Kevin Love's Defense

[TheProdigy]

After two years of watching Kevin Love's development, it's clear to see that he has a very unique skillset. As a matter of fact, I can't think of another big man in history that can match his rebounding prowess and long range shooting ability(can you?). He's also very good at throwing outlet passes which will become more evident once Kahn adds more athletic wing players.

The main area that Love needs to improve upon is his defense. I doubt that he's ever going to be the type that blocks 2 shots a game. He's less than 6'8 without shoes, and has short arms for someone his size. He does a decent job with man to man defense, but his help defense is... well atrocious is the best way to describe it. When he's down low, opposing guards know that the paint is open for business.

As I said before, he's pretty short by NBA standards, so he's probably doomed as a defender right? Well I'd say that it's possible to be a great defending big man without being a shotblocker. Take a look at Ersan Ilyasova for example. The guy isn't overly athletic, but players think twice about driving to the hoop when he's in the paint. That's because he does a great job of stepping in front of penetrators to take charges. If Love were to add this element to his game, it would dramatically change my opinion of him. Think about how charges impact a game compared to a block.
1. Charges always lead to a change of possession, whereas blocks are sometimes recovered by the offense for another shot attempt.
2. Charges count as personal fouls, and can help put the other team over the foul limit.

Lucky for us, he's only 21 years old and has plenty of time to improve. That being said, he needs to realize that he's not starting because he has some major deficiencies in his game. Instead of sulking and complaining about it in the press, he should use it as motivation this summer to become a more well rounded player.

[Breakdown777]

I don't know if he's quick enough to be a charge taking master. He just seems too wide to get the call as much as other players do. I admit, it would still be a useful tool to incorporate, but I don't see this making him a defense stud enough where post D still wouldn't be a problem for him.

[Narf]

The main area that Love needs to improve upon is his defense. I doubt that he's ever going to be the type that blocks 2 shots a game. He's less than 6'8 without shoes, and has short arms for someone his size. He does a decent job with man to man defense, but his help defense is... well atrocious is the best way to describe it. When he's down low, opposing guards know that the paint is open for business.

Kevin Love was 6'7 3/4 without shoes on draft day, with a 6'11 1/4 wing span. He has since grown and is close to an inch taller now without shoes which is why he's an NBA 6'10 (with shoes on). His arms are also not short for his height. Further more, he has a 35 inch vertical and good agility. Anyone who claims he has short arms for someone his height is flat out lying and, quite frankly, playing the race card. It's old hat, we all can look at draft express's predraft measurements, enough already.

And "atrocious" is not the best way to describe his defense. Using actual words that describe it would be the best way to describe it. So describe it, what does he do that makes his defense "atrocious"?

[gensu3k1]

He needs to play defense like Karl Malone, using quick hands and strength IMO.

The bigger issue right now is his finishing around the basket. Needs a lot of work on his jumphook.

[prefuse73]

I agree with Narf, his measurments are not the problem, he is a legit NBA pf.

He simply just needs to get into better shape. It is possible to become more athletic (or at least max out your body's potential) and he needs to figure it out.

I also think he worries too much about his stats. I think he sags off his man to go grab rebounds. Like one of the quotes from NBA 2k10 my player, the day I stopped worrying about stats is the day I started winning. word up.

[GopherIt!]

He needs to play defense like Karl Malone, using quick hands and strength IMO.

The bigger issue right now is his finishing around the basket. Needs a lot of work on his jumphook.

Karl Malone agrees with this statement. Karl Malone believes that everyone should try to play the game like Karl Malone.

Sincerely,
Karl Malone

[Worm Guts]

The main area that Love needs to improve upon is his defense. I doubt that he's ever going to be the type that blocks 2 shots a game. He's less than 6'8 without shoes, and has short arms for someone his size. He does a decent job with man to man defense, but his help defense is... well atrocious is the best way to describe it. When he's down low, opposing guards know that the paint is open for business.

Kevin Love was 6'7 3/4 without shoes on draft day, with a 6'11 1/4 wing span. He has since grown and is close to an inch taller now without shoes which is why he's an NBA 6'10 (with shoes on). His arms are also not short for his height. Further more, he has a 35 inch vertical and good agility. Anyone who claims he has short arms for someone his height is flat out lying and, quite frankly, playing the race card. It's old hat, we all can look at draft express's predraft measurements, enough already.

And "atrocious" is not the best way to describe his defense. Using actual words that describe it would be the best way to describe it. So describe it, what does he do that makes his defense "atrocious"?

Where did you hear that Love has grown an inch since entering the NBA?

