Por/Min: Revisiting Johnny Flynn Deal???

[Butter]

Frankly, the Blazers are coming up empty so far this season. I realize they are getting stone-walled so far, so if you could resist the "I told you so's" I'd appreciate it. With Kahn's visit to Spain, I'm wondering if a Rudy for Flynn deal should be revisited in these chats? I'm going to guess that bringing in Rudy would be a huge win for the Wolves as it addresses their biggest need in their roster AND wouldn't hurt the recruiting efforts for Rubio.

I was reading the pre-draft profiles on both Flynn and Chris Paul a minute ago. It looks like Paul is more of a pure passer who can obviously score, while Flynn is really more of a shoot first PG who can pass. I realize that SL doesn't provide a comprehensive view of Flynn, but I'd also be interested in hearing your perspective on the Flynn/Paul comparison.

I'd love to hear your feedback on Flynn and your thoughts on how this trade would work for out for both franchises.

Thanks for your feedback.

[collin_k41]

I'm starting to be less in favor of trading either of our PG's. I think they kind of make up for each others weaknesses in certain areas and both excel in others. For example, Flynn is 6'0" tops while Rubio is 6'5". Also, Rubio's athletic/penetrating abilities have been questioned whereas Flynn is an athletic beast. Both can obviously pass the ball and both are pure PG's but I think I want to try them both in the backcourt. There are a couple concerns with this though....

1. Defense--while they are both good defenders I doubt Rubio has the strength and quickness to guard the better SG's in this league.
2. Scoring--Obviously if we aren't going to have a "shooting" guard then at least one of our point guards better be able to put up some points. I think Flynn can put up decent offensive numbers but I worry about Rubio.

The good thing is that these guys are young and can improve on these things to fill in the gaps and make it work. I'm willing to take a chance and run with two point guards. Rudy Fernandez is definitely something I'd have to consider if we want to only keep one but for now I'd rather keep them both.

[Esohny]

If I recall, there was interest in Rudy, but the only feedback we got was the Rudy was so much more valuable than Flynn(who apparently isn't nearly the starter that Blake is...) that the Wolves would have to include a lot more in the deal. Also, many Portland fans felt that Bayless was a better PG prospect and they didn't need Flynn. I don't happen to agree with either of those notions.

[shrink]

There was some talk of Flynn for Rudy Fernandez a while ago, and MIN still has a gaping hole at SG. I'm somewhat indifferent, but I think that's the most likely path to a deal.

I will say though that under Kahn, MIN has been shipping out its "good" players to try for the chance at something better (Rubio, DEN future 1st), so the typical Blazer offer of stacked up bench players probably won't draw much interest.

[collin_k41]

I don't get why everyone says Rudy has so much more value than Flynn. He barely even plays! He's shown that he's a capable player but if he's so great he should get more PT. The furthest I would go is to say that Rudy has slightly more value than Flynn. Oh, Bayless a better prospect than Flynn? Preposterous..Portland really overvalues their talent. We do too but not that much.

[Vega06]

Flynn isn't a scoring PG. He's absolutely a pure point.

[Krapinsky]

I like Rudy and would consider him in a package for Flynn, however I think Flynn is worth more. Yes, FLynn is unproven, but he has higher upside. Bayless, I don't value as much. We've tried out the combo guard thing and we don't have the patience Blazers fans may have in waiting for a player to learn to play the point. Perhaps Bayless could play off of Rubio just the same, but in my eyes Rudy is more of a sure thing and a better fit all things considered.

I would propose something along the lines of Flynn/Smith/Telfair for Rudy/Outlaw/Blake

[Butter]

If I recall, there was interest in Rudy, but the only feedback we got was the Rudy was so much more valuable than Flynn(who apparently isn't nearly the starter that Blake is...) that the Wolves would have to include a lot more in the deal. Also, many Portland fans felt that Bayless was a better PG prospect and they didn't need Flynn. I don't happen to agree with either of those notions.

Well, I can not speak to other Blazer fans. Clearly, none of us have any real deal making ability for any NBA franchises, I'm just a fan chatting about a concept.

The intent of my thread was to talk about a deal primarily based around Rudy for Flynn. I think there would likely need to be some filler pieces involved, but IMHO, its an interesting discussion. However, I do think that Rudy does have a couple of advantages over Flynn.

1) He has played professionally overseas and in the Olympics. While that doesn't guarantee anything, it does give a larger body of work to compare than just college.
2) Rudy has played an NBA season. Flynn has played two SL games.

