Nets and Wolves involved in trade talks for Marshon

[enetric]

Enetric....I don't argue that the value is going to the Wolves in a lopsided fashion...I'm just saying if it's Barea or Ridnour, more money has to comeback...Tele makes a few bucks, and sucked last year. (Yes, I know all about why) However, that was just speculation, because again...to make salaries match, which is a must in the NBA....Tele was thrown in. Newest news is the 26th for Brooks....which most Wolves fans realize you probably won't get much better than Brooks at the 26th, so unless someone blows the doors off and really wants him...I'd bet that's the deal. If they package it with the 9th and DW to move up in the draft...maybe a different story.

I dont dispute the cap logic...of course I know that. But that doesnt change or argue my reaction. If we made that deal at this stage...I would consider that a horrible deal for us. Not because I know for sure that Mirza will make it. Its because we are lite on tradeable picks and prospect of perceived value. Despite his minimal contribution last season...he has some asset value. I would prefer to see if we can either

a- give him a year to improve his game with us and in turn raising his stock. or...
b- see if there is a larger, quality trade to be made where he might help us now.

Low level back up PG's are not what you give up two prospects for even if their stock is low if you dont have a lot of assets left.


As for the more recent rumor...we are reading the same thing here. 26th pick for Marshon. And I think most of us would be fine with that deal. Some still think Marshon has better upside and was wasted...but to me, if we are shopping Marshon for a pick it says two possible things. Either we are ready to move on and might like a couple of guys late in the draft so we are looking to add the pick for us. Or, someone we have spoken to about a BIGGER more important trade has no interest in Marshon and we are looking to add a pick for THAT deal.

Either way...fine with it.

[enetric]

It's pretty obvious that the Nets are looking for a pick so they can move up in the draft.

I'd imagine they're trying to get the 26th for MarShon, combine that with the 22nd and move into the teens to take Karasev or trade that higher pick for a proven player while also gaining a proven player in the draft jump.

Maybe they're trying to get up to 11 or 13 with Philly or Dallas with J Rich or Marion coming back to us.

If it is Karasev and we still have Hump and Bogs after we jump up there, I'd imagine we'll be trying for maybe KG or someone like that with those two and maybe a future pick.

I'd honestly be pretty thrilled at that point. Karasev is quickly growing on me, his upside seems crazy and he should be able to come in instantly and contribute a little something and then to get KG for the next two years next to Lopez?

Also if that scenario played out we'd still have the Taxpayer's MLE to use.

I dont know. Doesnt sound like King. I think if I had to bet...if we are really in talks with Boston for example...any and all picks will be sent as part of the deal.

[NyCeEvO]

If they're really considering giving up Brooks just for a 1st rounder that leads me to believe that they're probably going to try to get Dieng and Erick Green/Allen Crabbe.

I like Green a lot and think he can become a very valuable backup given his speed and shooting. Dieng's agility and (surprising) above average passing can be very useful for us as well.

They want a big and a spot up shooter, so either Dieng or Crabbe/Bullock/Hardaway Jr.

So they wouldn't want Green because you don't think he's a spot-up shooter?


3PM-3PA

Bullock: 2.5-5.8 = .436
Green: 1.9/4.9 = .389
Hardaway Jr: 1.9-5.1 = .374
Crabbe: 1.9/5.6 = .348

FGM-FGA
Bullock: 4.9-10.2 = .483
Green: 8.2-17.2 = .475
Crabbe: 6.5-14.2 = .459
Hardaway Jr.: 5.3-12.1 = .437

He is more efficient from 3 than 2 of 3 guy you mentioned and he's just a flat-out better scorer than all of them.

He was the #1 option on his team and he was the leading scorer in the nation for NCAA, yet he still managed to be very efficient.

He can spot-up from 3 and create space for an outside shot (which Bullock can't do).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwZJCZqNhIg[/youtube]

[Trader_Joe]

I'm still one of the few people that must still have faith in MarShon. I do think he'll be a quality SG somewhere else in the league someday. He's got too much talent and the physical gifts not to IMO. But, I realize this team is not going to wait for someday, and has other needs to fill.

Also...I know some people don't think he has any upside left at age 24, but the same could have been said about Drazen Petrovic who Portland gave up on after 90 some odd games (only about 30 less than MarShon) and he was even older than MarShon when traded to us.....which is kind of odd that his biggest critic on here uses that argument against MarShon all the time, yet I think his screen name is named after Petrovic. And no, I'm not saying Brooks has Drazen's potential, just comparing the situations.

[therealbig3]

I'm still one of the few people that must still have faith in MarShon. I do think he'll be a quality SG somewhere else in the league someday. He's got too much talent and the physical gifts not to IMO. But, I realize this team is not going to wait for someday, and has other needs to fill.