[Dewey]

He has grown atleast 1", but I don't think size has been an issue anyway when discussing his defensive limitations. His help defense IS poor down low, but tends to be okay up top on pick and rolls. When he is expected to go help under the basket, he (too) often opts to stay closer to his own man in order to maintain the rebound advantage. That leaves our strong-side defenders with little help. He has to learn to help more aggressively and rely on his weakside wing will drop and help rebound - then recover. I'm not sure why Rambis or any of the others on the staff don't address this ... it's not difficult to fix, but I suppose it's possible he's doing what he's told. However, Milicic does the exact same thing much better ... he seems to understand how to "help and recover" much better. Al constantly gets caught in no-mans land ... doesn't make it over to help and doesn't recover in time. Milicic uses his feet well and does not over commit to the ball, whereas, Al and Love still use their bodies and hands too much and get caught leaning the wrong directions and that's why they are usually unable to recover in time.

[Worm Guts]

He has grown atleast 1",

Did this come from a newspaper or interview or something? It's entirely possible, but I just want to know it doesn't come from somebody eyeballing it.

[mandurugo]

After two years of watching Kevin Love's development, it's clear to see that he has a very unique skillset. As a matter of fact, I can't think of another big man in history that can match his rebounding prowess and long range shooting ability(can you?). He's also very good at throwing outlet passes which will become more evident once Kahn adds more athletic wing players.

Current players? Troy Murphy (by %, actually Murphy shoots about 3 times as many 3's as Love) comes to mind.

Looking at Klomp's avatar it's hard to credit that Love has grown an inch. In the few games I've seen this year he still looks pretty undersized and slow. And that 35" vertical has proven to be a practice stat, is there anyone here who thinks he can jump anything close to that in traffic or in a game situation?

Actually I've never liked that standing jump measurement, wouldn't it be better if they gave them 10 seconds to jump as many times as they could and reported the number of jumps and the heights in that time limit - a little closer to a useful measurement.

[jade_hippo]

No one seems to have where Love grew an inch? I'd believe it I guess, I grew an inch between 22-23 years old. I can also see where it looks like Love has short arms, dude is incredibly stumpy looking, especially when he shares the court with Darko and Al and Brewer who are really lanky looking.

As far as taking charges, its mostly about anticipation and positioning, not speed and agility. Watch Joe Smith and AndersonV take charges. Anderson may flop like a rag doll, but you'll notice both of them are in position without too much work 9/10 time before the slasher turns the corner. Love 9/10 times is already boxing out before the slasher turns the corner... I think he has it in him to be a charge master, but it'll take a change of philosophy.

[dunkonu21]

The main area that Love needs to improve upon is his defense. I doubt that he's ever going to be the type that blocks 2 shots a game. He's less than 6'8 without shoes, and has short arms for someone his size. He does a decent job with man to man defense, but his help defense is... well atrocious is the best way to describe it. When he's down low, opposing guards know that the paint is open for business.

Kevin Love was 6'7 3/4 without shoes on draft day, with a 6'11 1/4 wing span. He has since grown and is close to an inch taller now without shoes which is why he's an NBA 6'10 (with shoes on). His arms are also not short for his height. Further more, he has a 35 inch vertical and good agility. Anyone who claims he has short arms for someone his height is flat out lying and, quite frankly, playing the race card. It's old hat, we all can look at draft express's predraft measurements, enough already.

And "atrocious" is not the best way to describe his defense. Using actual words that describe it would be the best way to describe it. So describe it, what does he do that makes his defense "atrocious"?

Have you ever considered that you may in fact be the one playing the race card by accusing someone else of playing the race card who really wasn't?

[Narf]

When people talk about how unathletic the white guy is to the point of lying about his measurements it's playing the race card. He's not slow, his arms are longer than average, he's not unathletic, and that's not the problem any more than it's the problem with Al Jefferson.

As far as where I've "heard" he grew I used my eyes. Look at how tall he is next to Jefferson as opposed to his first game, the man's grown. Just like Dwight Howard grew, you can just see it.

[horaceworthy]

Rehcserd Narf, if he's 6'10, then a 6'11" and 1/4 wingspan is a tad short by NBA standards. He's definitely slow and unexplosive by those standards as well. It's absolutely ludicrous to accuse somebody of playing the race card just for pointing that out.

[Narf]

Rehcserd Narf, if he's 6'10, then a 6'11" and 1/4 wingspan is a tad short by NBA standards. He's definitely slow and unexplosive by those standards as well. It's absolutely ludicrous to accuse somebody of playing the race card just for pointing that out.

Dah, I know mathses cuz I'm smart and Narf dumb.

He measured at 6' 7 3/4. His wingspan was 6'11 1/4. This is not hard to figure out. That's not short arms for his height.
He also had a 35 inch verticle.
He also had good sprint times and agility scores.
The OP was using his original measurements as his justification (measured under 6'8) for saying he was unathletic with short arms for his height.
And even if he grew up to 6'8 3/4 with a 9'0 standing reach, he would still not have short arms for his height.

