ImageImageImage

Wolves player won title as "09 NBA

Moderators: Domejandro, Worm Guts, Calinks

User avatar
Mcfale313
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,291
And1: 42
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Location: Canada
       

Wolves player won title as "09 NBA 

Post#1 » by Mcfale313 » Sat Sep 5, 2009 5:18 pm

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3315

No, this isn't meant to excoriate new Hawk Jason Collins in the same brutal fashion as when we went after Desmond Mason a few weeks ago (BTW, sorry Des, but man, you've sucked for four years now)... In fact, I was once a big Jason Collins supporter because of his tremendous defensive impact, as quantified by his adjusted +/- and his on/off team defensive efficiency numbers. And I wasn't the only stat guru high on Collins' D, either. But in recent years, it's been harder and harder to find anything redeeming about Collins' play, even on defense. His 2-year adjusted plus/minus, one of those "hidden impact" numbers where Collins once thrived, was an horrifying -8.66, meaning that for every possession he was on the floor, he'd cause an otherwise average team to play like a 20-win one. Yikes.

Here are some more J.C. numbers from last year... Among players who played as many minutes as he did, here are those with the fewest Pts/36 min.:

Rk Player Season Age Tm Lg PTS
1 Chuck Hayes 2008-09 25 HOU NBA 3.8
2 Ben Wallace 2008-09 34 CLE NBA 4.5
3 Joel Anthony 2008-09 26 MIA NBA 4.9
4 Jason Collins 2008-09 30 MIN NBA 4.9
5 Bruce Bowen 2008-09 37 SAS NBA 5.1
6 Theo Ratliff 2008-09 35 PHI NBA 5.5
7 DeSagana Diop 2008-09 27 TOT NBA 5.9
8 Dominic McGuire 2008-09 23 WAS NBA 6.2
9 Greg Buckner 2008-09 32 MEM NBA 6.4
10 Trenton Hassell 2008-09 29 NJN NBA 6.4

Here are those with the worst TS%:

Rk Player Season Age Tm Lg TS%
1 Jason Collins 2008-09 30 MIN NBA .346
2 Chuck Hayes 2008-09 25 HOU NBA .375
3 DeShawn Stevenson 2008-09 27 WAS NBA .410
4 Brevin Knight 2008-09 33 UTA NBA .414
5 Donte Greene 2008-09 20 SAC NBA .416
6 Marko Jaric 2008-09 30 MEM NBA .417
7 Malik Rose 2008-09 34 TOT NBA .424
8 DeSagana Diop 2008-09 27 TOT NBA .425
9 Johan Petro 2008-09 23 TOT NBA .429
10 Roko Ukic 2008-09 24 TOR NBA .430

Here are those with the worst PER:

Rk Player Season Age Tm Lg PER
1 Jason Collins 2008-09 30 MIN NBA 3.3
2 Donte Greene 2008-09 20 SAC NBA 5.2
3 Malik Rose 2008-09 34 TOT NBA 5.3
4 Bruce Bowen 2008-09 37 SAS NBA 5.4
5 Matt Carroll 2008-09 28 TOT NBA 5.5
6 Adam Morrison 2008-09 24 TOT NBA 5.7
7 Greg Buckner 2008-09 32 MEM NBA 6.3
8 Yakhouba Diawara 2008-09 26 MIA NBA 6.4
9 Quinton Ross 2008-09 27 MEM NBA 6.9
10 DeShawn Stevenson 2008-09 27 WAS NBA 6.9

Here are 7-footers with the worst rebounding percentages:

Rk Player Ht Season Age Tm Lg TRB%
1 Jason Collins 7-0 2008-09 30 MIN NBA 9.7
2 Andrea Bargnani 7-0 2008-09 23 TOR NBA 10.0
3 Rasho Nesterovic 7-0 2008-09 32 IND NBA 10.9
4 Robin Lopez 7-0 2008-09 20 PHO NBA 11.2
5 Nenad Krstic 7-0 2008-09 25 OKC NBA 12.8
6 Dirk Nowitzki 7-0 2008-09 30 DAL NBA 12.8
7 Ryan Hollins 7-0 2008-09 24 TOT NBA 12.9
8 Roy Hibbert 7-2 2008-09 22 IND NBA 13.3
9 Yi Jianlian 7-0 2008-09 21 NJN NBA 13.7
10 Francisco Elson 7-0 2008-09 32 MIL NBA 13.8

Similarly, he was the worst rebounding center in the league as well.

