The NBA Playoffs

[drejeronfire]

Harden is the sole reason they lost this game. Say it with me... O-VER-RA-TED!

Oh Jeff, you are what the Spanish call, "El Terr-ee-blà".

What's a terreeblà?

As for the Finals, yeah it was boring. Durant was pretty average after the first two games. Harden proved he still has ways to go before he's considered a top 20 player and Westbrook just reinforced what all of his critics have been saying these past two years.

Even though I hate the Heat, I'm glad Lebron got his ring so people can STFU already.

OKC will dominate the west for the next 7 years, no reason to feel bad for them.

1. Lebron's still b1tch made... It's comical how he's been given 100% of the credit for this championship.

2. OKC is good but I don't see them dominating the West for years to come... They have some roster problems brewing and I think inevitably not all of their players are going to make the quantum leap people are expecting of them.

[vincecarter4pres]

I'd like to add in response to Jeff...

[therealbig3]

1. Lebron's still b1tch made... It's comical how he's been given 100% of the credit for this championship.

2. OKC is good but I don't see them dominating the West for years to come... They have some roster problems brewing and I think inevitably not all of their players are going to make the quantum leap people are expecting of them.

LOL, how can you still get on LeBron's case? And he deserves more credit than Dirk got last year, LeBron did more for the Heat than Dirk did for the Mavs last year. Obviously LeBron didn't do it alone, nobody ever has, but he did a crapload, more than most players ever had to. Him, Duncan, and Magic are the only players to lead their teams to a title while having the most points, rebounds, and assists.

I also disagree about OKC...their players don't need to make a quantum leap, they could stay exactly the same, and they're still clearly the best team in the West. And Durant will definitely get better, he still doesn't have a legit post game, he can still add some muscle, and he can get a lot better defensively. Westbrook is still learning how to play PG, and Harden just needs to get better defensively, because offensively, he's already there.

[drejeronfire]

...What the hell. You can't be serious.

Dirk was far more important to his team's championship run than Lebron was.

[therealbig3]

...What the hell. You can't be serious.

Dirk was far more important to his team's championship run than Lebron was.

No he wasn't. Dirk didn't have to do everything offensively, and he didn't need to defend 4-5 positions defensively. He had a bunch of players step up big during that run.

Bosh missed almost half of the playoffs, and Wade didn't play very well at all. He was inconsistent as hell, and his production fell off a lot. The other role players are shooters that can't create their own shot.

On/off measures Dirk to be +17.49 during the 2011 playoffs. LeBron in the 2012 playoffs was +24.81.

I don't really see an objective reason for why Dirk in 2011 was more important to his team's success than LeBron in 2012.

[deepblueday]

he clearly wasn't. i mean, dirk was insanely great, especially in the clutch, but he won a chip because his role players caught fire and played out of their minds. dirk simply wasn't asked to do nearly as much... he pretty much checked out in the mavs zone D, and, if he wasn't playing his iso ball, he spotted up while terry, barea, and kidd killed it with their pick and roll play. lebron did everything on both ends of the floor, he handled the ball, created from the perimeter and the post, dominated on the break, and was the best defensive player in the playoffs by far.

[vincecarter4pres]

Really? Dirk went on a run so dominant we haven't seen since MJ.

[therealbig3]

Really? Dirk went on a run so dominant we haven't seen since MJ.

Yeah, until 2012 LeBron happened.

And you can't really believe that anyway...are we already forgetting 03 Duncan, for example? 06 Wade?

[drejeronfire]

Stop it. Lebron didn't defend 4-5 positions in the finals. When he was matched up with Durant he was FLAT OUT abused, and when he wasn't... He was on Kendrick FREAKING Perkins (so that if the Thunder tried to run a pick-and-roll the Heat could switch the matchups).

As for role players stepping up... Do the names Mario Chalmers, Shane Battier, and Mike Miller ring a bell? What about that Chris Bosh guy? You know the guy who the Mavericks have no equivalent to, or that Dwyane Wade guy... Nah on second thought you're right those two guys are scrubs who didn't positively impact the series against the Thunder

Come on, it's obvious that you're a HUGE Lebron Lover but this is getting ridiculous... I mean +/- numbers, really?

