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Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink

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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#21 » by B Calrissian » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:54 pm

Devilzsidewalk wrote:
B Calrissian wrote:I hope he keeps in touch with Al and Love. Maybe he can work with them in the summers.


ohhhhhh, dammit Klomp, we really need that picture!!! are you sure you don't have it anymore


Someone with photoshop skills and lots of time should make that photo into Mac, Love, and Al.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#22 » by shrink » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:56 pm

The role of a GM is to construct a team that has a chance to succeed. If you look at your team before the season, and can't get excited, its because the GM hasn't built a team on paper that approached the goals of the season. Recent fans may complain we're like that now, or we have Kevin Love and he doesn't fit, and a hundred other complaints, but the goal now is to rebuild to compete in 2010, and our team is heading toward that goal. A constantly repeated error is that McHale did not construct a team to compete, and this is simply untrue.

McHale's first big decision was perhaps the best one in the history of the Wolves -- choosing Kevin Garnett. People who've seen KG play for a long time like to ignore just how big McHale's balls had to be to make this pick on this team.

Whitebread wolves fans were reeling from the anti-social behavior that a certain JR .. I mean .. Isaiah Rider was doing around town after dark. Supposedly the national representive of the Timberwolves team, the fiery Rider had numerous encounters which finally ended with a loaded gun charge. None of this change Rider a bit, and Wolves fans cringed that the talented-but-troubled guard was how NBA fans knew Minnesota. On top of this, Laettner was a completely selfish jerk that called his teammates losers, and Donyell Marshall was such a bust that we traded him away before he even finished the season.

McHale was really choosing between two players. First, there was Ed O'Bannon. He was a college senior (they all were back then) who was the NCAA Player of the Year, he had led UCLA to an NCAA Championship. He as well-known, popular, and safe commodity.

Then there was Garnett. KG was the first player in ten years to not just try to skip a year of college, but skip it altogether! He hadn't been developed by a college coach. He hadn't grown for four years. He hadn't played against college (and most of the future NBA) competition. He'd only started playing basketball late, had some good high school camps, back when that really meant the most to college recruiters. On top of this, the kid was arrested for a lynching charge (actually being in a crowd when an interracial fight broke out at his high school), and had changed schools his senior year.

People all agreed that KG had great physical skills, but he was a huge risk back then. Many didn't want him because they thought he must be stupid to be the one guy skipping college. Many didn't want him because they didn't have any idea how this high school kid would do against NBA .. or even college .. players. Many said MIN couldn't risk another JR Rider. Rumors had already starting to circulate about the wolves being a doomed franchise, and how only a reliable guy like Ed O'Bannon could even be considered.

McHale spent a lot of time with Garnett. He was obviously enthralled by his physical skills. However, it was Garnett's character that convinced McHale. Though four teams in front had passed on KG, McHale recognized this was a selfless kid that would work his butt off -- perhaps harder than any previous Timberwolf -- and with KG's background, he would appreciate (not feel entitled to) all the benefits and struggles of being an NBA player.

McHale made that pick. Looking back, its easy to say, "Well of course. He was clearly the best, and he was high on the mock drafts out there." However, this was McHale's very first decision on a team that couldn't take big risks, and he took that risk anyway .. all on him.

McHale's decision turned the franchise around -- maybe even saved it. That deserves appreciation.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#23 » by Dewey » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:57 pm

I'm ready for all the peaches and cream coming from the next GM and Coach! With all that has been dumped on McHale, I expect BIG things ... no excuses. Funny thing is, I can hear them already.

McHale will fess up to his own mistakes, and truthfully, he has even sucked it up for mistakes that weren't even his. The boneheads who can't let things go and simply use the man as a scapegoat for all that's gone bad is pathetic. I can see why depression is a problem for a large part of the american population ... they seek and dwell on negativity.

The bar is indeed set high ... very high.
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#24 » by shrink » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:58 pm

I'll continue with McHale's career later. I have a lot to do today, and I have an early flight tomorrow, but hopefully I can finish with an appropriate homage in the time I have left.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#25 » by Zeitgeister » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:06 pm

I've heard that there were a number of teams that were trying to trade up to grab Garnett in that draft. I definitely know that Isiah Thomas was interested when he was with the Raptors.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#26 » by 4ho5ive » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:07 pm

shrink is hella conceited
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#27 » by ChazzleDazzle » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:09 pm

Some of the credit for drafting KG goes to Flip. I remember reading a story/interview with McHale years ago about the day they worked him out, and drove away saying, "Can you believe we're going to take a High School kid #5 overall?"

