Official Game Thread: Los Angeles vs New Jersey Nets

[therealbig3]

It was actually a study by the Sloan Analytics Conference, I can't find the exact study from them, but here's a website that basically explains it:

http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-valu ... ans-blocks

As [Huizinga] explained, through a series of charts, Tim Duncan has had the best season in history when it came down to value/block with 1.12, meaning he saved 1.12 points with every block and Dwight Howard ended up with the worst season in terms of value/block with with .53 (both came during the 2008 season).

[treiz]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2pdSw05iGU[/youtube]

"Humphries gums Griffin"

Gotta love Ian. Still though what a great block, timed that to perfection.

[SpeedyG]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2pdSw05iGU[/youtube]

"Humphries gums Griffin"

Gotta love Ian. Still though what a great block, timed that to perfection.

LMAO....look at Hump after the block. He was fighting so hard not to laugh and smirk after it

[Rich Rane]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrIRDYUWIAQ[/youtube]

[JoseRizal]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrIRDYUWIAQ[/youtube]

[Keith Van Horn]

"I had a rebound and I guess he wanted to dive after it and took my legs out, rolled my ankle and rolled my knee," said Griffin, who finished with 28 points and 17 rebounds. "The knee is good, but the ankle might be a little bit swollen, But it won't be anything that holds me back. I'll get some treatment on it tomorrow and be ready to go."

lol "I guess he wanted to dive after it"...? Really? You think other people just might want to play as hard as you do? Stop complaining. It's part of the game. If you're all about giving it out you better be able to take it.

You got Humped last night Blake. Deal with it.

[N Ireland Nets]

Was thinking about last nights game and how potentially, if we get Howard, the Nets vs the Clippers could be an NBA finals.

Thats insane when you sit back and think about it. Two franchises that were the butt of all jokes for years could be fighting for a title

[jzmagik]

Was at the game, incredible finish!

[Ronito]

Hump and Blake hate each other, it's awesome to watch. It's also awesome how Hump outworks just about anyone and even though he isn't that good, he doesn't take **** from anyone. Gets into everyone's head (see: Melo, Chandler).

I remember Hump outplayed Blake last year in both games.

[NyCeEvO]

"I had a rebound and I guess he wanted to dive after it and took my legs out, rolled my ankle and rolled my knee," said Griffin, who finished with 28 points and 17 rebounds. "The knee is good, but the ankle might be a little bit swollen, But it won't be anything that holds me back. I'll get some treatment on it tomorrow and be ready to go."

lol "I guess he wanted to dive after it"...? Really? You think other people just might want to play as hard as you do? Stop complaining. It's part of the game. If you're all about giving it out you better be able to take it.

You got Humped last night Blake. Deal with it.

Haha...everytime Hump makes a big play, we should say "He got Humped!"

[enetric]

In terms of overall defense, to me, man defense is overrated, it's your help defense that matters most. And Duncan would guard guys like Sheed and KG when they matched up. The guys he didn't guard were Dirk and Shaq, two of the biggest mismatches in NBA history. Even KG was lit up by Dirk, and I think it's wise for a team that depended on Duncan so much to keep him away from Shaq from the most part. You could point to Stoudemire lighting up Duncan in the playoffs, but I would argue that a lot of that was strategy (letting Nash and Stoudemire get theirs, take away everyone else...it worked), and I believe I saw a Suns fan break it down before...he basically said whenever Amare went one on one offensively against Duncan, Duncan owned him. It was mainly off the PnR, which Nash is one of the GOATs at executing, that Stoudemire did his damage. Duncan is my personal favorite player of all time, and I think his defensive IQ was ridiculous, he's anchored some of the best defensive teams of all time, and I think a large part of that is his understanding of defense and knowing where to position himself at all times. I would definitely put him in the super elite class of defensive big men.

I won't argue Dwight being one of the most impressive defensive big men ever though. He is. Better than Mourning or Mutombo ever were, imo. Just not quite in the Duncan/Hakeem/Russell/KG class imo. They knew how to position themselves better, they didn't rely on pure athleticism as much, and like I said, I think they were more concerned with saving possessions than highlight reel blocks. Howard's rebounding is damn impressive though, on the PC board, someone went as far as saying he was the best defensive rebounder of all time, and I think looking at his DRB% numbers, it is defensible.

As far as KG, I was mainly referring to the +/- numbers, which have had him as the best per minute defender in the league pretty much every year for a while now...based on them, you could say that the only reason he's not the best overall defender in the league still is because of playing time.

They've actually done a study, forget where I saw it, in which they concluded that Howard by far blocks the most shots out of bounds, while Duncan by far blocks the most shots in bounds and saves possessions for his team. I'll try and find it. I think at that point, you're kind of going for the aesthetic appeal of the block, which does give the other team more chances at scoring. I'd be interested in seeing how many extra baskets the opposing team scored as a result, compared to Duncan. Don't know if they looked at that or not.