Throwing out the fact that +/- is a terribly flawed metric (are we really going to pretend like there ARE NOT other players on the floor while a lead is being extended or diminished?), the Mavericks played significantly better opponents than the Heat in every round of the playoffs... Hell you could argue that two of the teams the Mavericks beat on their way to the finals could have challenged and possibly even BEAT the Heat had they made it to the finals.

Lebron has a good finals performance, but given the TREMENDOUS amount of help he had along the way it doesn't compare to Dirk's.

Seriously... Next thing you know people are going to start touting PER as a valid player evaluation method ...

[jerseyjac]

Stop it. Lebron didn't defend 4-5 positions in the finals. When he was matched up with Durant he was FLAT OUT abused, and when he wasn't... He was on Kendrick FREAKING Perkins (so that if the Thunder tried to run a pick-and-roll the Heat could switch the matchups).

As for role players stepping up... Do the names Mario Chalmers, Shane Battier, and Mike Miller ring a bell? What about that Chris Bosh guy? You know the guy who the Mavericks have no equivalent to, or that Dwyane Wade guy... Nah on second thought you're right those two guys are scrubs who didn't positively impact the series against the Thunder

Come on, it's obvious that you're a HUGE Lebron Lover but this is getting ridiculous... I mean +/- numbers, really?

Throwing out the fact that +/- is a terribly flawed metric (are we really going to pretend like there ARE NOT other players on the floor while a lead is being extended or diminished?), the Mavericks played significantly better opponents than the Heat in every round of the playoffs... Hell you could argue that two of the teams the Mavericks beat on their way to the finals could have challenged and possibly even BEAT the Heat had they made it to the finals.

Lebron has a good finals performance, but given the TREMENDOUS amount of help he had along the way it doesn't compare to Dirk's.

Seriously... Next thing you know people are going to start touting PER as a valid player evaluation method ...

First off congrats to LBJ and the Heat...gotta give credit to Mike Miller, you cemented your place in NBA history (this guy would of and could of hit a 3 from a wheel chair...)

Its one thing choosing to root against a player or flat out disliking them as a player, etc...but you need to come back to reality....

Like every year I rooted against MJ, I've been rooting against LBJ...we'll leave out the why's, but I can definitely say I rooted a lot harder against LBJ...Regardless, those who will not give this guy his due, minus of what you think of him and his personal decisions off the court, etc...hands down, his 2011-2012 season and playoff performance no matter how hard you want to nick-pick was flat out amazing...the changes he made to his game from last year, his approach and his mentality during games was more than significant, it was off the charts...

Each series this team built confidence and the Heat started to stick more and more as Eric realized-gave in going smaller was the only option (it was like he was fighting the obvious)...combined w/ Dwade, a healthy Bosh and role players Chalmers, Battier, Cole, Haslem and Miller...they all played adequate team defense and got hot or made a basket when they needed to...

THE FACT is, you take Lebron out, and the Heat loses miserably EVERY PLAYOFF GAME they won...so shut your pie hole and go choose another board to rave and rant on, you hater...

[therealbig3]

Alright first off, you completely ignored the fact that I'm talking playoffs overall and not just the Finals. Second of all, Durant did not get abused when he was guarded by LeBron, not even close. He was actually getting shut down. He abused Battier and Wade. Third of all, I'm looking at what these players actually contributed, rather than looking at their reputations. Wade and Bosh did not play well throughout the playoffs. Battier didn't do anything until the Boston series. Bosh missed half the playoffs. Their center rotation consisted of Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem's corpse until Bosh came back.

LeBron was defending Amare and West through the first 2 rounds. He did defend Garnett and Bass as well during the Boston series.

Throughout the playoffs, LeBron has defended Melo, Amare, Smith, Granger, West, George, Garnett, Pierce, Bass, Allen, Rondo, Westbrook, Durant, Perkins, Ibaka, and Thabo. He was guarding 4-5 positions.

And you do realize that unlike Miami's role players, Dallas's role players sometimes stepped up and actually carried the offense at times, while Dirk didn't really do anything? LeBron didn't have that luxury.

