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Ty Lawson and Jonny Flynn and let them battle it out

I know we didn't know if Rubio was coming over or not but we should have kept him until the Rubio situation was solved.

Lets just hope Flynn turns out to be better than Lawson otherwise we'll be pissed

Foye wrote:Ty Lawson and Jonny Flynn and let them battle it out

I know we didn't know if Rubio was coming over or not but we should have kept him until the Rubio situation was solved.

Lets just hope Flynn turns out to be better than Lawson otherwise we'll be pissed

I believe the Wolves agreed to the trade with Denver prior to knowing that Lawson would still be available.

I'm just waiting for us to be one of those lucky teams who wind up getting a major steal. I was watching the Bucks game and they were talking about how Milwaukee finally caught a break and how their franchise was so deserving to luck out with Jennings at 10. I'm thinking, yea, the Bucks have kind of been in the dumps so they deserve a break but come on, the wolves have had way worse luck. At least the Bucks have gotten all-star caliber players like Redd and Ray Allen. They also landed a top 3 pick!

funkatron101 wrote:
I believe the Wolves agreed to the trade with Denver prior to knowing that Lawson would still be available.

I hate that excuse. Trading a pick before you know who's available isn't a viable excuse for missing out on a good player.
A viable excuse is that it would be ridiculous to draft 3 PG in the first round, and we got a good return.

Calinks wrote:I'm just waiting for us to be one of those lucky teams who wind up getting a major steal. I was watching the Bucks game and they were talking about how Milwaukee finally caught a break and how their franchise was so deserving to luck out with Jennings at 10. I'm thinking, yea, the Bucks have kind of been in the dumps so they deserve a break but come on, the wolves have had way worse luck. At least the Bucks have gotten all-star caliber players like Redd and Ray Allen. They also landed a top 3 pick!

Jennings seems like a punk. I'll take a solid-performing, good-character guy over someone with higher stats and a thuggy attitude any day.

Worm Guts wrote:

funkatron101 wrote:
I believe the Wolves agreed to the trade with Denver prior to knowing that Lawson would still be available.

I hate that excuse. Trading a pick before you know available isn't a viable excuse for missing out on a good player.
A viable excuse is that it would be ridiculous to draft 3 PG in the first round, and we got a good return.

I didn't really mean to use it as an excuse. It's just one of the things we have heard. I don't know when the terms of the trade were agreed upon. Certainly the draft didn't shake out like Kahn had thought it would. Perhaps the deal was made hours earlier and Kahn's draft board had Lawson out of reach. Or maybe Kahn didn't think Lawson was worth it?

The reasons you gave certainly are a good excuse.

Khan knew he was going to draft Flynn. When Rubio fell, he had to take him. Getting and keeping Lawson at that point is silly. The only player that was woth taking there was Earl Clark, and he was off the board. It was a good trade. Just wait till we get a top 5 pick out of it.

I would still do the trade today. That charlotte pick has a really good chance at being a higher pick in a deeper draft.

Flynn is gonna be better than Lawson anyway.

Dumb thread.

Worm Guts wrote:

funkatron101 wrote:I believe the Wolves agreed to the trade with Denver prior to knowing that Lawson would still be available.

I hate that excuse. Trading a pick before you know who's available isn't a viable excuse for missing out on a good player.
A viable excuse is that it would be ridiculous to draft 3 PG in the first round, and we got a good return.

I certainly agree with the second part. If experts are ripping us for drafting Flynn because it makes Rubio angry and unlikely to come over this year, how would Rubio respond if you drafted Flynn and Lawson? Moreover, is anyone really unhappy that we got Sessions on that cheap deal as a back-up?

I'm starting to hear more people say your first part, particularly after Chalmers last year, but let me give you a different way to think about it. Suppose the other team says, "We'll make the trade for your pick, but only if you do it right now .. before either of us knows the next few picks." Both teams are acquiring risk, and its a managable function. Remember, if we tossed out all those trades where they are done before the teams know what player will be available, we're basicly removing the ability to trade picks. We don't know who we will get with the UTA pick or the CHA pick, or even our own, for that matter. Trading picks always involves uncertainty, and trading one mid-draft is probably the least uncertain of these swaps.

We only wanted JJ with that pick. Once he went off the board we moved it for the future first to maintain flexability.

