The Truth about 2010.

[amk482]

I think its actually 3 trades:

#1 - I think Magic first traded Lee to the Nets for the Marcus Williams TPE which expires near the end of July.

#2 - Then we traded Anderson to the Magic for a piece of the Dooling TPE they got last year, thus giving us a $1.2M TPE

#3 - Finally - we traded VC for Alston and Battie, and created a new TPE for 3.75

Basically, we extended the life of the TPE from Marcus Williams which was set to expire. I dont think they have reortedthis correctly, in that Dave D seems tot hink we have 3 TPEs (1.2 marcus, 1.2 Anderson and 3.75 VC trade), but I think we really only have 2 (1.2 anderson and 3.75 VC)

[NetsForce]

I think its actually 3 trades:

#1 - I think Magic first traded Lee to the Nets for the Marcus Williams TPE which expires near the end of July.

#2 - Then we traded Anderson to the Magic for a piece of the Dooling TPE they got last year, thus giving us a $1.2M TPE

#3 - Finally - we traded VC for Alston and Battie, and created a new TPE for 3.75

Basically, we extended the life of the TPE from Marcus Williams which was set to expire. I dont think they have reortedthis correctly, in that Dave D seems tot hink we have 3 TPEs (1.2 marcus, 1.2 Anderson and 3.75 VC trade), but I think we really only have 2 (1.2 anderson and 3.75 VC)

+1 this makes sense.

Though depending on what salary is used for Battie that $3.75 could be closer to $4.0...

If I use what I find on Storyteller's it's $3.75
If I use what I find on Shamsports it's $4.0

Whhhoooopppeeeee

[vincecarter4pres]

I think I got this figured out.
As far as I understand, we got one TPE out of this for a little over 1.3 million by trading Ryan Anderson in a seperate trade for part of an existing TPE.
If we got another one it was from the 2nd and only other trade, that being VC for Battie and Rafer Alston, which just works under the CBA's 125% + 125,000 rule after Battie's 10% trade kicker brings his salary up to about 6.93.
So again here is my question, because I am very confused as to how TPE get created. Why is one created in this trade? We are both over the cap, if we do a trade and take back less salary per the rules of the CBA, shouldn't it just come off our cap?
I though TPE are only created when one team is over the cap and they are sending back more salary then they are recieving because a team under the cap is flatout absorbing more then the 125% + 125,000, which in that instance would be allowed?
HELP!!!!

EDIT: OK, now I understand the 3rd trade amk is talking about with Lee for our existing TPE, I overlooked that, figuring Battie with 10% trade kicker and Rafer comes out to just enough to get them Vince under the CBA like I said above.

I am still a little confused on the 3.7 mill TPE created. I understand the math and the reason for the amount, but again, I don't see why it was created. Again I thought these are only created in instances when one team is actaully below the cap and is therefore absorbing salary with raw cap space and not just by the CBA 125% + 125,000 rule.

[amk482]

I think I got this figured out.
As far as I understand, we got one TPE out of this for a little over 1.3 million by trading Ryan Anderson in a seperate trade for part of an existing TPE.
If we got another one it was from the 2nd and only other trade, that being VC for Battie and Rafer Alston, which just works under the CBA's 125% + 125,000 rule after Battie's 10% trade kicker brings his salary up to about 6.93.
So again here is my question, because I am very confused as to how TPE get created. Why is one created in this trade? We are both over the cap, if we do a trade and take back less salary per the rules of the CBA, shouldn't it just come off our cap?
I though TPE are only created when one team is over the cap and they are sending back more salary then they are recieving because a team under the cap is flatout absorbing more then the 125% + 125,000, which in that instance would be allowed?
HELP!!!!

The only thing that matters with creating TPEs is how much salary is coming/going. If the Magic were under the CAP, we would still get a TPE, but the Magic would have used cap space, rather than using part of the Dooling TPE.

Remeber the Camby trade from Den to LAc last year? LAC were under the cap so they absorbed Camby. Denver still generated a $9M (approx) TPE.

[vincecarter4pres]

I think I got this figured out.
As far as I understand, we got one TPE out of this for a little over 1.3 million by trading Ryan Anderson in a seperate trade for part of an existing TPE.
If we got another one it was from the 2nd and only other trade, that being VC for Battie and Rafer Alston, which just works under the CBA's 125% + 125,000 rule after Battie's 10% trade kicker brings his salary up to about 6.93.
So again here is my question, because I am very confused as to how TPE get created. Why is one created in this trade? We are both over the cap, if we do a trade and take back less salary per the rules of the CBA, shouldn't it just come off our cap?
I though TPE are only created when one team is over the cap and they are sending back more salary then they are recieving because a team under the cap is flatout absorbing more then the 125% + 125,000, which in that instance would be allowed?
HELP!!!!