Also...I know some people don't think he has any upside left at age 24, but the same could have been said about Drazen Petrovic who Portland gave up on after 90 some odd games (only about 30 less than MarShon) and he was even older than MarShon when traded to us.....which is kind of odd that his biggest critic on here uses that argument against MarShon all the time, yet I think his screen name is named after Petrovic. And no, I'm not saying Brooks has Drazen's potential, just comparing the situations.

I think the difference is, Marshon doesn't have a high BBIQ either. He's a talented scorer, and he's got good physical tools, but he doesn't know how to use his talent in a way that benefits the team. And his defense sucks.

[Trader_Joe]

I'm still one of the few people that must still have faith in MarShon. I do think he'll be a quality SG somewhere else in the league someday. He's got too much talent and the physical gifts not to IMO. But, I realize this team is not going to wait for someday, and has other needs to fill.

Also...I know some people don't think he has any upside left at age 24, but the same could have been said about Drazen Petrovic who Portland gave up on after 90 some odd games (only about 30 less than MarShon) and he was even older than MarShon when traded to us.....which is kind of odd that his biggest critic on here uses that argument against MarShon all the time, yet I think his screen name is named after Petrovic. And no, I'm not saying Brooks has Drazen's potential, just comparing the situations.

I think the difference is, Marshon doesn't have a high BBIQ either. He's a talented scorer, and he's got good physical tools, but he doesn't know how to use his talent in a way that benefits the team. And his defense sucks.

Again.. I'm comparing the situations, not the players so much.
As for his defense, defense can be learned. He's got the length and athleticism to be a very good defender. Whether or not he has the IQ or desire is another question.

[Paradise]

If they're really considering giving up Brooks just for a 1st rounder that leads me to believe that they're probably going to try to get Dieng and Erick Green/Allen Crabbe.

I like Green a lot and think he can become a very valuable backup given his speed and shooting. Dieng's agility and (surprising) above average passing can be very useful for us as well.

They want a big and a spot up shooter, so either Dieng or Crabbe/Bullock/Hardaway Jr.

So they wouldn't want Green because you don't think he's a spot-up shooter?


3PM-3PA

Bullock: 2.5-5.8 = .436
Green: 1.9/4.9 = .389
Hardaway Jr: 1.9-5.1 = .374
Crabbe: 1.9/5.6 = .348

FGM-FGA
Bullock: 4.9-10.2 = .483
Green: 8.2-17.2 = .475
Crabbe: 6.5-14.2 = .459
Hardaway Jr.: 5.3-12.1 = .437

He is more efficient from 3 than 2 of 3 guy you mentioned and he's just a flat-out better scorer than all of them.

He was the #1 option on his team and he was the leading scorer in the nation for NCAA, yet he still managed to be very efficient.

He can spot-up from 3 and create space for an outside shot (which Bullock can't do).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwZJCZqNhIg[/youtube]

I actually wanted Green but I don't see anyone talking about the Nets interest in him. All the spot up shooting talk has been about Bullock or Crabbe.

Since Kidd is on board, maybe he will want a combo guard.

[PetroNet]

I'm still one of the few people that must still have faith in MarShon. I do think he'll be a quality SG somewhere else in the league someday. He's got too much talent and the physical gifts not to IMO. But, I realize this team is not going to wait for someday, and has other needs to fill.

what talent and physical gifts? forget how anyone feels on marshon, just looking at it objectively:

does he have great size? no. certainly not
does he have great athleticism? no. he is an above avg athlete in todays league
does he have great strength? no.
does he have a great outside shot? no.
does he finishe well at the rim? no.
does he have great court vision? no.

What exactly are these talents and physical gifts if he isnt big, strong, explosive, or have a bbiq? he can get off herky jerky shots and hit tough shots. thats great, but when it leads to scoring on bad efficiency and requires excessive ball stopping then thats a real issue.

the problem with brooks isnt developing him. its his low ceiling and inability to fit into a team concept since he cant defend or play off the ball effectively.

Also...I know some people don't think he has any upside left at age 24, but the same could have been said about Drazen Petrovic who Portland gave up on after 90 some odd games (only about 30 less than MarShon) and he was even older than MarShon when traded to us.....which is kind of odd that his biggest critic on here uses that argument against MarShon all the time, yet I think his screen name is named after Petrovic. And no, I'm not saying Brooks has Drazen's potential, just comparing the situations.

the situations couldnt be further apart. Petrovic came from another country. back in a climate when international basketball wasnt nearly at the height it is now. not to mention, petrovic DID have nba ready elite skills coming in. he was a great outside shooter and outstanding passer.

Also, are you really going to compare the two early in their career? Petrovics "disappointing" start to his career in portland is light years beyond what marshon has done his first 2 seasons.

