Where is GUMP when I need him???

[enetric]

Thanks for breaking it down Gump.

Let me ask...in your opinion...worth trading for Boozer now if we want to be able to sign him and another? Can it be worked out?


I mean...as we stand....we keep hearing that we CAN offer two max contracts next summer. Do you dispute that? Why would Boozer make the second one so hard to do if its true we are already set up to do it in free agency?


Clearly my hope was that you would say its possible to work out a way to trade for Boozer...use his UFA status next summer as an angle to resign him as well as two others as long as we dumped all guys with holds that outweight their value to us...Dooling, Najera, and Boone.

But from what you are saying...it will be hard to sign two... Boozer and another if we were to trade for him. So what if we dont? Is Rod thorn wrong? Are we going to struggle to have the cash to make two max offers as is, no trade for Boozer?

[Hansel]

One other thing that I think keeps getting exaggerated is the type of veteran pieces that need to be in place to sign one of these studs, especially LeBron. He knows how good he is. I'd argue Harris as by far the second best player on last year's Cavs team if he was in Cleveland. Prior to Shaq, Brook would obviously have been their best post threat. Eventually will command a double-team. Athletes on the wing and another top pick in 2010. Obviously LeBron's terrible core didn't get him a title which is why he wants to leave, but I'm just saying that a guy like Boozer doesn't have to be in place BEFORE LeBron.

What the Knicks are trying to do with Kidd is so stupid. There is no way a 37 year old PG is going to be enticing to LeBron, even if they are friends and liked playing with each other in Beijing. Harris is far more appealing. Not just that, but does anyone doubt that LeBron will get a second FA to come play with him? Bosh, Johnson, etc. So Boozer in place doesn't mean THAT much IMO. I'd argue that we're just as appealing (if not more appealing) going into FA with our current core + a top pick in next year's draft + two max contract than our current core + a teens pick + Boozer + one max contract. And by doing the former rather than the latter, we're definitely in a better future position if we were to strike out on the superstar FAs and had to just add some fringe guys. Hell, add Boozer then if you still want him. Keep with the plan for the time being.

[lurkingobeiscity]

At this point...I am just so happy to see you here....

Dude, this ^^ - combined with the thread title ("I need him") - is sooooooooooooooo gay !!!!!!!!!!! ~laffin~

Glad to hear you're doing well, though. It's been quite a while since we locked horns in immortal forum combat.

You should see it when Guy Smiley rolls around.

[enetric]

At this point...I am just so happy to see you here....

Dude, this ^^ - combined with the thread title ("I need him") - is sooooooooooooooo gay !!!!!!!!!!! ~laffin~

Glad to hear you're doing well, though. It's been quite a while since we locked horns in immortal forum combat.

You should see it when Guy Smiley rolls around.

You are just jealous Lurking...

[enetric]

One other thing that I think keeps getting exaggerated is the type of veteran pieces that need to be in place to sign one of these studs, especially LeBron. He knows how good he is. I'd argue Harris as by far the second best player on last year's Cavs team if he was in Cleveland. Prior to Shaq, Brook would obviously have been their best post threat. Eventually will command a double-team. Athletes on the wing and another top pick in 2010. Obviously LeBron's terrible core didn't get him a title which is why he wants to leave, but I'm just saying that a guy like Boozer doesn't have to be in place BEFORE LeBron.

What the Knicks are trying to do with Kidd is so stupid. There is no way a 37 year old PG is going to be enticing to LeBron, even if they are friends and liked playing with each other in Beijing. Harris is far more appealing. Not just that, but does anyone doubt that LeBron will get a second FA to come play with him? Bosh, Johnson, etc. So Boozer in place doesn't mean THAT much IMO. I'd argue that we're just as appealing (if not more appealing) going into FA with our current core + a top pick in next year's draft + two max contract than our current core + a teens pick + Boozer + one max contract. And by doing the former rather than the latter, we're definitely in a better future position if we were to strike out on the superstar FAs and had to just add some fringe guys. Hell, add Boozer then if you still want him. Keep with the plan for the time being.

I do not think Lebron will go to NY because of Kidd either. However, I dont think that's what its all about. I think its more about Dantoni. Clearly his system is maxed with a pass first PG. Nash went from having Rod Stricklands career to being seen as an all time great by most (not by me).

In a league with so few pass first PG's...why not grab th best of his generation...one of the greatest ever while he can still play if its low cash?