Bull crap to man to man D being overrated. That's just nonsense. Its a man to man league and a stars league. I have an issue with guys who spend most of their time staying fresh on the defensive side...pick up some blocks steals or boards and because they are stars...they make repeated all D teams. Kobe and TD top that list. Great players...capable of great D. But an elite defender has to be a stopper as well.

ANd no TD DID NOT guard those guys for the majority of his minutes on the floor so that was simply false. That was always my beef. They would guard him and then it would be Drob or Nesterovic guarding them for all but a handful of minutes.

Td is a great all time player. But its always his fans who say man to man D is overrated because he didnt play much of it. I agree he was a great anchor. But it was as great rebounder and shot blocker. Excellent help defender. But he wasnt a stopper. And if you are going to compare all facets...Dwight, KG...did it all. TD didnt. KG another level because he also guarded SF above the 3 point line like Tmac in his prime. He could drop 25-17-5 on a night that he was chasing Tmac around the floor...and doing a good job of taking him out of his groove. It was special to see. TD was great but absolutely didnt have that skill set.

Look I loved JKidd...but as he got older and was still making all D teams as he lost his ability to shut guys down was wrong too. Like TD...he was a great game changing help defender.

KG? LOve him. Dont have to sell him to me. But per minutes stats can be misleading. WATCH. KG has absolutely lost a step. He is healthier this year and playing great. But he is a few years away from his ability to simply stop players in their tracks. GO back to the first finals against LA. His ability to take out whatver LA big he focused on wasnt emphasized enough by the media. He was bar none the best Boston player throughout those players. Pierce showed up with the big conf. finals game...and of course Kobe guarded the easiest assignment...Allen leaving Sasha to guard Pierce. You could see it coming...the MVP. But KG was the reason they won. His D on the LA bigs...should prove testament to what to great man to man coverage can do.

Mutombo was a pretty great defensive player in his own right. Special. Surprised you defend TD so strongly and dont see that he was as great a middle anchor as there has been in this game. An even better rebounder and shot blocker than TD was.

I do agree with your shot blocking point. I just dont think its as big an issue as made it out to be. I mean you are making light of a major component of D...MAN TO MAN....but think blocking a few shots out of bounds is such a game changer? Its not that I think you are wrong...I just think its over sold here. Do you have a % of blocks he is making that is astounding? Like he is sending 100 a year out of bounds? Curious to see some real stats on this....maybe I will see your point. But I am guessing it isnt as extreme as some make it out to be. A good block out of bounds can be a good thing. No different than a huge hit over the middle that costs you yards. Not all the time but sometimes saying...not in my house can really set the tone of intimidation.

[enetric]

It was actually a study by the Sloan Analytics Conference, I can't find the exact study from them, but here's a website that basically explains it:

http://www.48minutesofhell.com/the-valu ... ans-blocks

As [Huizinga] explained, through a series of charts, Tim Duncan has had the best season in history when it came down to value/block with 1.12, meaning he saved 1.12 points with every block and Dwight Howard ended up with the worst season in terms of value/block with with .53 (both came during the 2008 season).

Lets take one season...assign a poorly explained theory statistically...and then we quote it forever as a valid comparison of value on the floor over a careeer? I find this sketchy.

[SpeedyG]

Yeah as much as I hate KG, that one series when he was doing it all against the Lakers was beastly. He was basically rotating on all comers...KG, Kobe, GP, didn't matter. If the Wolves needed someone slowed down, KG did it...even if he has to full-court press them.

And also...man-to-man D....is THE best D you could ask for. If you have a guy who can lock someone down one-on-one? Your Defense opens up so much. The problem is, there's just so few guys who can do that now with the way the whistle blows.

[treiz]

Don't understand how anybody can say man to man D is overrated. If you can contain your man without needing any help from your teammates then that ensures that your teammates doesn't leave their designated man open, and that's the fundamental side of it.

[enetric]

And..have you noticed its always Spurs fans or TD fans who say its overrated on the boards?

No offense to you Realbig3...TD is an all time great player. But...we have had this conversation so many times over the years.

[vincecarter4pres]

Was Duncan actually a bad man defender back in the day when he was spry?
Or even mediocre or even average?

I remember him being a pretty good man defender until the mid 2000's when he started slowing down.

[SpeedyG]

Was Duncan actually a bad man defender back in the day when he was spry?
Or even mediocre or even average?

I remember him being a pretty good man defender until the mid 2000's when he started slowing down.

He was pretty good IMO. One of the few who could do a decent job at Yao or Shaq. But much like Kidd, he did slow down.