RealGM

6 months ago, I had said "if I was GM, this is what I would do" and then listed Kahn's moves.

"And then I would trade for the #5 pick, and draft Ricky Rubio and Johnny Flynn. And I would sign Ramon Sessions to a 4 year, 16 million dollar deal. And I would trade the #18 pick for Charlotte's pick, because we don't need too many rookies on the team at once. And then I would trade Songalia and Brown for Daniels expiring.....and make them throw in a 2nd round pick."

Seriously, I would have slapped someone for being an idiotic homer if they came to me with Kahn's moves so far.

its been a roller coaster ride. unfortunately we are the third team in the division to do the very same thing. Portland and Seattle have done the exact same thing and are a few years ahead of us. if their lead is any indication i think we are on the right track.

jade_hippo wrote:its been a roller coaster ride. unfortunately we are the third team in the division to do the very same thing. Portland and Seattle have done the exact same thing and are a few years ahead of us. if their lead is any indication i think we are on the right track.

Portland, clearly.
Seattle? Not so much. I think we're ahead of them at this point. I'll take Durant over anyone on our team, but the Wolves have more talent overall. We also have more picks and more talent stashed overseas.

Westbrook, Harden, Durant is a pretty solid backcourt and their comittee of frontcourt players will net them more wins than us this year. They are ahead of in the sense their plan is paying dividends already and are a solid bigman away from being a playoff threat where ours still hinges on future actions and players developing since all we have is a set frontcourt and hoping our 1/2/3 positions work out.

plus TTFKAS still has the luxury of being able to trade Jeff Green for a decent 4 or 5. I'd say they are slightly better in terms of overall talent and or star potential. while I love our overall talent I think Westbrook has the highest possibility to become a 2nd tier star of both team's players aside from Durant and Al. yes I implied it, I'm not that sure about Rubio but I'd love to eat crow on that one in ~5 years.

Narf wrote: And then I would trade Songalia and Brown for Daniels expiring.....and make them throw in a 2nd round pick."

Seriously, I would have slapped someone for being an idiotic homer if they came to me with Kahn's moves so far.

I agree Narf, and the same thing crossed my mind.

We have discussions here and on the trade board about what a faur trade for both teams would be, and expect those to be realistic. However, there are individual human beings behind these teams, and they can make questionable moves.

At the same time, as mere message board posters, we only see a shadow of the reality of the NBA. Zach Randolph for expirings? MIL not matching a Sessions offer that's below the MLE? NOH taking Songalia without demanding Atkins?

We just don't know, and its ironic we can be so adamant over our opinions when we they so often don't match reality.

I'm sorry, gotta jump in here.

Your GM traded a few crappy guys in two year contracts for a few really crappy guys in one year contracts.

Songalia and Craig Smith were both decent bench players which your GM got nothing for. Rubio is not going to come over for several years, if at all, which means your GM gave away two players with the highest value on the team (next to Love/Jefferson) for nothing.

Your team still has no quality SG and a below average SF situation and their PF depth is non-existent.

How is that such an amazing summer? Oh right....expiring contracts. All hail to the ever potent expiring contract and all of the ails that it cures!

I'm sorry, I really am not trying to troll, I just don't understand this overwhelming sense of T-Wolf fan joy that comes with blowing the #5 pick and losing most of the team's decent players and replacing them with bums.

I do think the Sessions signing was good and I think Flynn is going to be a good player. But the rest of the moves were perhaps mediocre at best and the Rubio thing was downright awful.

I think the Wolves are going to win maybe 25 games next year, which should be pretty miserable. What do you guys see as the end result of this? Or are you just happy having expiring contracts?

don't be a petulant child starved for attention, you say you don't want to troll but then you have to jump in every day and try to argue about nonsense.

All you gotta know about St. Nick is....

St Nick = Belinelli's xbf

The team lost 3 decent to good players from last season. Smith, Miller, and Foye. They gained the 5th pick in the draft and enough cap space to easily replace any of those players in 2010. Foye needed to be reuped soon and miller was expiring they were by no means long term assets at an affordable price. Kahn managed to net capspace & the #5 for players that were at best 1-2 more seasons on the team.

bruceallen61 wrote:All you gotta know about St. Nick is....