There's really no argument, LeBron did a lot more for the Heat than Dirk did for the Mavs.

[jeff1624]

You're really undervaluing what Dirk did in last years playoffs. By saying that Lebron did a lot more than Dirk you're implying that Dirk's playoff run was merely good, when in reality it was incredible. Not only did he carry his team offensively, he hit a number of game winning shots and his clutch factor hadn't been seen since the MJ days.

Besides, you're talking as if Miami's role players were irrelevant or were never prouctive. Chalmers had 25 in a finals game. Mike Miller had 24 and Battier shot 58% from beyond the arc while taking more than 5 treys per game.

And let's not forget about Lebrons superstar teammate. Wade averaged 23 a game on great efficiency. Dirk's sidekick was Jason Terry who pitched in 18 a game.

[deepblueday]

By saying that Lebron did a lot more than Dirk you're implying that Dirk's playoff run was merely good, when in reality it was incredible.

not at all... both were absurdly, historically great. lebron was just noticeably better. he created more offense, scored more on comparable efficiency, and was far more impactful on the defensive end. dirk's is a great player, but he's only dominant on one end of the floor and he requires great guard play in order to maximize his offensive gifts. yes, he can create some drawing doubles out of the high post, but hes not a sustainable faciltator over the course of 48 minutes. lebron has no weaknesses, and miami could afford him no weaknesses this year... and he dominated this playoffs in every phase of the game. he's by far the best player in the league, and it takes nothing away from dirk's performance last year to recognize that lebron was simply better.

[vincecarter4pres]

You're really undervaluing what Dirk did in last years playoffs. By saying that Lebron did a lot more than Dirk you're implying that Dirk's playoff run was merely good, when in reality it was incredible. Not only did he carry his team offensively, he hit a number of game winning shots and his clutch factor hadn't been seen since the MJ days.

Besides, you're talking as if Miami's role players were irrelevant or were never prouctive. Chalmers had 25 in a finals game. Mike Miller had 24 and Battier shot 58% from beyond the arc while taking more than 5 treys per game.

And let's not forget about Lebrons superstar teammate. Wade averaged 23 a game on great efficiency. Dirk's sidekick was Jason Terry who pitched in 18 a game.

I heard he had this guy with a long neck who looks like an alternate lifestyle dinosaur as his 3rd wheel as well?

[jeff1624]

You're really undervaluing what Dirk did in last years playoffs. By saying that Lebron did a lot more than Dirk you're implying that Dirk's playoff run was merely good, when in reality it was incredible. Not only did he carry his team offensively, he hit a number of game winning shots and his clutch factor hadn't been seen since the MJ days.

Besides, you're talking as if Miami's role players were irrelevant or were never prouctive. Chalmers had 25 in a finals game. Mike Miller had 24 and Battier shot 58% from beyond the arc while taking more than 5 treys per game.

And let's not forget about Lebrons superstar teammate. Wade averaged 23 a game on great efficiency. Dirk's sidekick was Jason Terry who pitched in 18 a game.

I heard he had this guy with a long neck who looks like an alternate lifestyle dinosaur as his 3rd wheel as well?

[drejeronfire]

Stop it. Lebron didn't defend 4-5 positions in the finals. When he was matched up with Durant he was FLAT OUT abused, and when he wasn't... He was on Kendrick FREAKING Perkins (so that if the Thunder tried to run a pick-and-roll the Heat could switch the matchups).

As for role players stepping up... Do the names Mario Chalmers, Shane Battier, and Mike Miller ring a bell? What about that Chris Bosh guy? You know the guy who the Mavericks have no equivalent to, or that Dwyane Wade guy... Nah on second thought you're right those two guys are scrubs who didn't positively impact the series against the Thunder

Come on, it's obvious that you're a HUGE Lebron Lover but this is getting ridiculous... I mean +/- numbers, really?

Throwing out the fact that +/- is a terribly flawed metric (are we really going to pretend like there ARE NOT other players on the floor while a lead is being extended or diminished?), the Mavericks played significantly better opponents than the Heat in every round of the playoffs... Hell you could argue that two of the teams the Mavericks beat on their way to the finals could have challenged and possibly even BEAT the Heat had they made it to the finals.

