RealGM

Dr.Krapinsky wrote:Based on Khan's convo it doesn't seem like he's entertaining trying to trade Jefferson at all.

Kahn is a good enough speaker to not give clues

I could see a radical move like this. The problem is there is only a small list of players I would move 1 for 1 with Al Jeff.

Lebron
D. Howard
D. Williams
B. Roy

Maybe, give me another piece (some big pieces, some little)
Durant
Paul
Iggy
Granger
Randolph
D. Rose
Lopez
Gallinari (Big other piece)
Josh Smith+Marvin Williams?
Mello
Gordon
Kevin Martin

Even with his poor season Al is still the 32 in value
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerrankings.php

Last year a fan poll on value had Al in the top 15.

I like Al, so moving him would need to be a big deal.

Anyone else here about this besides from PA?

(completely ignoring finances) Are you saying that if the Nuggets offered Carmello Anthony for Al straight up you'd say no? If the Hornets offered Chris Paul, you'd say no? Dwyane Wade isn't even worth consideration?

I'm sorry but you're overrating Al by an enormous amount

I knew my list would be the concern.

I did not ignore finances. Also, I worry that Wade's will only stay in a big market. I like wade, I would just be worried about building a team around him when he is an injury concern and older then Al,and would likely leave for a bigger market. It is the same risk with lebron, but Lebron is clearly worth it

Mello has a nasty contract. I would want something to make up some of the fiscal hurt. It would be a small piece, but a piece.

I think we could get CP for less than Al.

change wrote:I'm sorry but you're overrating Al by an enormous amount

I am sorry, but I utterly disagree. Could you provide something other than a backless opinion?

Al is a young post player with an incredibly rare skillset.
He likes MN
He is on a very nice contract
He is recovering from an injury so his value is lower than it should be.

Who do you add to the list that you would trade 1 for 1 for Al? Who did I miss that you would trade 1 for 1? I am not saying those teams do it, I am saying those are the players I would like. So who did I miss that I am overrating Al with?

Bosh
Bynum (not my favorite trade but some like it)
Bierdrins + Randolph + Morrow + pick for Jefferson + Sessions + Hollins

Off the top of my head.

Trading Al for a lesser player is not something I would do. I don't put many players on the same level as al overall when considering age/contract/etc. Theres probably 3 no brainers that would never happen, and 5 or so that are a wash for me.

Most realgm ppl have no idea how good al is. They don't watch the wolves and simply post quippy Randolph 2.0 remarks.

My 2 cents is that I'm fairly certain no other player commands as many double(and triple) teams as Al. Just 2-3 games ago they were sagging off(barely guarding) Flynn(and sessions) from the arc on right 3 point line to deny Al the ball. More or less double teaming Al without the ball in his hands. Did anyone else notice this?

The only teams I could see making packages are...

PDX, OKC, MEM (young teams with lots of assets that are playoff contenders)

maybe CHI?

Iommi wrote:(completely ignoring finances) Are you saying that if the Nuggets offered Carmello Anthony for Al straight up you'd say no? If the Hornets offered Chris Paul, you'd say no? Dwyane Wade isn't even worth consideration?

He's saying reasonable trades. Miami is not going to offer Wade straight up and Cleveland is not offering LeBron. So why list them?

Edit:
Wait a minute, Paul is on the "give me more" list. OK, maybe he is overvaluing Jefferson.

We sure need some type of trade.

I'll start off by saying if Minnesota moves Al, it's going to be because they want to rebuild with Love and maybe Flynn (though I wouldn't include him) as their main current pieces along with Rubio, Pekovic and draft picks to work with. Rambis and Kahn both would likely have equal say in the picks coming this year, because while they have to be talented, they need to fit the system Rambis uses.

I don't think getting a star or fringe-star player back is a necessity, but if one isn't coming back a high pick should be. Now, the Timberwolves don't want too many 1st round picks in one draft, especially if they are leaning towards that 10-30 range, because then you get into a situation where you have quantity, but not quality.. and the team would be trying to teach too many guys in one season.