Having said that...i will still be shokced to see Kidd go. he wont take millions less for a wink and a handshake from Lebron. he knows things change all the time. he used to say all the time to guys...you have to do whats best for you. Even on the Nets.

If lebron goes to NY...he is going because he thinks long term...this is the best spot for my career...financially being the deciding factor that helps them over everyone.

If its a best of both worlds...and Brooklyn is a lock...yeah...we could be a better bet. But....I do not see Kidd as the deciding factor.

As for Harris? A year is a long time. Let see what happens. Lets not forget injuries change things for everyone. One sec Nenad was a future allstar in the making a legit trade chip...next sec he is done. Lets just get there in one piece.

And btw...i think Kidd will be in Dallas next season...or a third team emerges with a better chance to put a ring on his finger. Millions less so he can be closer to his kids during the season? Just do not buy it.I would sooner buy a legacy argument to pad assists. And I dont even think thats it. Kidd will most likely be in Dallas...he wants ot be sure they are motivated. Its Zo all over again.

[Hansel]

One other thing that I think keeps getting exaggerated is the type of veteran pieces that need to be in place to sign one of these studs, especially LeBron. He knows how good he is. I'd argue Harris as by far the second best player on last year's Cavs team if he was in Cleveland. Prior to Shaq, Brook would obviously have been their best post threat. Eventually will command a double-team. Athletes on the wing and another top pick in 2010. Obviously LeBron's terrible core didn't get him a title which is why he wants to leave, but I'm just saying that a guy like Boozer doesn't have to be in place BEFORE LeBron.

What the Knicks are trying to do with Kidd is so stupid. There is no way a 37 year old PG is going to be enticing to LeBron, even if they are friends and liked playing with each other in Beijing. Harris is far more appealing. Not just that, but does anyone doubt that LeBron will get a second FA to come play with him? Bosh, Johnson, etc. So Boozer in place doesn't mean THAT much IMO. I'd argue that we're just as appealing (if not more appealing) going into FA with our current core + a top pick in next year's draft + two max contract than our current core + a teens pick + Boozer + one max contract. And by doing the former rather than the latter, we're definitely in a better future position if we were to strike out on the superstar FAs and had to just add some fringe guys. Hell, add Boozer then if you still want him. Keep with the plan for the time being.

I do not think Lebron will go to NY because of Kidd either. However, I dont think that's what its all about. I think its more about Dantoni. Clearly his system is maxed with a pass first PG. Nash went from having Rod Stricklands career to being seen as an all time great by most (not by me).

In a league with so few pass first PG's...why not grab th best of his generation...one of the greatest ever while he can still play if its low cash?

Having said that...i will still be shokced to see Kidd go. he wont take millions less for a wink and a handshake from Lebron. he knows things change all the time. he used to say all the time to guys...you have to do whats best for you. Even on the Nets.

If lebron goes to NY...he is going because he thinks long term...this is the best spot for my career...financially being the deciding factor that helps them over everyone.

If its a best of both worlds...and Brooklyn is a lock...yeah...we could be a better bet. But....I do not see Kidd as the deciding factor.

As for Harris? A year is a long time. Let see what happens. Lets not forget injuries change things for everyone. One sec Nenad was a future allstar in the making a legit trade chip...next sec he is done. Lets just get there in one piece.

And btw...i think Kidd will be in Dallas next season...or a third team emerges with a better chance to put a ring on his finger. Millions less so he can be closer to his kids during the season? Just do not buy it.I would sooner buy a legacy argument to pad assists. And I dont even think thats it. Kidd will most likely be in Dallas...he wants ot be sure they are motivated. Its Zo all over again.

The only way Harris isn't far better than Kidd in 2010 is if Harris has some kind of career-threatening injury. I can't think in those terms though, because then so many scenarios could be looked at like that. Harris is better than Kidd right now IMO, or at least on par. 1 more year of Kidd's defense getting comical and I don't expect it to be close.

And yeah... Brooklyn... please happen. PLEASE HAPPEN. Damn I'll probably be living in Brooklyn in a few years, it would be amazing.

[vincecarter4pres]

The Gortat signing is interesting as well.
I really want to see what this guy looks like when he is starting, playing starters minutes and he isn't just a spark plug/hustle guy off the bench for spot minutes.
Also, what is Dallas going to do without Bass as their offensive sparkplug?
Granted, Dallas ain't done dealing yet.
This might go down as one of the most parody filled seasons in God knows how long.