That said, I agree with everything you're saying, Shrink. Too much blame piled on one person (and not enough institutional memory, in some cases). However, I do also think that the team needed a fresh start, and now that we've started one, a clean break from the past is not necessarily a bad thing.

I enjoyed the majority of the McHale years, and appreciate how he helped turn the team around (twice, really). Hope he enjoys all the fishing time he's going to have.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#28 » by Basti » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:47 pm

Devilzsidewalk wrote:
B Calrissian wrote:I hope he keeps in touch with Al and Love. Maybe he can work with them in the summers.


ohhhhhh, dammit Klomp, we really need that picture!!! are you sure you don't have it anymore


I thought I had saved it once on my computer but I just found out I didn't do that :(
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#29 » by Foye » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:47 pm

good day...mchale finally out...
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#30 » by funkatron101 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:57 pm

I'm going to miss you Shrink.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#31 » by shrink » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:04 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:I've heard that there were a number of teams that were trying to trade up to grab Garnett in that draft. I definitely know that Isiah Thomas was interested when he was with the Raptors.


You completely missed the point of my post.

It doesn't matter if TOR and Isiah Thomas wanted Garnett. We're Minnesota, and for Minnesota, with Isaiah Rider and a history of true failure, it was a brave .. and correct .. pick.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#32 » by LOBO 7 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:56 pm

Yeah, say what you want about him, I'm going to miss him. He made some bad calls, but I agree with shrink, he's been an easy scapegoat for people and has handled that as graciously as anyone could. I really thought he'd be here at least one more year and was excited about this season. I'm still excited, but I'm also a bit worried about being Kahned into thinking that we've got a new improved direction. I was excited to watch these pups grow together, and Mac was a huge part of that process, they all seemed to rally around him. I'm worried that the pups will hear all this clinical, calculating talk from some business man and lose the togetherness that they were developing last year. What I will miss about McHale is the down-to-earth way he talked about the pups and the genuine faith he had in their future together. Whether or not this was a delusional outlook, it was an encouraging attitude that began to show results on the court. It was obvious that Mac loved the game, bottom line. I, for one, am a bit worried that we have a Kahn artist on our hands who just sees a bunch of numbers. Call me a bleeding-heart liberal, but I feel a certain connection with all the pups as people, not just as basketball players, and it was obvious that Mac felt the same way. The Kahn Man has already used numbers to describe the pups (#2 and #4 player on a championship team...) and is already talking about trading Kevlar, and saying that most of these pups won't be here for long. How do you think that kind of talk is going to effect the togetherness of this team this season? A lot will depend on who the coach is, so we'll see, but I really think things could fall apart. One thing is for sure, this is a new era for Timberwolves basketball. Its just that I, for one, am not sure if it is necessarily a change for the better. Obviously, it's way to early to tell, and I only call Kahn the Kahn Man because of his smooth-talking demeanor, not because I've already passed judgement on him. I guess the bottom line is that I, for one, am a bit hesitant to embrace his vision with open arms. Maybe I'm old fashioned, and maybe he'll turn this team around with shrewd moves and straight talk. That is certainly a possibility. However, it is also a possibility that in tearing things apart he will completely destroy the encouraging foundation that we have built with these pups.
Ok, I better stop.
So long Mac.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#33 » by cpfsf » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:28 am

-We were bashed for waiving Udrih when he had his "breakout season" but look at Sacramento now.
-Then of course we got Pek and got rid of Davis and Blount
-We got rid of KG at the right time, before he started facing injuries. Don't like to say it, but dang he's turned into a ****.
-January 2009
-Heck, we got to the Western Conference Finals (with the best record in the West), but All-Star point guard Sam Cassell and "Laker Killer" Hudson got injured, we haven't had that much luck since the Twins in 91. That right there was a Finals worthy team.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#34 » by skorff26 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:47 am

I really liked what McHale did the last 2 years with this team.

Actually before that, I don't blame him for some of the decisions; KG was in his prime and we were trying to compete for a title and all we had was our MLE and the ability to resign our players. We overpaid to keep some players that had some potential (and ended up being duds). He took a chance and lost. Also a lot of his misses in the draft were out of the lottery and hit is hit or miss in the twenties.

The only thing that we can blame him for was the Joe Smith fiasco (and even then, I don't think it was entirely his fault).
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#35 » by shrink » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:23 am

I don't think I'll have time to go through McHale's plusses and minuses in the detail I'd like, but let me point out a few things:

1. He was very constrained by finances. While he was worth every penny, Kevin Garnett had the largest contract in the NBA. At the time, of course, but I believe he had the largest contract ever. Few owners are willing to exceed the lux (though Taylor did it once), so he needed the money spent on the #2 guy to work out.