Second, I'm not a big RealGM guy outside of reading threads here and there, so if you can explain that ranking to me, I would appreciate it. Does it take contract, age, injuries, and production into effect? Only some of them? Because I have a hard time believing that Nash ranks 2nd, Randolph ranks 11th, and Granger is 138th.

Now for ideas, I don't see why Washington would be a bad option for another deal. McGee is a guy who has the body and tools to be a good fit next to Love, just hasn't shown the skill yet. Butler represents a short deal and good production, though not someone who is going to fit the plan, but could hold great value next year if Kahn wants another prime asset. A deal like Butler, Stevenson (to give WAS more lux savings this year and next year - incentive if it's needed), McGee, and their top-3 protected first for Al, Sasha, and the UTA 1st seems fair value from my seat. They likely finish around 5th to 8th worst, even with the slight talent upgrade, because of Arenas being out.

There are likely better deals out there, but reportedly Rambis helped Bynum mature into a far better player, I'd like to see what he can do with McGee and his insane physical tools and basketball bloodline. Plus I'm a Butler fan, and a draft nut, so those two look pretty sweet as well.

revprodeji wrote:Even with his poor season Al is still the 32 in value
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerrankings.php

1 behind Baron Davis and 25 behind David Lee

Casperkid23 wrote:A deal like Butler, Stevenson (to give WAS more lux savings this year and next year - incentive if it's needed), McGee, and their top-3 protected first for Al, Sasha, and the UTA 1st seems fair value from my seat. They likely finish around 5th to 8th worst, even with the slight talent upgrade, because of Arenas being out.

Howdy Casper.
So why would you make the pick top 3 protected while giving up one of our picks at the same time?
I know you dislike Jefferson, but why would you sell him for less than everyone else thinks he's worth?
As a GM, the point of trading a popular and well liked player who likes being here MUST be to upgrade the team, not get what you consider equal value for an overrated player. If a player is overrated, then trade him for value equal to what other people rate him as. It's not whether or not YOU like Jefferson, it's whether or not the other team's GM likes him. And I'm fairly sure Washington's GM values Jefferson more than this, so he'd give up more to get him. Unprotect their pick for starters, and don't give them one of ours.

Even with that, I'd say no. Butler is not that guy to me. But others might like it.

I personally don't understand these Jefferson trade "rumors". Why would they deal him?

With that said... Butler, Blatche, 2012 1st rounder (top-5 protected) for Jefferson and Ellington?

Narf wrote:

Casperkid23 wrote:A deal like Butler, Stevenson (to give WAS more lux savings this year and next year - incentive if it's needed), McGee, and their top-3 protected first for Al, Sasha, and the UTA 1st seems fair value from my seat. They likely finish around 5th to 8th worst, even with the slight talent upgrade, because of Arenas being out.

Howdy Casper.
So why would you make the pick top 3 protected while giving up one of our picks at the same time?
I know you dislike Jefferson, but why would you sell him for less than everyone else thinks he's worth?
As a GM, the point of trading a popular and well liked player who likes being here MUST be to upgrade the team, not get what you consider equal value for an overrated player. If a player is overrated, then trade him for value equal to what other people rate him as. It's not whether or not YOU like Jefferson, it's whether or not the other team's GM likes him. And I'm fairly sure Washington's GM values Jefferson more than this, so he'd give up more to get him. Unprotect their pick for starters, and don't give them one of ours.

Even with that, I'd say no. But others might like it.

Because I don't think Washington, being deep in the lotto with Wall, Favors, and Turner in the draft, would make it without protection if they get lucky and move up. Including the UTA pick I felt was necessary to balance it out, but maybe I'm trying to give Washington too good of a deal to make it seem more realistic - though looking at it again I still think it's fair for Minnesota and Washington.

