Trades you would use 2010 cap on

the_bruce · Post #1 » by **the_bruce** » Fri Jun 5, 2009 3:45 pm

It doesn't seem like other teams fans care about cap as much as MN does. I think we may have the most cap aware board on RealGM, and that's probably all cheap shrinks fault. So I'm saying you are all cheap skates as well. That being said there's a few ways I'd be willing to spend it.

I'd give 7-10m in cap space for a pick 7-10. e.g. Jefferies + 8 for Cardinal. Craw + 7 for Miller + utah pick, etc

I'd take on an additional 6m in 2010 cap space for a bassy + cardinal swap w\ hinrich.

...that's about it.

shrink · Post #2 » by **shrink** » Fri Jun 5, 2009 5:08 pm

I wouldn't mind Hinrich, but the Bulls might not need the cap space in 2010 (depending on how many FA's they target). If I'm dealing straight cap space, it better be Hinrich ..plus an asset.

.. And that's the general hazy sense I have here for future targets. Okafor, Wallace, maybe Bogut plus. Guys that may be on big deals, but are #1 or #2 options on teams that want to rebuild.

However, it's particularly valuable to a high-end destination that can pick its free agents. Remember that stupid cap space for #8 + Curry and JJ trade from NYK? A city like the New York could use that $18 mil in raw cap space to make a max deal to a guy of LeBron's caliber. So how much would NYK pay to use us to turn Curry and JJ into LeBron? A heck of a lot more than the #8 .. I'm not sure their team carries enough value. The Knicks would love the chance to add two of the best free agents of 2010.

Point is, that MIN can use the cap space to act like a kingmaker, or a savior to a team that's facing a shrinking lux that an owner can't afford. And kingmakers get well paid for their services.

B Calrissian · Post #3 » by **B Calrissian** » Fri Jun 5, 2009 5:22 pm

I would be down for using the money on Kevin Martin even if Beno had to come with.

6/Foye/Miller/Telfair for Martin/Urdih, is that enough? A core of Martin/Love/Jefferson would be amazing.

john2jer · Post #4 » by **john2jer** » Fri Jun 5, 2009 5:25 pm

Martin doesn't play defense either. AWESOME! :-)

B Calrissian · Post #5 » by **B Calrissian** » Fri Jun 5, 2009 6:12 pm

john2jer wrote:Martin doesn't play defense either. AWESOME!

You sure are picky. If the Wolves got a defensive PG a line up of, said pg/Martin/Brewer/Love/Jefferson wouldn't be too bad. Brewer isn't exactly a guard dog yet but someday he might be.

john2jer · Post #6 » by **john2jer** » Fri Jun 5, 2009 6:16 pm

I want Michael Jordans at every position. Anything less is failure. :-)

shrink · Post #7 » by **shrink** » Fri Jun 5, 2009 6:37 pm

I've been using the list below to point out to people where the line between money/contract is in today's NBA economy, because this is what players are getting paid today. The 2009 contracts may be even less expensive, as teams prepare for 2010 and a shrinking cap and lux.

2008 Signings
Arenas $16.2,
Dwight Howard $15.2
Deron Williams $13.8
Chris Paul $13.8
Bynum $12.5
Bogut $12
Al Jefferson $12
Iguodala $12
Monta Ellis $11
Granger $10.2
Josh Smith $10.8
Okafor $10.5
Kevin Martin $9.7
Biedrins $9
Devin Harris $8.4
Calderon $8.2
Jameer $7.7

Anyway, if I'm going to use raw cap space, I'm going to want a #1 or #2 guy that isn't over-priced in today's dollars, so this will serve as my "quick-and-dirty" list of trade targets. Most 2009 guys are sure to be added, and I'll consider guys on contracts signed before 2006-7 on an individual basis, but they'd have to fit logically in the current list. I'd also consider a slightly bad contract if the other team added additional incentive. But I'll start with this list. No sense using raw cap space on players that are already over-priced.

CoolKids · Post #8 » by **CoolKids** » Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:03 pm

-_____- No one is signing with the timberwolves. You do not need cap space.

Post #9 » by **revprodeji** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 12:06 am

Reading is a good skill to have. We are talking about using that cap space to trade for someone with an existing contract. Not a free agent.

4ho5ive · Post #10 » by **4ho5ive** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 12:51 am

CoolKids wrote:-_____- No one is signing with the timberwolves. You do not need cap space.

Congratulations, you win the "Who Gives a $h!t Award of Excellence"!