The only thing that matters with creating TPEs is how much salary is coming/going. If the Magic were under the CAP, we would still get a TPE, but the Magic would have used cap space, rather than using part of the Dooling TPE

I was actually posting an edit to the other post when you were posting this one.
So the 3.7 or so extra million Orlando absorbed in salary compared to what we are taking back in salary creates a TPE even though both of the teams were over the cap?
Are you sure, or are the guys like Dave D' not understanding this correctly and printing wrong info in their columns?
I mean salaries pretty much never match up exactly in the gazillion trades made every year and I don't see a very large amount or TPE's being created every year in reference to the amount of trades that has one team taking back extra salary. I mean the Shaq for Ben Wallace and Pavs trade that just went down had a difference of 2.25 million and yet I haven't seen anything mentioned as to a TPE being created in this trade.
Please explain?

[vincecarter4pres]

I think I got this figured out.
As far as I understand, we got one TPE out of this for a little over 1.3 million by trading Ryan Anderson in a seperate trade for part of an existing TPE.
If we got another one it was from the 2nd and only other trade, that being VC for Battie and Rafer Alston, which just works under the CBA's 125% + 125,000 rule after Battie's 10% trade kicker brings his salary up to about 6.93.
So again here is my question, because I am very confused as to how TPE get created. Why is one created in this trade? We are both over the cap, if we do a trade and take back less salary per the rules of the CBA, shouldn't it just come off our cap?
I though TPE are only created when one team is over the cap and they are sending back more salary then they are recieving because a team under the cap is flatout absorbing more then the 125% + 125,000, which in that instance would be allowed?
HELP!!!!

The only thing that matters with creating TPEs is how much salary is coming/going. If the Magic were under the CAP, we would still get a TPE, but the Magic would have used cap space, rather than using part of the Dooling TPE.

Remeber the Camby trade from Den to LAc last year? LAC were under the cap so they absorbed Camby. Denver still generated a $9M (approx) TPE.

Yeah, but that is my point. In that trade a TPE was created because LAC had cap space and used it to absorb Camby's salary, while Denver was over the cap and didn't take back any salary at all, hence the reason a TPE was created for the amount of raw cap space that was used in relation to Camby's salary that was absorbed by LAC. If LAC didn't have the cap space to absorb Camby's contract then they would have been forced to send back at least 75% - 125,000K of Camby's 08-09 salary as another player of theirs who was under contract because Denver would be required to take back that amount of salary when making a transaction with another team which is over the cap, per the rules of the CBA.

[NetsForce]

Shaq: $21,000,000

Wallace: $14,500,000
Pavlachick: $4,500,000
(Total: $19,000,000)

The Suns get a $2 million dollar trade exception. They send out more $$$ than they received $21 vs. $19 million.

Shaq: $21,000,000
Tucker: $1,001,880
(Total: 22,001,880)

Wallace: $14,500,000
Pavlachick: $4,500,000
(Total: $19,000,000)

The Suns don't get a trade exception because they traded away multiple players (aggregates).

So to answer your question unless I misread something the Suns did get a TPE. I provided the second example with Dudley to show you why TPE's are not always created...

If you want to get into the nitty gritty read through this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=763437

Trades do not have to look the same from both sides. They can be split up into smaller deals so TPE's are created... In general the trades are always reported as one big deal though...

As for "trusting" Dave D. he's been wrong in the past with "his" numbers so I wouldn't be surprised if he's wrong again... What he writes about the players themselves is insightful but what he writes about the cap, player salaries etc., needs to be taken with a grain of salt as that's clearly not one of his strong points...

[vincecarter4pres]

I was always under the impression that TPE's were strictly created in trades where one team was absorbing salary with cap space without sending equal salary back.
I guess I was misinformed, so I'll take your word for it.

[NetsForce]

First post has been updated with new spreadsheet, the only thing I'm not sure about is Rafer Alston's contract as amk 482 said that he recalls reading somewhere that Alston's contract is fully guaranteed for this season...

[deviljets7]

according to this link, Rafer's contract became guaranteed if he was active for 70 games in 08/09 (he played 77)

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... XQQ&gid=24

[clifffside]

-We have good wing defenders in Lee and Twill. Lee is also shooter which is key
-Good high energy bench players in CDR and Dooling who can also score
-We have a promising post presence in Brook Lopez who I think can eventually give you consistent 15ppg/10rpg/2blk seasons
-We have a good all-around point guard in Devin Harris who is amongst the quickest and best defensive at his position
-We have a big man in Yi who has the potential to stretch a defense, which seems to be key in today's NBA
-We have solid post defenders and decent rebounders in Boone and Swat. They can come off the bench and give the 4 and 5 a good breather
-This team is stuffed with good defensive talent who can get up and down the court

Basically we have a nice shiny toy (supporting cast) with no batteries included (superstars).

I think we need a big time PF to be a rebounding presence and a big time SG/SF who can do everything, but most importantly score.


What would be your plot for 2010?