Lebron has a good finals performance, but given the TREMENDOUS amount of help he had along the way it doesn't compare to Dirk's.

Seriously... Next thing you know people are going to start touting PER as a valid player evaluation method ...

First off congrats to LBJ and the Heat...gotta give credit to Mike Miller, you cemented your place in NBA history (this guy would of and could of hit a 3 from a wheel chair...)

Its one thing choosing to root against a player or flat out disliking them as a player, etc...but you need to come back to reality....

Like every year I rooted against MJ, I've been rooting against LBJ...we'll leave out the why's, but I can definitely say I rooted a lot harder against LBJ...Regardless, those who will not give this guy his due, minus of what you think of him and his personal decisions off the court, etc...hands down, his 2011-2012 season and playoff performance no matter how hard you want to nick-pick was flat out amazing...the changes he made to his game from last year, his approach and his mentality during games was more than significant, it was off the charts...

Each series this team built confidence and the Heat started to stick more and more as Eric realized-gave in going smaller was the only option (it was like he was fighting the obvious)...combined w/ Dwade, a healthy Bosh and role players Chalmers, Battier, Cole, Haslem and Miller...they all played adequate team defense and got hot or made a basket when they needed to...

THE FACT is, you take Lebron out, and the Heat loses miserably EVERY PLAYOFF GAME they won...so shut your pie hole and go choose another board to rave and rant on, you hater...

I think you misread the argument we're having hear JJ.

Lebron fully deserves finals MVP, he was the most important player on the Heat in the finals, and he had a great finals series offensively.

BUT in comparison to what Dirk did last year Lebron's finals performance was a good notch or two "worse" (and I use that word loosely since both finals performances were GREAT).

The fact that people are willing to cast Wade and Bosh - two of the top 5 players at their respective positions - aside as mere role players who contributed little to the Heat winning the championship is mind boggling...

It's a fact that Lebron had significantly more help this year than Dirk did last year, there's nothing wrong with admitting that, but if that makes me a "hater" then so be it...

[therealbig3]

I don't mean to give the impression that Wade and Bosh are just like any role players...normally. But considering how much worse Wade played than usual, and that Bosh did play like a role player and missed half the games to boot, then yeah, you can't try to qualify LeBron's play by saying he's playing with two superstars, because they didn't play like it, and a lot of their offense was created by LeBron...which is typically what role players do, feed off the opportunities that the star creates. I'm not saying that's what they normally are, but that's how they played in the playoffs. Sure Wade had his moments (last 3 games against Indiana, for example), but considering the entirety of the playoffs, I think it's a little misleading to say LeBron played with a top 5 player and the best SG in the league, because Wade played nothing like that outside of a handful of games. And Bosh not only missed significant time, but he didn't even play full minutes, and his overall level of play wasn't that spectacular. He sure didn't play like a top 5 PF.

And I'm not trying to take anything away from Dirk, he was awesome, and it was definitely a historically great performance, but he didn't carry his team as much as LeBron did. That's all I'm saying. And it was just in response to saying that "LeBron is still b!tch made", and that it's comical how he's being given 100% of the credit for the championship. Nobody had an issue with giving Dirk most of the credit for the title last year, but it's now an issue if LeBron gets the same treatment, even though he did more for his team. Again, Tim Duncan and Magic Johnson are the only other players to lead championship teams in points, rebounds, and assists. And LeBron was their best defensive player too, shutting down guys like Melo, Granger, and Pierce. And when he guarded Durant, he significantly slowed him down. LeBron did pretty much everything for the Heat.

both were absurdly, historically great. lebron was just noticeably better. he created more offense, scored more on comparable efficiency, and was far more impactful on the defensive end. dirk's is a great player, but he's only dominant on one end of the floor and he requires great guard play in order to maximize his offensive gifts. yes, he can create some drawing doubles out of the high post, but hes not a sustainable faciltator over the course of 48 minutes. lebron has no weaknesses, and miami could afford him no weaknesses this year... and he dominated this playoffs in every phase of the game. he's by far the best player in the league, and it takes nothing away from dirk's performance last year to recognize that lebron was simply better.

+1