ImageImageImageImageImage

PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers

Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO

DarkXaero
RealGM
Posts: 14,220
And1: 5,763
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#181 » by DarkXaero » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:19 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:I agree with Prokhorov here, I don't put too much stock into regular season, we'll get roasted by Miami in the playoffs.

The Knix were good against Miami in the regular season as well a couple years ago and were still torched in 5 that year in the post season.
Tbf, Knicks torched the Heat from the 3 pt line last season. They were just the kind of team that you know wouldn't be able to do that in the playoffs. With us, it's different. We got two players who really relish playing against the Heat, and did take them to 7 games not too long ago. Also, if Deron starts playing like a top PG, it's a big factor.

I'm not saying we would beat the Heat in the playoffs, but I think we have a better chance than most people think.
User avatar
NyCeEvO
Forum Mod - Nets
Forum Mod - Nets
Posts: 22,057
And1: 6,082
Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#182 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:24 pm

LOL at the thread title change. Props to Paradise. :lol:
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 43,027
And1: 14,679
Joined: Dec 06, 2013

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#183 » by Prokorov » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:43 pm

MGrand15 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:
Your dismissing January for no reason though.


shooting percentages above averages that have since returned towards the norm. Unsustainable hot streak. you cant throw out a teams worst play and include their best play and say "this is who they are" it doesnt work that way
2014 (+ 1 game in December) is a good indicator of who we are now because we started playing a brand new lineup and got all of our guys healthy. I think it's pretty clear this is a different team with Pierce at the 4 + AK47 healthy.


since we are fully healthy with Dwill back in the lineup we are 7-6. this is why i say we are a .500 team

I don't put much stock in early season because we were playing a different lineup, dealing with injuries, dealing with a volatile coaching situation, etc. You don't put much stock in January because you think it was a hot streak. Completely different.


it was a hot streak.


Do you dismiss games where we shoot below average? And only count games where we shoot at exactly our average for the season? Because anything else is an unsustainable fluke? :lol:

I'm not ignoring games where we play badly and counting games where we played well. I'm putting more stock into games that actually used our lineup moving forward: Deron, SL, JJ, PP, KG or some combination similar to that has played very, very well. 24 game sample size is pretty big. I'm not putting much stock into games that featured Blatche at PF, Brook Lopez playing major minutes, Reggie Evans playing a lot, Tyshawn Taylor starting, Deron/AK/PP injured, etc.

I'm not sure why this concept is so complicated. It's a different team. Do I need to list all the differences? You've been watching the team all year, you know what changes have been made. They're pretty drastic. Deron healthy, AK47 healthy, SL playing at SG, JJ playing at SF, Pierce at PF, KG at C, Blatche only at C, Teletovic playing 12+ minutes, Kidd settling on rotations, etc.


what 24 game sample? if you go with the lineups that has had us the most healthy that excludes one of our best stretches because dwill was out. since we have been fully healthy(other then lopez) we have been a .500 team. that stretch in january we werent healthy for most of it as dwill is out.

you cant just count some games where dwill was out and say those dont count, but then use other games that we won where dwill was out and count those. which is it?

like i said, 7-6 in our last 13 games is what we are. a .500-ish team that usually loses if we dont play another sub .500 team
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 43,027
And1: 14,679
Joined: Dec 06, 2013

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#184 » by Prokorov » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:51 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:I agree with Prokhorov here, I don't put too much stock into regular season, we'll get roasted by Miami in the playoffs.

The Knix were good against Miami in the regular season as well a couple years ago and were still torched in 5 that year in the post season.
Tbf, Knicks torched the Heat from the 3 pt line last season. They were just the kind of team that you know wouldn't be able to do that in the playoffs. With us, it's different. We got two players who really relish playing against the Heat, and did take them to 7 games not too long ago. Also,


Well in one of our wins against them we were 9-16 from 3. so we kind of where hot that game

also wade and battier missed both games and chalmers missed one of the games. im not sure how that can be dismissed.

i dont get this "we cang ive miami a run" stuff. they are better then us in every facet and excel where we are weakest.

if Deron starts playing like a top PG, it's a big factor.


Deron doesnt have much success vs miami. they help to quick and defend the PnR too well. i mean last year:

9 points 5 assists 6 turnovers
10 points 12 assists 4 turnovers on 3-12 shooting
14 points 3 assists 7 turnovers

those are great numbers. and its certinaly not "taking advantage of miami's weakness" type numbers. i just dont see why he would all of a sudden start torching miami.
DarkXaero
RealGM
Posts: 14,220
And1: 5,763
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#185 » by DarkXaero » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:03 pm

Wade only missed one of the games. And Deron missed the game that Wade didn't play.

As for Deron not having great numbers against Miami, that's kinda irrelevant because that was early season Deron who had missed all of preseason and was still rusty. Only now we're starting to see him get into form (although it's a bit early to make any conclusions). Comparing last season numbers to this season is stupid. JJ was absolutely horrendous against the Heat last season, but in the two games this season, he has been great against them.

We also have one of the better Lebron defenders in the league (AK) so that helps too.
therealbig3
RealGM
Posts: 29,472
And1: 16,060
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#186 » by therealbig3 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:37 pm

All of our matchups against Miami last year was with injured, out-of-shape Deron, not post-ASB Deron. Ditto with this year's Deron, who actually did play pretty well in limited minutes in his one game against Miami.

A healthy Deron certainly makes a big difference.
MGrand15
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,987
And1: 2,758
Joined: Nov 17, 2009

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#187 » by MGrand15 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:06 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
shooting percentages above averages that have since returned towards the norm. Unsustainable hot streak. you cant throw out a teams worst play and include their best play and say "this is who they are" it doesnt work that way


since we are fully healthy with Dwill back in the lineup we are 7-6. this is why i say we are a .500 team



it was a hot streak.


Do you dismiss games where we shoot below average? And only count games where we shoot at exactly our average for the season? Because anything else is an unsustainable fluke? :lol:

I'm not ignoring games where we play badly and counting games where we played well. I'm putting more stock into games that actually used our lineup moving forward: Deron, SL, JJ, PP, KG or some combination similar to that has played very, very well. 24 game sample size is pretty big. I'm not putting much stock into games that featured Blatche at PF, Brook Lopez playing major minutes, Reggie Evans playing a lot, Tyshawn Taylor starting, Deron/AK/PP injured, etc.

I'm not sure why this concept is so complicated. It's a different team. Do I need to list all the differences? You've been watching the team all year, you know what changes have been made. They're pretty drastic. Deron healthy, AK47 healthy, SL playing at SG, JJ playing at SF, Pierce at PF, KG at C, Blatche only at C, Teletovic playing 12+ minutes, Kidd settling on rotations, etc.


what 24 game sample? if you go with the lineups that has had us the most healthy that excludes one of our best stretches because dwill was out. since we have been fully healthy(other then lopez) we have been a .500 team. that stretch in january we werent healthy for most of it as dwill is out.

you cant just count some games where dwill was out and say those dont count, but then use other games that we won where dwill was out and count those. which is it?

like i said, 7-6 in our last 13 games is what we are. a .500-ish team that usually loses if we dont play another sub .500 team


:roll:

24 game sample where we play "small" ball. I don't get why this is so complicated.
DarkXaero
RealGM
Posts: 14,220
And1: 5,763
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#188 » by DarkXaero » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:47 pm

therealbig3 wrote:All of our matchups against Miami last year was with injured, out-of-shape Deron, not post-ASB Deron. Ditto with this year's Deron, who actually did play pretty well in limited minutes in his one game against Miami.

A healthy Deron certainly makes a big difference.
Exactly, a healthy Deron is a big factor, and we've yet to see a top form Deron against Miami (as a Net). JJ's play against the Heat this year has been very good too, but I wouldn't count on it. That's another big plus if JJ plays well against the Heat (I expect nothing from him). You already know that Pierce and KG will go hard against the Heat. Livingston played fantastic against the Heat as well in that second game.
kerry kittles
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,896
And1: 1,198
Joined: Jul 22, 2010

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#189 » by kerry kittles » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:51 am

It's going to be very tough to even get to the Heat unless we finish as the 7th-8th seed. I'm only confident against the Raptors. I think there's a good chance we lose to the Wiz and Bulls in a 7 game series. We just don't have the size to matchup with Nene/Gortat or Gibson/Boozer/Noah. Also, Wall is a very poor matchup for DWill. He struggles more against the quick, athletic John Wall types. And DWill struggles mightly against Hinrich. I would've loved to have gotten Jordan Hill, he would've been a help when we face bigger frontcourts in the postseason.
kerry kittles
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,896
And1: 1,198
Joined: Jul 22, 2010

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#190 » by kerry kittles » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:04 am

Also this is the time, right now, to build some momentum and hopefully create some separation between the 7-8 seeds. The Hawks have been in free fall mode recently. The Cats next four games are against at San Antonio, at OKC, at Miami, home against Indiana. The Wizards are without Nene for 6 weeks.

This team has been blueballing fans for the past month. Everytime we get close to .500 we lose. It would be nice to finally get over that hump. Could be there if this team wasn't 2/21 from 3 at Golden State, got some interior D from KG/Blatche, didn't allow old man Jermaine O'Neal to go off, if one of Pierce or Johnson showed up, if AK played a better and more typical game defensively, if we had Joe Jesus instead of Joe Judas at the end of the game, etc. that loss stings. Without Bogut and Lee we should've won.
therealbig3
RealGM
Posts: 29,472
And1: 16,060
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#191 » by therealbig3 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:05 am

kerry kittles wrote:It's going to be very tough to even get to the Heat unless we finish as the 7th-8th seed. I'm only confident against the Raptors. I think there's a good chance we lose to the Wiz and Bulls in a 7 game series. We just don't have the size to matchup with Nene/Gortat or Gibson/Boozer/Noah. Also, Wall is a very poor matchup for DWill. He struggles more against the quick, athletic John Wall types. And DWill struggles mightly against Hinrich. I would've loved to have gotten Jordan Hill, he would've been a help when we face bigger frontcourts in the postseason.


Chicago does scare me.

Washington, not so much. Especially with Nene's injury. He's out 6 weeks instead of the rest of the season, but I'd imagine it's something that will bother him from here on out. I also don't think Wall is all that good when things slow down and he needs to create in the half court, like in the playoffs.

Not scared of Toronto, Charlotte, or Atlanta either. Yes, Toronto plays us tough, but the season series is 2-1 with one game left to play, so the jury is still out on whether or not they even have an advantage over us, and one of their wins was a pure fluke. And both of their wins were on the 2nd night of a back to back for us, which affects us more than any other team in the league, because of our age. No back to backs in the playoffs, and KG wasn't playing in their other win btw. Yes, at the same time, they missed an open shot at the end of the first game, which we won, but the point is, there's been too many unique circumstances that don't exist in the playoffs to say that they have an advantage over us. Players miss shots, and that will happen in the playoffs too...but back to backs and Garnett not playing aren't going to be factors in the playoffs. And you can't really depend on a flukey play to change the result of a game either, they just don't happen often.

Chicago is the one team that always has our number regardless, though. No matter who they put out there, no matter who's injured for them, we just can't beat them consistently. I really hate that team at this point.
DarkXaero
RealGM
Posts: 14,220
And1: 5,763
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#192 » by DarkXaero » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:35 am

Chicago is an awful matchup for us, I'm pretty sure they would beat us again in a playoffs series, as much as I hate to admit it. Their defense always kills us, and even offensively, they somehow execute their plays better than us. Thibodeau knows how to play the Bulls against us and will completely outcoach Kidd. That is the team we should be absolutely looking to avoid. At the same time, if we do get them, I do want to beat them badly because of how much pain they've caused us :lol:

As for the rest (Raptors, Washington, Charlotte, Atlanta), I'm not that worried. I think we would beat all four of those teams in a playoffs series. Raptors have two wins against us this season, both of them on a second of a back to back (we've pretty much struggled in every 2nd of a back to back game this season), and one of those games being a horrific, choke loss which won't likely happen again. Granted they were missing Derozan in that second game, but Lowry more than made up for his absence that game. Add to that, Raptors are a very inexperienced team when it comes to the playoffs. Derozan has never played in a playoffs series, while Lowry has only been in the playoffs one year and he sucked. They're a young team who don't have playoffs experience.

Washington, we're 0-2 against them this season. Again, the first loss was a horrific, choke loss in overtime, a game we should have definitely won (also was on the road). Second game, they just outplayed us at Barclays, I won't take credit away from that win. But again, lack of playoffs experience comes in again, and Wall is already inefficient in regular season, I expect him to be even worse in the playoffs. Nene isn't anything great in the postseason either, and that's if he plays (who knows). Randy Wittman isn't a good head coach, so that's another thing against them.

Atlanta, we've played them well in the regular season, and with no Horford for the year, I'm not worried about them. They just don't have enough to trouble us, out of the four teams, this is the easiest series for us IMO.

Charlotte, I think we're 1-1 against them. Again, they're an inexperienced team with some inefficient players as their leading scorers. Big Al will get even more exposed in the playoffs, and while I think Kemba is the type of player to step up his game in the playoffs, I think he'll have trouble scoring efficiently.

IMO, order of difficulty (most difficult to least)

Washington
Toronto
Charlotte
Atlanta


Teams to avoid:

Indiana
Chicago


I'm not adding Miami there, because I would be curious to see how we would play against them in the playoffs, and I do think that it would be a very interesting series. The other thing is that there is no shame in losing to the back to back champions, even if we do lose. A tough 6-7 game series loss against Miami wouldn't be so bad.
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 43,027
And1: 14,679
Joined: Dec 06, 2013

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#193 » by Prokorov » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:36 am

kerry kittles wrote:Also this is the time, right now, to build some momentum and hopefully create some separation between the 7-8 seeds. The Hawks have been in free fall mode recently. The Cats next four games are against at San Antonio, at OKC, at Miami, home against Indiana. The Wizards are without Nene for 6 weeks.

This team has been blueballing fans for the past month. Everytime we get close to .500 we lose. It would be nice to finally get over that hump. Could be there if this team wasn't 2/21 from 3 at Golden State, got some interior D from KG/Blatche, didn't allow old man Jermaine O'Neal to go off, if one of Pierce or Johnson showed up, if AK played a better and more typical game defensively, if we had Joe Jesus instead of Joe Judas at the end of the game, etc. that loss stings. Without Bogut and Lee we should've won.


lol....laughed my ass off at joe judas
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 43,027
And1: 14,679
Joined: Dec 06, 2013

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#194 » by Prokorov » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:38 am

DarkXaero wrote:
I'm not adding Miami there, because I would be curious to see how we would play against them in the playoffs, and I do think that it would be a very interesting series. The other thing is that there is no shame in losing to the back to back champions, even if we do lose. A tough 6-7 game series loss against Miami wouldn't be so bad.


what if we lose in 4-5 games with all the losses being by 15+
DarkXaero
RealGM
Posts: 14,220
And1: 5,763
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#195 » by DarkXaero » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:47 am

Prokorov wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
I'm not adding Miami there, because I would be curious to see how we would play against them in the playoffs, and I do think that it would be a very interesting series. The other thing is that there is no shame in losing to the back to back champions, even if we do lose. A tough 6-7 game series loss against Miami wouldn't be so bad.


what if we lose in 4-5 games with all the losses being by 15+
Then I would be wrong, obviously lol. I don't think that would happen though.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 75,829
And1: 52,593
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
       

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#196 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:08 pm

BklynNets wrote:With Miami's struggles this year, I can see us upsetting them


oh PLEASE.
Please consider donating blood: https://www.nybc.org/

2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas/T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma/J. Robinson-Earl
SF: J. Champagnie/J. Howard
SG: G. Allen/L. Kennard
PG: B. Simmons/C. Payne
F3LON
Banned User
Posts: 1,825
And1: 187
Joined: Jan 22, 2014

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#197 » by F3LON » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:13 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
BklynNets wrote:With Miami's struggles this year, I can see us upsetting them


oh PLEASE.


I dont think this is far fetched. We have no chance at beating Indy but we might have a chance at Miami. They dont really have a big who can exploit us and Wade's health is always questionable. AK plays Lebron about as well as anyone in the NBA. If we limit the turnovers I think we have a chance of beating the Heat.
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 43,027
And1: 14,679
Joined: Dec 06, 2013

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#198 » by Prokorov » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:04 pm

F3LON wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
BklynNets wrote:With Miami's struggles this year, I can see us upsetting them


oh PLEASE.


I dont think this is far fetched. We have no chance at beating Indy but we might have a chance at Miami. They dont really have a big who can exploit us and Wade's health is always questionable. AK plays Lebron about as well as anyone in the NBA. If we limit the turnovers I think we have a chance of beating the Heat.


they dont need a big who can exploit us... they have the best player in the league to exploit us and 3 point shooting to exploit us.

and you cant say "wade is always hurt" and then not turn around and say the same about 4 or 5 guys on this team including dwill.

i'd be surpised if we took a game off them.
NetsWorld
Starter
Posts: 2,443
And1: 1,034
Joined: Feb 17, 2014

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#199 » by NetsWorld » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:21 pm

F3LON wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
BklynNets wrote:With Miami's struggles this year, I can see us upsetting them


oh PLEASE.


I dont think this is far fetched. We have no chance at beating Indy but we might have a chance at Miami. They dont really have a big who can exploit us and Wade's health is always questionable. AK plays Lebron about as well as anyone in the NBA. If we limit the turnovers I think we have a chance of beating the Heat.


How do we have no chance at Indy? Please don't use the 0-4 regular season record as an excuse. I will repeat that this season, we were decimated by injuries and it took awhile to develop some chemistry. I feel if this team is healthy, come playoff time, we can give Miami or Indy a run for their money and potentially upset them. The talent and experience is there. Indy's defense is the best in the league but we too can play tough defense against them and give them problems. Several years back in 2010, everyone was quick to give the chip to Cleveland and Boston was completely knocked out of the picture when it came to contending for a championship. I feel the same is happening here with the Nets. They are having struggles but are starting to click and could turn it on in the playoffs and make a run for the finals.
FREE PALESTINE
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 43,027
And1: 14,679
Joined: Dec 06, 2013

Re: PG: Deron Leads Nets Over Blatche & The Lakers 

Post#200 » by Prokorov » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:28 pm

BklynNets wrote:
F3LON wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
oh PLEASE.


I dont think this is far fetched. We have no chance at beating Indy but we might have a chance at Miami. They dont really have a big who can exploit us and Wade's health is always questionable. AK plays Lebron about as well as anyone in the NBA. If we limit the turnovers I think we have a chance of beating the Heat.


How do we have no chance at Indy? Please don't use the 0-4 regular season record as an excuse. I will repeat that this season, we were decimated by injuries and it took awhile to develop some chemistry. I feel if this team is healthy, come playoff time, we can give Miami or Indy a run for their money and potentially upset them. The talent and experience is there. Indy's defense is the best in the league but we too can play tough defense against them and give them problems. Several years back in 2010, everyone was quick to give the chip to Cleveland and Boston was completely knocked out of the picture when it came to contending for a championship. I feel the same is happening here with the Nets. They are having struggles but are starting to click and could turn it on in the playoffs and make a run for the finals.



I agree we have a better chance vs. indy. there offense isnt very good and if the games are close half court ones who knows what happens.

i would disagree however that this team is 'starting to click". 7-6 over the past 13 games vs. without many/any wins over .500+ teams isnt really something the league should take notice of

Return to Brooklyn Nets