Miller for Expiring Contracts

[SpeedyG]

I think the point he's trying to make is that, while you can do things to improve yourself via FA, the best way to improve is still through the draft.

You talk about San Antonio being a playoff team before they got Duncan. Why were they a playoff team? 1987 - 1st pick overall David Robinson. 1989 - 3rd pick overall, Sean Elliot. Then they add Tim in 96...again another #1 pick overall.

Then you say that Boston improved because of trading. True, they got KG and Allen because of trades. But HOW did they get them? They gave up Gerald Green (#18) Al Jefferson (#15), along with the 5th pick overall in this year's draft. Had Boston not tanked and rebuilt, they would not have been in the position to get Green, Jefferson, and the 5th pick this year, and thus, would not have been in a position to acquire Allen and KG.

I think you (TheGrowth) are the one who is confused between retooling and rebuilding. The Lakers retooled when they traded Shaq for Odom, Butler, and Grant. The Blazers rebuilt when they let guys like Wallace, Wells go for virtually nothing and kept on stockpiling picks. The Knicks continue to retool (unsuccessfully I might add) by continually trading players that don't fit for other players they think might fit. You mentioned Utah. Yes, Boozer and Okur were FA signings, but those FA signings would not have been possible had the Jazz let their players go in order to be under the cap. Keep in mind, that one time, Utah actually HAD to sign players to be over the MINIMUM salary. And while Boozer and Memo were FA signings, Deron, AK, and Ronnie Brewer were all added through the draft.

Anyway, the point is, yes, you can hit lightning in a bottle via trades, especially if you have a good GM (Rod Thorn with Kidd, VC; Jerry West with Shaq, Kobe), but more often than not, your star players will come from the draft:

Here's a look at the best teams right now and their best players:

Boston - KG (acquired by trading a #15, #18 pick), Allen (acquired by trading a #5 pick), Pierce (drafted 10th overall), Rondo (#21)

Detroit - The exception to the rule for most of the "rules" on teams who won championships. Didn't have a star player when they won but still: Billups was a top 10 pick, Rip was a top 10 pick and they gave up Stackhouse who was a #3 pick overall in order to acquire him. Sheed was a high pick too when he came in.

Orlando - Dwight Howard #1 pick overall.

Cleveland - LBJ.

Miami - Wade was top 5. And while Shaq was acquired via trade when they won, they gave up Butler (top 10 pick) and Odom (also a top 10 pick, though not theirs) to get him.

NOH - Paul. West (#18). Chandler (top 5 pick).

Phoenix - Amare was a top 10 pick. Gave up Marion (top 10 pick) to get Shaq. In order to get Nash, gave up Kidd, then Marbury (both players drafted in top 5).

The NBA is rare in that majority of the star players in this league were high draft picks. It is rare to see an undrafted or 2nd round guys who rise to being "elite" in this league. This isn't the NFL were guys like Tom Brady and Terrell Davis and Zach Thomas get picked up in the 6th round or 4th round and have HoF type careers. The only way to get these top picks is through the draft, which means having to be one of the worst teams in the league.

Like I said, you'll have those rare chances where everything happens at the right time (like the Gasol deal, or the VC deal, or the Shaq/Kobe deal to LA) where you can get a steal. But more often than not, you'll need to have bargaining chips, to get what you want or need.

And in the NBA, the best bargaining chips are high draft picks (and expiring deals, thanks to lux tax).

[Netaman]

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Portland is not in the East so thats a moot point. Eventually they are going to have to trade their young players to compete in the West.

Portland is in a slump right now, but at one point they won 15 games in a row and were more then 10 games over .500 in the west, all without their franchise center. They will be a top contender over the next 5 years without making one deal. But if they need to make a deal they have plenty of young pieces to trade and some cap room thanks to the fact that they did a good job over the last 2 years of the rebuilding process.

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It seems you are confusing retooling with rebuilding. Utah for instance were not rebuilding, they added a few key players and it got them where they are now. Boozer and Okur were FA signings.

Rebuilding and retooling are the same thing. Retooling is just what people call rebuilding when you can do it quickly, and usually the only way that happens is if you get lucky with a lopsided trade or free agency. Whether a team is rebuilding or retooling, they are managing their team EXACTLY the same way- they are getting rid of deadwood players and contracts at the expense of short term success.