I'm specifically talking draft day trades. The Wolves knew what players could reasonably be available at 18, and traded the pick for a future 1st rounder where they have no idea who will be available. If the Wolves had really liked someone at 18, it would have made more sense to take the player they know they like, instead of trading the pick and hoping they get the opportunity to take someone they like in the future.

Do you think the wolves would have been intersted in Daye with the pick? Not that he has done much at this point, but he was kind of a fit as a long and tall shooting SF. Either way, the trade was a very savy move on our part in my estimation.

Worm Guts wrote:I'm specifically talking draft day trades. The Wolves knew what players could reasonably be available at 18, and traded the pick for a future 1st rounder where they have no idea who will be available. If the Wolves had really liked someone at 18, it would have made more sense to take the player they know they like, instead of trading the pick and hoping they get the opportunity to take someone they like in the future.

No. Let's imagine that we've had eleven picks in the draft and the Wolves draft board goes:

12. Ty Lawson
13. CHA future pick
14. Gerald Henderson
15. Tyler Hansbrough
16. Earl Clark
17. Austin Daye
18. Jrue Holiday

The Wolves have the #18 pick, when DEN says they'll trade the CHA pick right now if they can have #18.

At this point, the Wolves have to look at the other teams in the draft and decide the likelyhood that Ty Lawson is available for them to pick when they get to #18. Now, you may be right that they don't know that Lawson won't be availalable, but if they wait, they miss the chance at CHA's future pick.

If you wait to know who exactly is available at #18, you lose the opportunity costs, which in this case, was the future 1st. I don't think that it makes sense to always wait until you know who exactly will be available.

Wolves wanted James Johnson at #18. When he was gone at #16 they traded the pick to Denver for Charlotte's future 1st because the next prospects on the board were all PGs and we were kind of already stacked at that position with Flynn and Rubio.

I struggle understanding why people can't figure this out and just accept that we got a great return on a pick that didn't have many great options for us.

No. Let's imagine that we've had eleven picks in the draft and the Wolves draft board goes:

12. Ty Lawson
13. CHA future pick
14. Gerald Henderson
15. Tyler Hansbrough
16. Earl Clark
17. Austin Daye
18. Jrue Holiday

The Wolves have the #18 pick, when DEN says they'll trade the CHA pick right now if they can have #18.

At this point, the Wolves have to look at the other teams in the draft and decide the likelyhood that Ty Lawson is available for them to pick when they get to #18. Now, you may be right that they don't know that Lawson won't be availalable, but if they wait, they miss the chance at CHA's future pick.

If you wait to know who exactly is available at #18, you lose the opportunity costs, which in this case, was the future 1st. I don't think that it makes sense to always wait until you know who exactly will be available

You're right, it wouldn't always be the right decision. But it's a situation where the Wolves should have a decent guess at whether the player they want will be available. Missing out on a stud because you guessed wrong leaves you open to criticism.
I'll also say this, most teams won't trade for the pick unless they know the player they want is available. I think that was actually the case here. Minnesota and Denver didn't agree to the trade until Minnesota was on the clock.

I'd rather have the pick, it's a nice future asset and Lawson wouldn't be getting that many minutes here anyway.

C.lupus wrote:Flynn is gonna be better than Lawson anyway.

Flynn is a solid point guard and has a chance to be very good, but it still baffles me that people thought he was clearly superior to Lawson as a prospect.

Thus far, I think it is obvious that the two were much more similar than their respective draft positions and pre-draft hype would indicate.

No, Lawson doesn't have Flynn's vertical explosiveness.

But he is quicker with the ball in his hands, and his court vision is on an entirely different level. In terms of being a complementary piece on a team with lots of other weapons, Lawson is very likely the better player right now.

Not that one could blame the Wolves for taking Flynn, though. Lawson wouldn't have had those other weapons on the Wolves and his particular strengths wouldn't have been maximized here. Down the road when Minnesota is looking to win, Flynn is likely to have improved his ability to run a team by quite a bit.

Also, a point guard was obviously going to be the best prospect left on the board at #6. It just so happened that there were quite a few point guards bunched together and only so many teams were going to take a PG. A couple had to fall, and Denver should be commended for finding a great value pick in a draft that appeared to be quite short on value.

At the end of the day, both players are likely to be long-term starters in the NBA.

This just sounds like another ESPN article.

Report: Minnesota failed to draft/keep Blair, Jennings, Budinger, and Lawson. We knew these were the best players available for Minnesota, but we didn't want to tell you earlier, so we can tell you now how smart we were for knowing that.