You can go back to your board and talk amongst (most) ignorant fans about the positives and negatives of a Curry + Jeffries for Dwight Howard trade. "Yur stupid, Curry in shape is a top 3 low post scorer in teh NBA". Oh really? nobody cares.

Kthxbye!

Post #11 » by **revprodeji** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 1:31 am

Isnt Curry in shape like saying a modest playmate?

Post #12 » by **TheFranchise21** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 5:47 am

Not Hinrich, and that's all I have to say.

Foye · Post #13 » by **Foye** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 7:34 am

CoolKids wrote:-_____- No one is signing with the timberwolves. You do not need cap space.

Everyone likes to play in New York and your team still is mediocre for years now. So go back to your NY board now and start worrying about your own affairs. :lol:

john2jer · Post #14 » by **john2jer** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 8:20 pm

CoolKids wrote:-_____- No one is signing with the timberwolves. You do not need cap space.

Chris Duhon for the win!

Sounds like someone's panties are in a bunch.

Esohny · Post #15 » by **Esohny** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 8:26 pm

I want to keep my Virtuosity reference alive. Can we call him Duhon 6.7?

Post #16 » by **revprodeji** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 10:21 pm

answer to OP. I would use the cap space on a player that can be our #2 or very valuable #3 for the next 6 years. A legit foundational player that we can build around. Hinrich of course is the debate. I think he can be that #3 guy and his fit is crazy good. But if he is our only move then we are screwed. If we have another move for a scorer and then we are adding Hinrich then it is a positive.

john2jer · Post #17 » by **john2jer** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 10:55 pm

Personally I think our next move, outside of the draft and future asset gaining trades, should be for a #1 or #2 option, not more "solid role players".

Post #18 » by **revprodeji** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 11:08 pm

yes we need to, at a minimum, bring in the talent to push gomes, bassy, and possibly foye into support roles off the bench. whether it is via draft trade or natural progression, (brewer surpassing gomes).

it is completely pointless to bring in talent at their level. we have enough role players.

JMillott · Post #19 » by **JMillott** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 11:24 pm

revprodeji wrote:answer to OP. I would use the cap space on a player that can be our #2 or very valuable #3 for the next 6 years. A legit foundational player that we can build around. Hinrich of course is the debate. I think he can be that #3 guy and his fit is crazy good. But if he is our only move then we are screwed. If we have another move for a scorer and then we are adding Hinrich then it is a positive.

I also believe that Hinrich can be a very legit #3 guy for a contending team. That is why i'm all for going and getting the guy if the price is right, in other words you don't give up Jefferson, Love, #6 or Miller to get the guy in my opinion.

Gomes
Smith
Telfair
Cardinal
Madsen
#18
#28

I'd gladly give up a combonation of those assets for Hinrich and if both picks go out i'd expect the #16 back with him. Part of my being behind such a trade is that Hinrich is a very good starting PG but I also think its a good addition by subtraction move.

The biggest reason why the Celtics benefited so much from the KG/Al trade wasn't because of the gap between the two stars it was that the Celtics were able to dump all their garbage like Telfair, Green, Ratliff, etc in the process.

If Love develops as he should and the Wolves make a strong selection at #6 its quite possible that Hinrich is the #4 guy in a year or two. I think its possible that Foye could be so effected by not playing out of position at PG or playing next to the awful Telfair that he could very well prove to be a real difference maker should he become the 4th, 5th or 6th guy.

JMillott · Post #20 » by **JMillott** » Sat Jun 6, 2009 11:44 pm

revprodeji wrote:yes we need to, at a minimum, bring in the talent to push gomes, bassy, and possibly foye into support roles off the bench. whether it is via draft trade or natural progression, (brewer surpassing gomes).

it is completely pointless to bring in talent at their level. we have enough role players.

Very well said.

Gomes isn't a problem in and of himself but having him be your third option is just not good enough. He is at the end of the day a 5th starter at best or ideally a backup combo forward.

Foye isn't a problem in and of himself but he is a complimentry starter or possibly an outstanding sixth man not a #2 guy on a good team. If you have an excellent SF playing at an allstar level then Foye would do a very credible job keeping teams honest. The problem is that he is by default the go to scoring option from the wing. Hell if they had a starting SF as good as Foye they might even get away with it.

Telfair is a problem period no matter what a cap loving fanbase might like to pretend, its not a value to have him at 2.5 million dollars as a starter or back up because he just isn't any good. There is a reason why he was 10th in win shares on a bad team despite being fourth in minutes played.