[FGump]

As for locking horns...from what I hear you dont show up anymore since I stopped posting. I always knew you just couldnt stay away if I put out the catnip....

Haha. Things here got boring once they missed out on KG - and it became time to tear down and rebuild. (I still think their window would have been to chase Gasol with their "KG assets" rather than wait, an idea which no one here seemed to like but I still think that was the realistic target that would have changed their fortunes.)

And while I like Devin Harris as a person, I'm not anywhere near as sold on him as the centerpiece of a contender, which is another reason for me not to wander here. I know the board here likes what he offers, and I don't feel like trying to rain on their parade.

Let me ask...in your opinion...worth trading for Boozer now if we want to be able to sign him and another? Can it be worked out?

I think now would be a great time to try to land Boozer. But Utah has major cap/tax/payroll issues right now, and Boozer is an expiring and very talented, so what do you have that would motivate them to deal? I don't see it.

I mean...as we stand....we keep hearing that we CAN offer two max contracts next summer. Do you dispute that?

With the numbers we've been talking above, nope there's not cap room for two max players at 16-18M. But there's time to alter the landscape. Or you can call Boozer one "max" player while giving him 13M, perhaps.

But from what you are saying...it will be hard to sign two... Boozer and another if we were to trade for him. So what if we dont? Is Rod thorn wrong? Are we going to struggle to have the cash to make two max offers as is, no trade for Boozer?

see prior note ...there's time to alter the landscape ...also, the assumptions being given here (which I didn't question) might be far from accurate and Thorn may think he can erase everyone but Harris, Lopez, and the picks

[enetric]

One other thing that I think keeps getting exaggerated is the type of veteran pieces that need to be in place to sign one of these studs, especially LeBron. He knows how good he is. I'd argue Harris as by far the second best player on last year's Cavs team if he was in Cleveland. Prior to Shaq, Brook would obviously have been their best post threat. Eventually will command a double-team. Athletes on the wing and another top pick in 2010. Obviously LeBron's terrible core didn't get him a title which is why he wants to leave, but I'm just saying that a guy like Boozer doesn't have to be in place BEFORE LeBron.

What the Knicks are trying to do with Kidd is so stupid. There is no way a 37 year old PG is going to be enticing to LeBron, even if they are friends and liked playing with each other in Beijing. Harris is far more appealing. Not just that, but does anyone doubt that LeBron will get a second FA to come play with him? Bosh, Johnson, etc. So Boozer in place doesn't mean THAT much IMO. I'd argue that we're just as appealing (if not more appealing) going into FA with our current core + a top pick in next year's draft + two max contract than our current core + a teens pick + Boozer + one max contract. And by doing the former rather than the latter, we're definitely in a better future position if we were to strike out on the superstar FAs and had to just add some fringe guys. Hell, add Boozer then if you still want him. Keep with the plan for the time being.

I do not think Lebron will go to NY because of Kidd either. However, I dont think that's what its all about. I think its more about Dantoni. Clearly his system is maxed with a pass first PG. Nash went from having Rod Stricklands career to being seen as an all time great by most (not by me).

In a league with so few pass first PG's...why not grab th best of his generation...one of the greatest ever while he can still play if its low cash?

Having said that...i will still be shokced to see Kidd go. he wont take millions less for a wink and a handshake from Lebron. he knows things change all the time. he used to say all the time to guys...you have to do whats best for you. Even on the Nets.

If lebron goes to NY...he is going because he thinks long term...this is the best spot for my career...financially being the deciding factor that helps them over everyone.

If its a best of both worlds...and Brooklyn is a lock...yeah...we could be a better bet. But....I do not see Kidd as the deciding factor.

As for Harris? A year is a long time. Let see what happens. Lets not forget injuries change things for everyone. One sec Nenad was a future allstar in the making a legit trade chip...next sec he is done. Lets just get there in one piece.

And btw...i think Kidd will be in Dallas next season...or a third team emerges with a better chance to put a ring on his finger. Millions less so he can be closer to his kids during the season? Just do not buy it.I would sooner buy a legacy argument to pad assists. And I dont even think thats it. Kidd will most likely be in Dallas...he wants ot be sure they are motivated. Its Zo all over again.

The only way Harris isn't far better than Kidd in 2010 is if Harris has some kind of career-threatening injury. I can't think in those terms though, because then so many scenarios could be looked at like that. Harris is better than Kidd right now IMO, or at least on par. 1 more year of Kidd's defense getting comical and I don't expect it to be close.