Petro had a .589 TS%. Thats unreal for a first year gaurd. He shot 47% from three. His effeciency numbers were through the roof. he was scoring 8 points in 12 minutes per game on 5 shot attempts. the only thing keeping him back in portland was playing time. the second he got it, he exploded.

to try and compare the 2 from a tools standpoint coming in, their situations before the NBA, or their player early on as anything approaching similar is just crazy.

Petro was an outstanding rookie who played elite efficient offense.
Brooks was a below average rookie who compiled ok volume stats on horrible efficiency.

[PetroNet]

Brooks' Rookie Season
Points: 12.9
Points P36: 15.5

FG%: 42.8
TS%: .502
3P%: 31.3
FT%: 76.4

PER: 12.9
oRTG: 98
WS: .8
WS/48: .022



Petro's Rookie Season
Points: 7.9
Points P36: 21.7

FG%: 48.5
TS%: .589
3P%: 46.9
FT%: 84.4

PER: 15.5
USG%: 22.9
oRTG: 113
WS: 2.8
WS/48: .139

I'm not sure how anyone can look at those rookie seasons and say that they are at all similar. one guy scored with elite efficiency shooting the ball at an elite rate from 3 and at an extremely hight percentage overall, and the other was putrid from the floor and scored with poor effeciency. it isnt even close. petro excelled as a rookie. brooks was underwhelming but looked decent from afar because of his usage and minutes

[Trader_Joe]

Again.. I'm comparing the situations, not the players so much.
As for his defense, defense can be learned. He's got the length and athleticism to be a very good defender. Whether or not he has the IQ or desire is another question.

[PetroNet]

Again.. I'm comparing the situations, not the players so

Fair enough... but even still, how are the situations similar?

Petro came over from europe, and while croatia and yugoslavia had one of the better programs at the time FIBA and internationally play was just a shell of what is today. He had to come to another country, another culture to a league with different(and at that time drastically different) rules. He was also drafted on to a 59 win Portland team playing behind a hall of famer in clyde drexler. He came to the NBA at 25 as an extremely polished player with few flaws in his game and not much developement needed other then adjusting to NBA rules. His transition on the court was quick and seemless.

Brooks went to a big east school, played all 4 years, was drafted to a terrible team and got starters minutes right away with no one to really take those minutes other then him. there was no cultural adjustment, he even grew up spending his summers in new jersey. his game didnt have much polish it all.

I'm really struggling to find the similarities?

one is a foreign player the other american
one played in the NCAA the other didint
one had olympic experience the other didint
one was drafted to a great team the other didint
one was blocked behind stars and didint get minutes, the other walked into a starting/big minute roll
one was extremely polished and the other needed alot of work
one came in at 23 the other at 25

what was similar? if you want a comparison its much more mirza then brooks. and if you want a brooks comparison.. id look more at like chris douglass robets.

CDR has the same kind of frame and length. similar style herky jerky mid range game but not a threat from 3 and struggles to finish at the rim. like Brooks CDR was thrusted into the nets starting lineup on a terrible team mostly because there were no other options and posted near identical efficiency(slightly better then brooks) while also make some horrible decision with the ball, overdribbling and not really giving much on defense. both played at major colleges and were outstanding scorers/players at that level.

CDR never got bigger, never became a catch and shoot player, never increased his range to 3 point land and now at 25-26 is pretty much who he is

[PetroNet]

I know some people don't think he has any upside left at age 24, but the same could have been said about Drazen Petrovic who Portland gave up on after 90 some odd games (only about 30 less than MarShon) and he was even older than MarShon when traded to us

Also...

the blazers didint "give up on petrovic" he demanded a trade because he wasnt getting any playing time behind drexler, porter, and ainge. the blazers wanted to keep him. but after he told them he would go back to europe if they didnt trade him, they had no choice and moved him(for an all-star player).

Petrovic never struggled in portland. portland never gave up on him. he never sat because his game needed to develop. He demanded out cause he was blocked by excelennt allstar veteran talent.

“I tried to be patient, but it’s not working,” Petrovic told The Oregonian. “I am ready to go. I don’t want to put pressure on Rick. He has already settled on a rotation. I’m not saying I’m better than Clyde, Terry or Danny Ainge. I just want to be traded. I don’t want to stay here, because I’m not getting a chance.’’

the guy had a chip on his shoulder. when he played americans and the basketball world really shunned yogoslavian basketball. He came to the NBA in 1989 on the heels of the soviet team beating the americans in 1988. After which everyone said they wouldnt have come close to winning if americans sent their professionals(this led to the first dream team). He said if he came to the NBA there was no team he couldnt easily drop 20 points on. So he wasnt looking to come to the NBA and be the 12th man... even if it was for a contender.

where this "portland gave up on him" stuff came from is beyond me

[jerseyjac]

Marshon for Luke...good deal, Ill be pissed off if we give away Mirza...If JJ comes in the same fashion nobody is surprised because of Kidd.