Most of the time people think of rebuilding as a long term, totally negative process because the franchises that are perpetually rebuilding do so with the same incompetent general managers and they repeat the same mistakes over and over again. When done right rebuilding does not take that long because after 2 years of high draft picks and a lot of cap room smart GMs are able to at least get teams into the middle of the pack.

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Weren't the Spurs in the playoffs prior to the year Robinson got injured?

Thats true but besides the point. They went into a rebuild mode, the only reason it didnt take longer was because they got lucky and got an immortal player. Had they gotten the 2nd overall pick that year and gotten Keith Van Horn instead of Duncan they would have been in the lottery the next season even with Robinson back healthy.

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Boston stockpiled young talent knowing they weren't going anywhere. Trades are what got them to championship status. If the Nets go that route then thats great, but if they honestly believe that going to the draft every year will help them build a contender, I think its foolhardy.

This comment doesn't really make sense. When you are running a franchise, in the NBA especially, you do whatever you can to get the best players possible. It is impossible to know ahead of time exactly how you are going to go about doing that.

The recipe for success in the NBA is simple. If you look at the last 30 NBA Champions every single team (except the Pistons) has had 1 of the top 5 players in the NBA on it. You need a star player to win, and it is that simple. Most of the time teams do not trade players like that, and even less frequently do those players hit free agency. The best chance to find one is through the draft. That doesn't mean you should ever go into any season looking to tank intentionally. It just shows that a commitment to the draft and rebuilding is necessary when a team comes to the end of its winning cycle (as the Nets are now).

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Dallas have been poor with the draft in the last few years, so have Phoenix. I don't know where you got the idea that they have been doing well with drafts. Lakers on the other hand I will give you that. But they also have some great vets in Kobe, Odom and Gasol. Odom and Gasol were both from trades

Your comments on the draft are shortsighted and totally wrong. When you look at the draft you can't just look 1 or 2 years into the past, but at least 5.

Dallas' core was built through the draft. Starting with Dirk, Harris, and Josh Howard. Phoenix has been incredible in drafting over the last 5 years starting with Amare, Diaw, and Barbosa. Go back a little further and they got Marion as well. Meanwhile over this same period of time poorly run franchises, like the Knicks or Hawks, consistently picked higher then these teams and either made the wrong choice or traded their picks for short term upgrades like Shareef Abdur Rahim or Eddy Curry.

Overall running an NBA franchise is a balancing act. You can't be a great team without an elite player. Elite players are very hard to find in the draft and when teams get them they rarely let them go. There are only 2 things you can do as a GM in the NBA to increase your chances of getting one- 1 put yourself in position where you can be lucky enough to draft 2 - Shed enough salary and stockpile enough lesser talents so that you can possibly trade/sign a great player if they should happen to become available. Rod Thorn is a smart GM, and knowing that Kidd is basically out the door either now or in 3 months he is going try his hardest to do both of those things so this team can turn things around as quickly as possible.

[TheGrowth]

The chances of picking superstar players in the draft are very slim. Banking on the draft solely for success is not smart. You have got to be smart about things like that. Thats my point from the get go. Rebuilding to me simply means jettisoning everything and going the draft route

[Netaman]

The chances of picking superstar players in the draft are very slim. Banking on the draft solely for success is not smart. You have got to be smart about things like that. Thats my point from the get go. Rebuilding to me simply means jettisoning everything and going the draft route

Nobody is advocating Jettisoning everyone, nor would that even be possible. The point is in order to retool you do need to acquire enough youth/draft picks to make the types of trades you want to make. Carter and RJ don't have the value to get anything substantial, if they did Rod Thorn would have done so 2 years ago when Kidd was younger and we still had more of a chance to win. If anything their values have both gone down since then.

At this point the best we can do is get as many assets as possible for Kidd and then piece by piece reconfigure this team. Another team may give us a a good bigman or a good young wing player for a package of picks and either RJ or VC. But if there isnt a team that will do that (which is highly likely since neither VC or RJ have proven they can do anything in the playoffs) what other alternative is there to dumping their contracts and trying to get more tradeable assets? Both are only getting older and less valuable as time goes on. Nobody plans on a straight rebuild but that may be the only option we have. Time will tell.