade (Harris) who also happens to fill a need.
We get 2 Better roleplayers back in Kaman and Thornton (this is where you and me disagree Rev )
We get our 1st round pick back from the clippers.

THe only hangup I have about this trade is the injury concerns over Kaman. IM willing to take that risk though

[Krapinsky]

Bad trade all around. Kaman is terrible and an injury concern - he may have negative value at this point. Thornton is just terrible. A player that will always make his team worse. Harris would be marginalized by playing if an offense centered around Jefferson and Kaman.

Love + #6 + Foye + Gomes is a ton to give up.

[JR Rider]

I will pass on this trade in a heartbeat. Devin Harris is not good enough to justify giving up all of that, and I am not particularly enamored with any of those other pieces. Thanks, but no thanks.

[revprodeji]

screw injury. Kaman has a horrible contract, makes Al look all-defense and does not produce when playing with another post option.

Thornton has been a ball hog since college. These guys do not make this team better.

I like Harris. But the other guys do not belong on my team.

[TheFranchise21]

I do not like it, but I do not like Kaman or Thornton to be fair. But I would not like this trade. We give up 1 foundational piece, 3 quality role players, and a giant expiring. Stupid deal.

Fixed.

Kaman's contract makes me turn away from this one.

[Vindicater]

Bad trade all around. Kaman is terrible and an injury concern - he may have negative value at this point. Thornton is just terrible. A player that will always make his team worse. Harris would be marginalized by playing if an offense centered around Jefferson and Kaman.

Love + #6 + Foye + Gomes is a ton to give up.

I dont agree with anything in this post apart from Kaman being injury prone.

When Healthy Kaman is a top ten centre in this leauge and would be the best centre MInnesota has EVER had.

Why is Thornton terrible? How does he make his team worse? Your basing this on what? The clippers? Griffin is gonna be horrible then and make his team worse (I know that comparison is hopeless but claiming a guy will always make his team worse after one year is abit rich)

Harris would be everything we wanted Foye to be, Foye was meant to be a penetrating guard who could score at will in the fourth term and set up Jefferson for the first three quarters. Wow... What is Harris? oh yeah, a point guard who will penetrate and score and someone who can set up Jefferson for the first three quarters.

As to the tonne we give up

Love- Yes hes a special talent, yes hes awsome at rebounding and outlet passes, yes he plays the same position as our franchise player.

Foye- He still may turn it on one day, but way too inconsistent to be anything but a 6th man.

#6 Pick- The wild card, could be amazing, could be horrible, thats the kind of draft this is. Thornton would be a top ten pick in this draft.

Gomes- Oh wow, we are caring about a guy who would be #8 or #9 on a contending team n

[revprodeji]

tf21...I was considering Love and the draft pick as the foundational.

[karch34]

I like it, but I don't love it as we give up a bit more than I think is fair. I don't think it's as imbalanced as most do though. That said I think Harris would be a great fit, like Kaman or not he helps upfront, and I liked Thorton and Young way more than Brewer in the draft and still do.

[Dewey]

I'm not sure why Kevin Love is ever mentioned in trades when Al Jefferson has yet to prove he can successfully come off his knee surgery.

The trade isn't going to happen. Outside of Love/Harris, you'd basically be swapping spit. Kaman fills a hole, but is not dependable. We're better off picking up a big man in the draft later in the first round.

[GopherIt!]

Just an FYI, because most of us are not interested in Kaman/Thornton, I'm looking at the MN-NJ portion of the trade which is essentially Love and #6 for Harris. I think those two pieces are the key to dealing Harris for Ecuhus.


I kind of see this as a matter of leveraging assets.

I really like Eric Maynor as a point guard prospect. He has a reasonable chance to be available to us at the 18th pick. I'm hoping if he's available that we pick him (if we don't draft a PG at #6.) Long term, he might not become Harris good but he still looks like he has a great future ahead of him.

There is, of course, a chance he might not be available to us at that pick. If we have to, I think we could move up a few slots to increase the likelihood we will obtain him. The cost of moving up should be relatively minor. There are MIL (#10) and NJ (#11) proposals that have been passed around the boards whereby we would give up our #18, Cookie and either Bassy or the #45 for either of those teams higher pick. I think we will be able to move up if we have to. Worst case, we are surrendering minor assets to virtually ensure we obtain a quality point guard in this years draft.

To obtain Harris in the New Jersey deal would cost us significant assets, namely Love and the #6 pick. We have a different perspective on the draft. At #6 I see a relatively minor degree of risk. I think the Wolves are fortune to be picking where they are. Players like Harden, DeRozan & Holliday have a good chance of succeeding in the NBA. Now if we were picking outside of the top ten then I would agree with you but as it stands I think we are in a good spot.

I can see your point in that Harris is a very good PG and would really help the Wolves immediately. I just don't believe that the long term improvement from Maynor (or Holliday) to Harris is enough to justify loosing one or two valuable assets in the process. If the draft were weak in PG's then it might be a different story. Right now though, I would rather have Love, Maynor & either DeRozan or Harden than Harris. That's just me.

[john2jer]

As I said over there, Kaman is over-paid garbage that can't play with a top level post as he proved with Elton Brand.

Thornton is a year younger than Gomes, but doesn't bring anything special to the court, other than reports of a crappy attitude and a lack of defense.

Harris is the only piece I like out of this and I think we could get more for that package.

[Foye]

I will have to pass on that one, too.