And yeah... Brooklyn... please happen. PLEASE HAPPEN. Damn I'll probably be living in Brooklyn in a few years, it would be amazing.

I wasnt comparing Kidd to Harris. Oh no. I just do not think that is the priority. As in...Lebron wont be chosing who do I want to play with from those two. I do not see this move from Kidd or NY's standpoint as relevant to Harris and Nj at all.

[enetric]

As for locking horns...from what I hear you dont show up anymore since I stopped posting. I always knew you just couldnt stay away if I put out the catnip....

Haha. Things here got boring once they missed out on KG - and it became time to tear down and rebuild. (I still think their window would have been to chase Gasol with their "KG assets" rather than wait, an idea which no one here seemed to like but I still think that was the realistic target that would have changed their fortunes.)

And while I like Devin Harris as a person, I'm not anywhere near as sold on him as the centerpiece of a contender, which is another reason for me not to wander here. I know the board here likes what he offers, and I don't feel like trying to rain on their parade.

Let me ask...in your opinion...worth trading for Boozer now if we want to be able to sign him and another? Can it be worked out?

I think now would be a great time to try to land Boozer. But Utah has major cap/tax/payroll issues right now, and Boozer is an expiring and very talented, so what do you have that would motivate them to deal? I don't see it.

I mean...as we stand....we keep hearing that we CAN offer two max contracts next summer. Do you dispute that?

With the numbers we've been talking above, nope there's not cap room for two max players at 16-18M. But there's time to alter the landscape. Or you can call Boozer one "max" player while giving him 13M, perhaps.

But from what you are saying...it will be hard to sign two... Boozer and another if we were to trade for him. So what if we dont? Is Rod thorn wrong? Are we going to struggle to have the cash to make two max offers as is, no trade for Boozer?

see prior note ...there's time to alter the landscape ...also, the assumptions being given here (which I didn't question) might be far from accurate and Thorn may think he can erase everyone but Harris, Lopez, and the picks

KG closed the window. Funny on gasol though. In the end...they go no where near RJ and nenad or what VC was then did they?

Although that trade is suspicious like no other. And with my hatred of all things Kobiatch makes me sick that they bailed him oiut of his one round and out career pattern that was emerging before he demanded a trade. Amazing how stealing Gasol for absolutely nothing changed everything in his career.

You know what irks me> How often i have to hear or read Kobe or Mj? Not just because MJ was better than him in ebveryt single area except perhaps 3 point shooting..but its because it implies Kobe is the second best player ever. He isnt close to second best. Top 20 sure. Want to say closer to 10...I wont argue, But he isnt the best player since MJ passed the torch. That torch went to his then teammate Shaq who all time still better by a mile.

I would argue that during that era TD and Kg were both better than Kobe. And after Shaq passed te torch...am i sure it went to Kobe? No. I think it went directly to lebron. and if Kobe did have it...it was briefly because Lebron has it now. Title or no title. One makes other better. The other has to have stars around him to be at this level. What Lebron has done with that bunch of medicrity is astounding to me.

Devin harris. I agree completely with you, I think we got huge vale for an aged Kidd. And I think after Kg time to rebuild, However...he is no franchise talent. Not a good franchise anyway. And i would re deal him down the road in the right deal in a heart beat. Good trade for the Nets...but i am with you.

Boozer. The ony reason Boozer came up is due to the odd rumor they wanted him to opt out and then let him go so they could have Milsap instead. Maybe the rumor is a lie. But we were operating under the asumption they wanted to dump him. So? Could we steal him with saving them the 25% giving a pick and perhaps getting Dooling our of here as that he is on the books for next year? Guys say he has a 500k buyout...so perhaps that helps them even more. Looking to dump Boone in there he has a qualifying for next summer...give up crap basically, Not a fair offer. Looking for our gasol like steal as you said with Stack.

Those are always fun to dream about. All based on a rumor though.

[enetric]

The Gortat signing is interesting as well.
I really want to see what this guy looks like when he is starting, playing starters minutes and he isn't just a spark plug/hustle guy off the bench for spot minutes.
Also, what is Dallas going to do without Bass as their offensive sparkplug?
Granted, Dallas ain't done dealing yet.
This might go down as one of the most parody filled seasons in God knows how long.

I love Gortat. I feel about him the way I felt about Okur. Just have this feeling he is going to be one of those guys you let walk and then kick yourself later.

[Hansel]

Yeah, I agree. Gortat is going to be a player.