2. He was constrained by injuries. I believe McHale did his job as GM and put together competitive teams on paper three times. I think KG/Marbury/Googs had potential eventually, KG/Brandon/Szczerbiak, and KG/Cassell/Sprewell. I believe every player listed was a recent or current All Star, for comparison to how good they were compared to the rest of the league. Unfortunately, these teams achieved success during the season, but lost key elements from injury when the play-offs came around. Garnett is great, but if you've sunk your other big chunk of salary into Terrell Brandon, its hard for the rest of the team to have a high enough ceiling to get out of the 1st round. McHale was not responsible for injuries, and I put the responsibility on the players when they acted selfishly and unprofessionally, like Marbury and Cassell. Many considered the KG/Cassell/Sprewell team to be the favorites to win a ring, and that was because of the roster the GM put together.

3. High quality draft picks weren't enriching a team stuck in the middle. After watching the wolves splutter along for many years with mediocre picks (or no picks), it became apparent to me that winning NBA basketball is cyclical. While superstars occasionally exist with late picks, the chance that a team finds two of them is very rare. Wolves fans demanded that the team never rebuild while KG was there, and hoped they'd build a contender around him. Attempts were made, but the Wolves only assets without picks were financial ones, and when they get locked into injured players, no GM can magically heal or create tens of millions in replacement cap space. The accumulation of overpaid players in desperate attempts to find complimentary talent is something McHale must share the blame for.

I believe this demand led to McHale's biggest failures - throwing money at cheap, talented, but flawed players like Ricky Davis, Mark Blount, and the rest of those guys and gambling that they were cheap (in trade value) despite the chance they could ignore their flaws and have a good season next to KG. It was "this is all we can afford to try" vs "not trying" after the Cassell/Sprewell dissension.

4. We've had many discussions on the picks, and I'll just mention a couple things, because I really really hate the Monday Morning quarterbacks. McHale did not draft badly. At times there were players that turned out better on the board, but when he's had lottery picks, he never struck out. My baseball analogy is that while he had only one home run, he didn't strike out -- he hit a lot of singles. People may say, "Well Randy Foye is no Brandon Roy!" and they are correct. However, he's also not a Sheldon Williams or Patrick O'Bryant as well. Ndudi Ebi was the #26th pick. You have less chance to hit a home run, the later the draft goes, and I don't mind swinging for the fences with an Ebi pick, or a McCants once in a while.

5. As a trader, its hard to know how much he was responsible for, and how much came from Stack or others, but as GM, let's make him responsible for the whole enchilada. I think he's done OK. While the Jaric deal failed with everything that season, I agree with cpfsf that KG was dealt at the right time, and for the best package we could get. The MIA trade was terrific (Ricky Davis + Blount for shorter deals and a 1st), as were most of the trades that rid this team of expensive, overpaid, older players. I think his best trade though was dealing the disgruntled Marbury, right before his first big contract, and getting back a different All Star PG as well as a lottery pick.


Anyway, when people say that we needed to get rid of McHale to put this team in a new direction, I think they have a point. He's been the scapegoat for years, and that makes some fans want a pound of flesh. Fair or not, they might not come back if McHale isn't gone. Moreover, for good or bad, it sounds like people (players, staff, Taylor) listen to McHale. I think that his presence would make things tough for Kahn and the team if they wanted to go in a different direction.

I think that when the history of the wolves is written McHale will remain the scapegoat for every bad thing that the team has endured, and meanwhile Garnett will be applauded for every good thing. Reality isn't like this, and its unfair to McHale. However, he's taken all the insults and complaints on his broad shoulders, and always acted with class, representing the Timberwolves and the state of Minnesota. I wish him well.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#36 » by casey » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:36 am

All the hate he gets really isn't warranted. Thank you Kevin for those two playoff series wins you gave us in 14 years. I'll never forget them. You are my hero.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#37 » by Shrunk » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:39 am

Everything you said Shrink is right on the money, proving once again Devilz and yourself are the class acts of this board.
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#38 » by 4ho5ive » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:42 am

kiss a$$
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#39 » by Twizman » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:38 am

Thanks Shrink, that was a great overview :)
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Re: Official Thanks McHale, we luv u thread, co-starring Shrink 

Post#40 » by invno1 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:18 am

Kevin really did give heart to the players, It's sure he has their respect.

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