Here are the players with the fewest total Offensive Win Shares since 2005-06:

Rk Player From To Tm Lg OWS
1 Jason Collins 2006 2009 TOT NBA -3.1
2 Desmond Mason 2006 2009 TOT NBA -2.8
3 Adam Morrison 2007 2009 TOT NBA -2.8
4 Orien Greene 2006 2008 TOT NBA -2.7
5 Malik Rose 2006 2009 TOT NBA -2.7
6 Mardy Collins 2007 2009 TOT NBA -2.4
7 Jamaal Magloire 2006 2009 TOT NBA -1.8
8 Earl Barron 2006 2008 MIA NBA -1.6
9 Antoine Walker 2006 2008 TOT NBA -1.6
10 Marcus Williams 2007 2009 TOT NBA -1.6

He even has Mason beat... In fact, what's so striking about Collins is how much offensive damage he's done to his own teams in so few possessions. Typically we'd expect low-usage guys to have a built-in advantage in terms of shooting percentages, because they're able to pick their spots and restrict themselves to only the highest-percentage looks they can find -- putbacks, dunks, etc. Not so with Collins, though, mainly because the majority of his shots in recent seasons have been jumpers, despite the fact that he's one of worst jump shooters in the game (witness the unthinkably low .128 eFG% on J's last season). Among players with 10,000 career post-1978 minutes and a Hollinger Usage Rate of 10.6 or worse, only 3 other low-usage players have hurt their teams more on offense than Collins:

Rk Player From To Tm Lg OWS
1 Manute Bol 1986 1995 TOT NBA -6.9
2 Greg Kite 1984 1995 TOT NBA -5.0
3 Harvey Catchings 1978 1985 TOT NBA -1.1
4 Jason Collins 2002 2009 TOT NBA 1.3
5 Charles Jones 1984 1998 TOT NBA 5.0
6 Jon Koncak 1986 1996 TOT NBA 6.0
7 Joel Przybilla 2001 2009 TOT NBA 6.8
8 Ervin Johnson 1994 2006 TOT NBA 13.0
9 T.R. Dunn 1978 1991 TOT NBA 19.2

Given that and the fact that few centers have a worse defensive rating since 2006-07, it's hard to imagine why Collins is still getting calls from NBA teams anymore. I know there's a dearth of 7-footers out there (heck, centers in general), and I know that he won't see the floor much and that he's there for locker-room purposes, but Collins has provided a lot of evidence in recent years that he's one of the worst players in the league and that his defensive reputation -- well-deserved, once upon a time -- is no longer in keeping with his actual abilities. Maybe it would have made more sense to take a chance on a younger player who actually has some chance of being decent instead of signing a vet who has very little chance of even producing at a replacement-level rate.



so former wolves Jason collins avg 4.9pt, .346%FG, 3.3PER, 9.7Reb, -3.1OWS per 36 minutes


thats AWFUL

I hope Ryan Hollins won't end up liek this
User avatar
4ho5ive
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,034
And1: 3
Joined: Apr 26, 2007
Location: Minnesota-Where underwhelming happens
Contact:

Re: Wolves player won title as "09 NBA 

Post#2 » by 4ho5ive » Sat Sep 5, 2009 5:23 pm

Thats not even close to being in the same ballpark for a comparison.
Calinks
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 50,235
And1: 17,158
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

Re: Wolves player won title as "09 NBA 

Post#3 » by Calinks » Sat Sep 5, 2009 5:27 pm

Meh, he's still better than Olowokandi.
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.
User avatar
revprodeji
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 22,388
And1: 8
Joined: Dec 25, 2002
Location: Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought
Contact:

Re: Wolves player won title as "09 NBA 

Post#4 » by revprodeji » Sat Sep 5, 2009 7:05 pm

Stats are limited when judging role players.

There are a lot of former wolves on that list.
http://www.timetoshop.org
Weight management, Sports nutrition and more...

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves