GT: NETS @ PHILLY |10/14| 7:00pm | CSN Philadelphia

[SF_Warriors]

Anyone who is doubting Livingston is a good back up PG need to remember that you don't need three point range to be a good perimeter player, especially as a reserve.
Great vision, efficient, smart.

I saw part of the game against Detroit, and the ball moves form side to side and inside, and it is an absolute pleasure watching this team thus far.
When they play with their real starting five, its going to be some great bball. Incredible spacing there as well.

[NyCeEvO]

Yeah, there were some doubters about Livingston when we signed him, but they aren't saying anything right now.

Although, it is only the preseason. I'm excited for his play right now but let's hope he can keep it up throughout the season.

[Born_Ready]

Livingston > Watson. I love this roster!

[NyCeEvO]

Man, Blatche took some terrible shots last night. He needs to get himself together and stop with all of these YOLO moments.

[DrazenForThree]

Anyone who is doubting Livingston is a good back up PG need to remember that you don't need three point range to be a good perimeter player, especially as a reserve.
Great vision, efficient, smart.

I saw part of the game against Detroit, and the ball moves form side to side and inside, and it is an absolute pleasure watching this team thus far.
When they play with their real starting five, its going to be some great bball. Incredible spacing there as well.

floor spacing is important, but WAAAY overblown. you dont need 3 point shooting at every position, 1 or 2 on the floor should suffice. same thing with PF, you dont need your 4's to be stretch 4's in roder to have spacing. sure it helps,but it isnt a requirement.

livingston is a great fit

[N Ireland Nets]

Anyone who is doubting Livingston is a good back up PG need to remember that you don't need three point range to be a good perimeter player, especially as a reserve.
Great vision, efficient, smart.

I saw part of the game against Detroit, and the ball moves form side to side and inside, and it is an absolute pleasure watching this team thus far.
When they play with their real starting five, its going to be some great bball. Incredible spacing there as well.

floor spacing is important, but WAAAY overblown. you dont need 3 point shooting at every position, 1 or 2 on the floor should suffice. same thing with PF, you dont need your 4's to be stretch 4's in roder to have spacing. sure it helps,but it isnt a requirement.

livingston is a great fit

Floor spacing is HUGE.

Without legit spacing teams can double with ease, can block drives in the lane to stop layups and force bad shots constantly. Floor spacing in my eyes is one of the most important aspects of basketball.

[DrazenForThree]

Anyone who is doubting Livingston is a good back up PG need to remember that you don't need three point range to be a good perimeter player, especially as a reserve.
Great vision, efficient, smart.

I saw part of the game against Detroit, and the ball moves form side to side and inside, and it is an absolute pleasure watching this team thus far.
When they play with their real starting five, its going to be some great bball. Incredible spacing there as well.

floor spacing is important, but WAAAY overblown. you dont need 3 point shooting at every position, 1 or 2 on the floor should suffice. same thing with PF, you dont need your 4's to be stretch 4's in roder to have spacing. sure it helps,but it isnt a requirement.

livingston is a great fit

Floor spacing is HUGE.

Without legit spacing teams can double with ease, can block drives in the lane to stop layups and force bad shots constantly. Floor spacing in my eyes is one of the most important aspects of basketball.

its important. my point was people go over the top regarding what it takes to achieve it. you dont need a sniper at PG and a stretch 4 to get spacing. you can even have 1 complete liability on offense and still have good spacing, so long as you have 2 shooters on the floor.

we are fine if livingston plays PG, if reggie plays the 4, if plumlee plays center, etc. what hurts is when you start 2 or 3 of those guys together.

also, you can create floor spacing with shot creators, it doesnt just need to be done with shooters.

[NyCeEvO]

Re-watching the game. The refs stunk.

[therealbig3]

its important. my point was people go over the top regarding what it takes to achieve it. you dont need a sniper at PG and a stretch 4 to get spacing. you can even have 1 complete liability on offense and still have good spacing, so long as you have 2 shooters on the floor.

I'd say if you're going to play one complete liability offensively, you need at least 3 shooters on the floor.

The reason why we wanted Teletovic to play last year and be a stretch 4 wasn't necessarily because Evans was such a liability...it was because Wallace was such a liability, and since he was going to get playing time, we needed a way to counter that.

No team in the NBA gets away with playing 2 offensive liabilities at the same time. And your perimeter players should all be able to shoot the ball, PG to SF. If one of those guys can't shoot, they can be left alone and other players can be doubled with ease. Look at what the Bulls did when Gerald Wallace was on the court. If your 4 or your 5 is an offensive liability, that hurts, but since they're playing so close to the basket anyway, they can't really be left alone, since even the biggest scrubs can hit layups. You just can't compound that problem with another offensive liability at the wing.

The thing I like about this team is that almost everyone on our team can shoot, so there won't be any floor spacing problems at all. Maybe if Evans and Kirilenko play together, but Kirilenko is a better shooter than Wallace was, and he can do a lot more things on the court than Wallace, which makes up for it somewhat.

[SpeedyG]

its important. my point was people go over the top regarding what it takes to achieve it. you dont need a sniper at PG and a stretch 4 to get spacing. you can even have 1 complete liability on offense and still have good spacing, so long as you have 2 shooters on the floor.

I'd say if you're going to play one complete liability offensively, you need at least 3 shooters on the floor.

The reason why we wanted Teletovic to play last year and be a stretch 4 wasn't necessarily because Evans was such a liability...it was because Wallace was such a liability, and since he was going to get playing time, we needed a way to counter that.