Once again, that is not a knock against Flynn, its just a reality. Flynn has some amazing highlight video's from college, but it will be much easier to verify his value once he drives the lane on Shaq and Lebron, or tries to get around Chris Paul, etc.

Clearly I place a lot of value on Flynn's potential, but I think that Rudy has a boat load of potential, and we've seen that he can be effective in the NBA already (ask Dwight Howard about his dunking ability from the Olympics).

[Butter]

Flynn isn't a scoring PG. He's absolutely a pure point.

All I'm going off of are these pre-draft profiles:

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jonny-flynn
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jonny-Flynn-1245/

Mainly this:

Flynn was a standout in two areas: his ability to get to the rim, and his one-on-one skills. Thankfully for him, those are two skills that the NBA values dearly. Clearly, his productivity is grounded in his first step. Flynn got to the rim 8.8 times per game, which accounted for a lot of his scoring, but his 1.24 PPP in unguarded catch and shoot situations and .94 PPP on pull up jumpers are both very respectable. His 4.3 possessions per game on isolations are amongst the best amongst big-conference players, and his 41% shooting on those plays isn’t awful. Couple those tools with his capacity to drive in both directions and his ability to draw fouls (16.1% SF), and it becomes hard not to think that Flynn could be, at the very least, a high quality backup if he improves his efficiency, especially once he masters the pick and roll (.84 PPP).

I'm not saying Flynn isn't a good passer. In fact, that's why I'm interested in the idea of him. It just looks like he shot the ball a lot in college.

[Esohny]

If I recall, there was interest in Rudy, but the only feedback we got was the Rudy was so much more valuable than Flynn(who apparently isn't nearly the starter that Blake is...) that the Wolves would have to include a lot more in the deal. Also, many Portland fans felt that Bayless was a better PG prospect and they didn't need Flynn. I don't happen to agree with either of those notions.

Well, I can not speak to other Blazer fans. Clearly, none of us have any real deal making ability for any NBA franchises, I'm just a fan chatting about a concept.

The intent of my thread was to talk about a deal primarily based around Rudy for Flynn. I think there would likely need to be some filler pieces involved, but IMHO, its an interesting discussion. However, I do think that Rudy does have a couple of advantages over Flynn.

1) He has played professionally overseas and in the Olympics. While that doesn't guarantee anything, it does give a larger body of work to compare than just college.
2) Rudy has played an NBA season. Flynn has played two SL games.

Once again, that is not a knock against Flynn, its just a reality. Flynn has some amazing highlight video's from college, but it will be much easier to verify his value once he drives the lane on Shaq and Lebron, or tries to get around Chris Paul, etc.

Clearly I place a lot of value on Flynn's potential, but I think that Rudy has a boat load of potential, and we've seen that he can be effective in the NBA already (ask Dwight Howard about his dunking ability from the Olympics).

I don't disagree that there are fair deals there that would help both teams. Based on Pritchard's reputation, however, and on very limited feedback from Portland fans, it is hard to guage the likelyhood of a deal going down.

For instance, Dr. Krapinsky has a deal proposed above that I don't think is far off in value. I have no idea if it's likely however.

[Butter]

By the way, what do Wolves fans think about the comparison to Chris Paul? Does Flynn have that potential, or is that completely off base?

[Esohny]

By the way, what do Wolves fans think about the comparison to Chris Paul? Does Flynn have that potential, or is that completely off base?

He seems to play Paul's style. As for whether he has the potential to be as good as Paul, I would say that's very unlikely, but I see him as having all-star potential. I would also say that he seems to be stronger/sturdier than Paul, so he might be able to do things a little differently.

[Marc]

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=918577&start=0

[Butter]

If I recall, there was interest in Rudy, but the only feedback we got was the Rudy was so much more valuable than Flynn(who apparently isn't nearly the starter that Blake is...) that the Wolves would have to include a lot more in the deal. Also, many Portland fans felt that Bayless was a better PG prospect and they didn't need Flynn. I don't happen to agree with either of those notions.

Well, I can not speak to other Blazer fans. Clearly, none of us have any real deal making ability for any NBA franchises, I'm just a fan chatting about a concept.

The intent of my thread was to talk about a deal primarily based around Rudy for Flynn. I think there would likely need to be some filler pieces involved, but IMHO, its an interesting discussion. However, I do think that Rudy does have a couple of advantages over Flynn.

1) He has played professionally overseas and in the Olympics. While that doesn't guarantee anything, it does give a larger body of work to compare than just college.
2) Rudy has played an NBA season. Flynn has played two SL games.