Butler is a good player. The value difference between he and Al, I feel, is made up with the differences between the two picks and McGee. Both Jefferson and Butler have had a history of injuries. To put it in terms of players, it would boil down to Jefferson and Stanley Robinson (mid/late-first UTA value) for Butler, McGee, and Xavier Henry (mid-lotto WAS value). Both picks could be delayed for one or more years, but it serves the point.

Yes, I'm not a fan of Al's, but I was just tossing out one idea I felt was fair since I don't see a ton of value in what Jefferson has brought the Timberwolves - even when the team is devoid of talent - so if they could potentially turn him into those three players I listed above, and Rambis can get McGee's head on straight, I would be elated.

Butler is a 16.5/6.5 SF who shoots 44% from the field and 31% from 3 in a good year. He's getting paid almost $10 mil this year and 10.56 mil next year, which is about 3.5 million more than he'd be paid as a free agent next year. He has a negative trade value.

JMO, but A proper trade for Butler is not Jefferson, it's cap space. My guess is Washington would trade him for an expiring.

Al Jefferson pisses me off. One night he's great, next game he runs into a good defender and goes for 5-15 or 6-17 shooting night, and this happened to him before the injury also. The only thing consistant about him is his trademark defense.

As for McGee, consider me a fan, I think he's got huge potential, could be one of the best shotblockers in the league, I remember reading about him being invited to that team USA tryouts for young players, Love played as well, and McGee looked good next to other young stars of the league, he's clearly needs to get on a young team that will get him an opportunity.

Narf wrote:Butler is a 16.5/6.5 SF who shoots 44% from the field and 31% from 3 in a good year. He's getting paid almost $10 mil this year and 10.56 mil next year, which is about 3.5 million more than he'd be paid as a free agent next year. He has a negative trade value.

JMO, but A proper trade for Butler is not Jefferson, it's cap space. My guess is Washington would trade him for an expiring.

He is coming off three straight years of 19-21ppg production, and plays quality defense. He's too old for the Timberwolves, which is his negative value, not the play on the court. Even if this is a down year for him, which is concerning since he's an old 29, you can't paint him as having negative trade value... no clue how you could.

Next year, as an expiring 10.6mil contract, he could fetch the Timberwolves some good value.

If you don't like the idea, then I guess you don't like the idea, but don't try to contort it by mislabeling values. I'm actually thinking Washington gives up a little too much looking it over a third time.

I think Butler, McGee and a top 3 protected first is as good a trade offer as we'll get honestly. If that's Turner, Favors, Henry or Aldrich, I could definitely entertain that offer. People seem to be assuming it's a lock Turner and Favors go 2-3 in some order, but I don't think that will be the case necessarily.

Of course, I wouldn't consider making the trade until draft day if that's the sort of offer we would get. Just because I wouldn't want to end up getting the Wizards 2011 pick #18 overall or something.

for the people that want to trade Al to improve our interior defense who are you targeting?

Haywood - probably wants to sign with a contender
Camby - probably also wants to sign with a contender
Bynum - scares the hell out of me. I don't trust him.
Pyrz - do we want to give a 28 year old recovering major knee surgery a huge contract? (assuming he opts out.)
Oden - I don't think he's ever going to be reliable
Aldrich - maybe
Noah - good help 'D' but not great man-to-man
McGee - I dont see it.
Kaman -?
Yao - only if we have pictures of Morey having a good time at the Bunny Ranch
Duncan - only if we have pictures of Buford helping other male patrons have a good time at said Bunny Ranch

anyone want to go to the Bunny Ranch? thoughts?

Narf wrote:

Iommi wrote:(completely ignoring finances) Are you saying that if the Nuggets offered Carmello Anthony for Al straight up you'd say no? If the Hornets offered Chris Paul, you'd say no? Dwyane Wade isn't even worth consideration?

He's saying reasonable trades. Miami is not going to offer Wade straight up and Cleveland is not offering LeBron. So why list them?

Edit:
Wait a minute, Paul is on the "give me more" list. OK, maybe he is overvaluing Jefferson.

LeBron was listed. As was Dwight Howard.