St Nick = Belinelli's xbf

The team lost 3 decent to good players from last season. Smith, Miller, and Foye. They gained the 5th pick in the draft and enough cap space to easily replace any of those players in 2010. Foye needed to be reuped soon and miller was expiring they were by no means long term assets at an affordable price. Kahn managed to net capspace & the #5 for players that were at best 1-2 more seasons on the team.

The 5th pick in the draft is wearing a red and blue jersey and playing 2000mi away from your team right now, though. He'll be there for at least two years, likely three, and possibly a lot longer.

Even if Miller and Foye weren't in your long term plans, they had value, as seen in getting the #5 pick for them. Not getting a return on that is, as of now, a bad move, perhaps the worst move of any move made in the NBA this summer.

The cap space is coming one year early at the cost of some good players in Songalia and Craig Smith. Perhaps one could justify that you'll get suitable replacements for these guys next year, but who is out there that will ensure that? If signing Ryan Hollins to a deal like the one he got is an indication of the value Kahn places on big men, then I wouldn't be as optimistic.

I think the Sessions signing helps Kahn's credibility out a lot. But to me that is the one standout positive move he has made. It doesn't balance out the Rubio pick, trading good players to get that pick, and then dealing other good players to have a little extra cap space one year earlier than otherwise.

BTW, I'm trying to be respectful here to everyone. So to the other posters, try to have some class and not go around insulting me because my opinion is different.

St.Nick wrote:The cap space is coming one year early at the cost of some good players in Songalia and Craig Smith. Perhaps one could justify that you'll get suitable replacements for these guys next year, but who is out there that will ensure that? If signing Ryan Hollins to a deal like the one he got is an indication of the value Kahn places on big men, then I wouldn't be as optimistic.

I think the Sessions signing helps Kahn's credibility out a lot. But to me that is the one standout positive move he has made. It doesn't balance out the Rubio pick, trading good players to get that pick, and then dealing other good players to have a little extra cap space one year earlier than otherwise.

Songalia and Smith are bench players, 7th-9th best players on a title team. Khan was right about the Wolves' talent base when he said that Jefferson could be the 2nd best player on a title team, and Love the 4th best.

That leaves a pretty important spot, doesn't it? #1 option on a title team? That's why Khan swung for the fences on Rubio, and even if he takes two years to come over, or ends up as trade bait, that was the right move. Rubio was one of the most highly regarded prospects in a weak draft. As Devilz has said multiple times - if its your opinion the Wolves should have passed on Rubio (or taken someone other than Flynn), who should they have taken? It's not like there was another highly regarded prospect at 5 that they passed on.

Wolves fans are optimistic because our GM is no longer planning for mediocrity.

Craig Smith and Darius Songaila, you're gonna argue they're worth more than cap space?

Passing on Rubio for Curry and keeping Smith/Songalia instead of capspace is exactly what Kevin McHale would have done. 'nuff said.

St.Nick wrote: their PF depth is non-existent.

You mean other than Jefferson, Love, Gomes, Cardinal and Pecherov. Basically, the Wolves top 3 returning players can play PF.

Worm Guts wrote:Craig Smith and Darius Songaila, you're gonna argue they're worth more than cap space?

I'd say so.

The Clippers traded an EC for Smith and the apparently bad contract of Telfair (I think he'll be a decent backup PG next year).

The Hornets traded an EC for Songalia and threw in a 2nd rd pick to get the deal done.

So both of these teams think they were worthy pickups for these supposedly very valuable expiring contracts.

I think Songalia is going to be an excellent addtion to the Hornets and I think Smith will show his worth as a backup PF that can exploit situations with his strength and low post scoring ability.

Perhaps these weren't very important moves in the long run, but to not look into them more deeply and just make a general statement that its good to be giving away any player that isn't considered to be a cornerstone for an expiring contract, I think thats an error in judgment. Thats especially so when the guys traded were in affordable short term deals.

If Kahn attains a big time player next offseason as a result of jettisoning Smith and Songalia, then I'll be wrong. But who can say which player is likely be had in 2010 because of these moves? Odds are it won't be a top gun like D-Wade, LeBron, Amare, or Bosh. So who are the guys you'll get thanks to cutting loose some quality players one year before they were going to become expiring contracts anyways?

Worm Guts wrote:

St.Nick wrote: their PF depth is non-existent.