Once again, that is not a knock against Flynn, its just a reality. Flynn has some amazing highlight video's from college, but it will be much easier to verify his value once he drives the lane on Shaq and Lebron, or tries to get around Chris Paul, etc.

Clearly I place a lot of value on Flynn's potential, but I think that Rudy has a boat load of potential, and we've seen that he can be effective in the NBA already (ask Dwight Howard about his dunking ability from the Olympics).

I don't disagree that there are fair deals there that would help both teams. Based on Pritchard's reputation, however, and on very limited feedback from Portland fans, it is hard to guage the likelyhood of a deal going down.

For instance, Dr. Krapinsky has a deal proposed above that I don't think is far off in value. I have no idea if it's likely however.

I think the basis for the trade is fair, but the individual pieces might need to be tweaked.

I believe that Rudy is slightly more valuable do to his professional experience and superior perimeter shooting. Also, Flynn is very talented, but there are questions about his size.

Also, Outlaw vs. Smith. Pretty equal, depending on what you want from the players. Outlaw is probably a better fit next to Jefferson or Love because of his ability to stretch the defense, and Smith is a "banger" type big that the Blazers need to play down low. I think that's pretty solid.

Blake vs. Telfair. I just don't see the Blazers bringing back Telfair with their history. So that probably needs to be tweaked. Also, with Bayless and Flynn on the roster, I think the Blazers would want to keep Blake as a veteran PG option who's ready to run a team now. If Flynn beat him out, Blake would be a great veteran off the bench for the Blazers.

[revprodeji]

You need to wait the 60 days or so until he can be traded. Rudy for Flynn straight up is simple and sweet. You can tell it is fair because people from both sides are claiming their guy has more value. It is more a matter of fit. Rudy will not play starter minutes with Roy in portland. Flynn could start next to him. Rudy knows Rubio and could help his transition and helps our SG needs.

I am cool with keeping flynn, but I would like a Rudy/Flynn swap.

[Krapinsky]

Here's my case for Flynn having more value than Rudy.

You're right, Flynn hasn't proven anything on the court. Thus as an NBA player his value is a mystery. However, he does have the value of the #6 pick in the draft.

Look at history --

Battier in his prime straight up for the #8 pick in a fairly week draft. Battier > Rudy

Ray Allen, coming off a season where he more than doubled Rudy's #'s, for the #5 pick and Wally Szcerbiak's contract.

Another way to look at it ---

I'd rather take Derozan and his tremendous upside (who we passed up in favor of Flynn) over Rudy.

[skorff26]

Flynn is starting to grow on me (I didn't like the pick when we made it), but I think I would still do this trade; (even though it might not be smart since Flynn would probably become really good and then we would have to hear about Flynn and Roy from some of the blazers trolls).

[revprodeji]

The big difference here is that Flynn is 20 and Rudy is 24.

Athletically flynn is amazing. Rudy's numbers are avg.

Rudy has legit skill and I think he would be a very nice pro. A poor-man Kevin martin. But it is a trade that you flip a coin on. Will it help Rubio? perhaps. Does it balance the roster? yes. Does Flynn have more potential? Yes. I guess without seeing Rubio in the NBa and without seeing Rudy as a full time player it is a gamble.

One thing to note. Rubio played alongside a pg last year. Not a sg. If your argument is that Rubio's size would make a need for a small pesky pg then Flynn is the man and you pray a Turner-like SG falls next year.

[Marc]

Battier in his prime straight up for the #8 pick in a fairly week draft. Battier > Rudy.

I remember nbadraft gave Gay the best overall and it was a total surprise that he fell to 8.

[Butter]

Here's my case for Flynn having more value than Rudy.

You're right, Flynn hasn't proven anything on the court. Thus as an NBA player his value is a mystery. However, he does have the value of the #6 pick in the draft.

Look at history --

Battier in his prime straight up for the #8 pick in a fairly week draft. Battier > Rudy

Ray Allen, coming off a season where he more than doubled Rudy's #'s, for the #5 pick and Wally Szcerbiak's contract.

Another way to look at it ---

I'd rather take Derozan and his tremendous upside (who we passed up in favor of Flynn) over Rudy.

The big X factor is Rudy's ability to influence Rubio's decision. I would assume that the Wolves would require some type of a commitment from Rubio before they would even consider moving Flynn. So if Rudy cemented Rubio heading to Minny, it seems like that has some level of value.