No team in the NBA gets away with playing 2 offensive liabilities at the same time. And your perimeter players should all be able to shoot the ball, PG to SF. If one of those guys can't shoot, they can be left alone and other players can be doubled with ease. Look at what the Bulls did when Gerald Wallace was on the court. If your 4 or your 5 is an offensive liability, that hurts, but since they're playing so close to the basket anyway, they can't really be left alone, since even the biggest scrubs can hit layups. You just can't compound that problem with another offensive liability at the wing.

The thing I like about this team is that almost everyone on our team can shoot, so there won't be any floor spacing problems at all. Maybe if Evans and Kirilenko play together, but Kirilenko is a better shooter than Wallace was, and he can do a lot more things on the court than Wallace, which makes up for it somewhat.

Crash/Evans was just terrible as a combo. If we had a legit star like Kobe/Wade/Lebron/Durant who can handle double-teams regardless consistently, perhaps we can get away with it some. But Lopez, Joe, and Deron, while all are good...are not in the dominant level as those other guys are and could not make up for two slugs like Crash/Evans.

I was one of the more vocal "floor spacing" guys when it came to Livingston, and still am. We'll see how it plays out. But there's no doubt in my mind that come playoff time against good defenses like Chicago, Miami, and Indiana...you watch that defense help off Livingston and force him to hurt them either by knocking an open shot or driving in and finish.

And while I critiqued him for it, I never said it was a bad signing...just that I'd feel better with it if he had that extra range. Keep in mind, as well as he's played so far...he was far passive in Game 1. Didn't see this game, but it sounds like he was more aggressive...which is what he's going to need to do with the 2nd unit. If he can keep doing this great, but let's keep in mind that what we've seen from Shaun post-injury in meaningful games is a very very small sample-size...and that while we can all hold hope that he blossoms with Kidd and Deron as mentors, his pedigree as the primary backup-PG on a championship caliber team is very much untested.

[therealbig3]

Oh yeah, Livingston can't really shoot either, forgot about him.

But the difference is...our non-shooters this year (Livingston and Evans, mainly) are not going to be playing major minutes and are there only to spell the starters for a little bit.

Wallace and Evans last year were legit getting 25-30+ mpg, and were always out there with the rest of the starters, making everyone less effective.

Even with LeBron AND Wade AND Bosh in Miami...what do the Heat do? Every perimeter player on their team (except for Wade) can shoot the 3, and the only offensive liability they play is Birdman or Joel. Most of the time, they go small and space the floor with Battier and Bosh as their big men.

In fact, Wade was actually an offensive liability for most of the Finals BECAUSE he couldn't shoot. Every time he was on the court, LeBron and the Heat looked much less effective, because the Spurs would start giving him the Gerald Wallace treatment. Once someone like Ray Allen or Mike Miller or Shane Battier came in for him, the Heat looked like they flipped a switch and played way better offensively, especially LeBron.

Even when you're the best player on the planet, spacing is a big deal.

[deepblueday]

great posts speedy and realbig3. ill add birdman is not an offensive liability in the slightest, certainly not on the level of reggie evans, and he's spectacular defensively. joel anthony is also 100x the defensive player that evans is and he still barely plays. see, for a championship team, THAT's the debate. to play or not to play defensive scrubs.

with evans, that is absolutely not the debate. he isn't a defensive scrub, he's an abysmal player with a gimmick. i actually don't know if there's a worse player in NBA history to have started for a playoff team. and im serious about that, even on the lowliest of 8th seeds. to have a player that both disrupts your offense so thoroughly and yet offers absolutely nothing on the defensive end of the floor playing so many minutes... just mind-boggling.

[deepblueday]

Crash/Evans was just terrible as a combo. If we had a legit star like Kobe/Wade/Lebron/Durant who can handle double-teams regardless consistently, perhaps we can get away with it some. But Lopez, Joe, and Deron, while all are good...are not in the dominant level as those other guys are and could not make up for two slugs like Crash/Evans.

i dunno man those two guys played with a ton of heart. i for one think we lost the series because deron williams and brook lopez are pussies and losers with no will or heart or leadership ability (after game 1, they were straight before that) and not for any kind of silly basketball reason like chicago resorting an absurd, laughable defensive scheme, a scheme virtually inconceivable at the NBA, much less playoff, level, and having it work spectacularly.

[deepblueday]

here's the thing with livingston, yes, he can't shoot, but you can't simply systematically leave him like you can gerald wallace because he'll put the ball on the floor and make a play. wallace would receive the ball wide open and either shoot it which was bad, catch, wait, and look to pass which was just as bad because now the shot clocks running down and we have nothing developing, or try to penetrate in his wild, out of control, error prone way. defense loves everyone of those options. the defense doesn't love livingston getting into the lane with his excellent vision, ball handling and playmaking ability. what youll get with livingston is defenders sagging off a little, which is more than livable. that is not what we dealt with in the chicago series.

[DarkXaero]

Livingston can shoot from mid range fine. He can't shoot 3s at all though.

[Paradise]

CJ's shooting stats:

3ft to 10ft: 29%
10 to 16 ft: 36.1%
16 ft to 3-pt: 42.2%
3-pt: 40.2%
Jumpshot overall: 38.9%

Livingston's shooting stats:

3ft to 10ft: 40%
10 to 16 ft: 41.6%
16 ft to 3-pt: 41.5%
3-pt: 0.00%
Jumpshot overall: 39.8%

So, Shaun is not a three point shooter but he's better in the mid-range/long 2s. He'll still create spacing just by running a pick and pop to either get Teletovic or Kirilenko open or he can just step into the key and take a long 2.