The next time you post blatant fallacy you probably don't want to call the common sense answer (no those aren't short arms for his height) Absolutely Ludicrous.

[horaceworthy]

The only PF's in DX's measurements database that have had, or are expected to have, a modicum of success in the NBA while having a wingspan the same as Love or shorter are Blake Griffin, Troy Murphy, Carl Landry, Craig Smith, Udonis Haslem, Matt Bonner and Chuck Hayes. Not that long a list.

Combine scores don't equate to athleticism, and if you're going to begin a post with an attempt to insult somebody's intelligence, spell vertical correctly.

Go ahead and call someone on bullcrap if you think they post it, that's why people have called you on your "playing the race card" comment, which remains ludicrous.

[TheProdigy]

The main area that Love needs to improve upon is his defense. I doubt that he's ever going to be the type that blocks 2 shots a game. He's less than 6'8 without shoes, and has short arms for someone his size. He does a decent job with man to man defense, but his help defense is... well atrocious is the best way to describe it. When he's down low, opposing guards know that the paint is open for business.

Kevin Love was 6'7 3/4 without shoes on draft day, with a 6'11 1/4 wing span. He has since grown and is close to an inch taller now without shoes which is why he's an NBA 6'10 (with shoes on). His arms are also not short for his height. Further more, he has a 35 inch vertical and good agility. Anyone who claims he has short arms for someone his height is flat out lying and, quite frankly, playing the race card. It's old hat, we all can look at draft express's predraft measurements, enough already.

And "atrocious" is not the best way to describe his defense. Using actual words that describe it would be the best way to describe it. So describe it, what does he do that makes his defense "atrocious"?

LOL, you managed to call me a liar and a racist in one post. That's excellent stuff.

I really didn't want to get into a debate about whether someone is x height with y length arms, but some facts will do you some good. Based on Draftexpress' pre draft measurements dating back to when they consistently recorded wingspan lengths, Kevin Love's wingspan is 6' 11.25. The average wingspan for anyone that is listed as 6' 7.75 is 7' 0.57. Love's wingspan is 1.32 inches less than the average player his size. Yes an inch is negligible, but you accused me of being a lying racist so it's worth noting.

You claim that he's grown an inch since college which is a reasonable assumption but again you have no proof. To me, the difference in Al and Kevin's height is the same as it was the beginning of last year.

His defense is "atrocious" because he doesn't play team defense. Here's a few scenarios that Love struggles with:
1. Opposing guard gets into the paint, Love is closest big man and allows guard to get layup.
2. Opposing guard gets into paint, other big man steps up to contest shot, Love fails to rotate to defend big man's player.
3. Opposing big man posts up and requires double team, when double team comes, opposing big man passes out of the double and ball gets moved around the perimeter to a shooter in the corner whom Love is responsible for.

[AQuintus]

He measured at 6' 7 3/4. His wingspan was 6'11 1/4. This is not hard to figure out. That's not short arms for his height.

For the general population? He has very long arms.
For NBA Small Forwards? He's got pretty ideal measurements.
For NBA Power Forwards? He's got below average length.

He also had a 35 inch verticle.

And Amare Stoudemire and Dwight Howard had 35.5 inch verticals. So, going by the measurements, Love is almost as good at leaping as Amare and Dwight, correct?

He also had good sprint times and agility scores.

He actually had the exact same sprint time that Chris Paul had. So, going by the measurements, Love is just as fast end to end than Chris Paul, correct?

I personally Love Love's combine measurements because he's pretty much the poster child for just how useless those measurements are compared to the eyeball test. After all, anyone with eyes that had seen him in college knew that Love was a below average athlete for the NBA, and surprise, his play in the NBA has shown that to be true despite what his combine numbers say.

The OP was using his original measurements as his justification (measured under 6'8) for saying he was unathletic with short arms for his height.

The OP didn't actually say anything about his athleticism. It did, however, say that he had short arms for his size, and while that isn't true for the average person (a 1:1 height-wingspan ratio is average), it is short for the average NBA Power Forward.

[Rolf]

And "atrocious" is not the best way to describe his defense. Using actual words that describe it would be the best way to describe it. So describe it, what does he do that makes his defense "atrocious"?

"Atrocious" is an actual word, and it's a very good word to describe Love's help defense.

[jade_hippo]

And "atrocious" is not the best way to describe his defense. Using actual words that describe it would be the best way to describe it. So describe it, what does he do that makes his defense "atrocious"?

"Atrocious" is an actual word, and it's a very good word to describe Love's help defense.

i'd say its more lazy, but lazy is definitely atrocious