You mean other than Jefferson, Love, Gomes, Cardinal and Pecherov. Basically, the Wolves top 3 returning players can play PF.

Love will be the guy at PF for no more than 33 mpg. Gomes is a fill in at PF when necessary, but I don't think he could be an effective backup PF on 90% of the teams in the league. Cardinal falls under the persona non grata category (or at least he should).

So you can't tell me that Sonalia or Smith would not have been miles better at backup PF than the guys there now.

At center I think you want Jefferson taking 35mpg, as Hollins and Pecherov are not meant to play more than 15 mpg. That certainly limits his PF minutes.

The frontcourt is a very weak position in terms of depth. Ryan Hollins, Stewie, and Brian Cardinal do nothing to make me think otherwise.

From what I'm gathering from the way your responses sound, you seem to be operating under the pretense of trying to win as many games as possible next season. We'll win what we can win, but next season is basically already shot, we know that. These moves set us up for a better future. Getting rid of Smith/Telfair/Songaila allows us to pursue better players next summer. Worst case scenario, we just sign Pekovic next summer and then our big man depth is fine (which is a very nice "worst case").

I don't understand why people think that just because Rubio isn't coming this season, he's a complete waste of a pick. That makes absolutely no sense any way you slice it. It's a bummer, I'll give you that, but the way people are talking they make it sound like the world is ending in 2 years so Rubio will never EVER play in the NBA...it just doesn't make sense.

St.Nick wrote:How is that such an amazing summer? Oh right....expiring contracts. All hail to the ever potent expiring contract and all of the ails that it cures!

We understand that as a Warriors fan, there are no such things as expiring contracts. Have fun with Corey Maggette and Stephen Jackson until 2013.

St.Nick wrote:So you can't tell me that Sonalia or Smith would not have been miles better at backup PF than the guys there now.

.

They might have been better, but I don't know how many time you need to be told it really doesn't matter this year. The guys like Cardinal and Pecherov are good enough to give backup minutes this year. The long term guys are Jefferson and Love, Hollins isn't great but his athleticism and size cover some of Love and Jefferson weaknesses. It's worth the short term down grade to open up enough cap room for a potential starter or at least for a better fit.

St.Nick wrote:

Worm Guts wrote:Craig Smith and Darius Songaila, you're gonna argue they're worth more than cap space?

I'd say so.

The Clippers traded an EC for Smith and the apparently bad contract of Telfair (I think he'll be a decent backup PG next year).

The Clippers aren't so position clogged as the Wolves. I'd say Telfair was moved as much to make room for Rubio as he was for his bad contract. Smith fits better with the Clippers than he does with the Wolves, because the Clippers some big centers. I don't really know the Clippers cap situation either, but we'll see if they even resign Smith.
Honestly this trade didn't even save that much cap space, it was mainly congestion relief.

St.Nick wrote:[
The Hornets traded an EC for Songalia and threw in a 2nd rd pick to get the deal done.

So both of these teams think they were worthy pickups for these supposedly very valuable expiring contracts.

I think Songalia is going to be an excellent addtion to the Hornets and I think Smith will show his worth as a backup PF that can exploit situations with his strength and low post scoring ability.

The Hornets are in a completely different situation than the Wolves, they're not below salary cap, they're trying to win now, and they needed a backup PF.

St.Nick wrote:Perhaps these weren't very important moves in the long run, but to not look into them more deeply and just make a general statement that its good to be giving away any player that isn't considered to be a cornerstone for an expiring contract, I think thats an error in judgment. Thats especially so when the guys traded were in affordable short term deals.

I'm not saying it's OK to give any player who isn't a cornerstone, but I do think it's OK to give up back end rotation guys who don't fit and have very little trade value. Cap space can turn into a starter, Smith or Sonagaila couldn't.

St.Nick wrote:If Kahn attains a big time player next offseason as a result of jettisoning Smith and Songalia, then I'll be wrong. But who can say which player is likely be had in 2010 because of these moves? Odds are it won't be a top gun like D-Wade, LeBron, Amare, or Bosh. So who are the guys you'll get thanks to cutting loose some quality players one year before they were going to become expiring contracts anyways?

There are probably 50 free agents next year who either better players or better fits than Songaila and Smith. I guarantee the Wolves will get one.