Game Thread: Knicks vs Nets 11/7/14 7:30pm

[Paradise]

Its too early to think about 2016 FA. Realistically, the best we can offer is a revitalized Deron + a prime Plumlee/Bogdanovic + a big market + an owner willing to spend big to win. It all really depends on how these 2 years go. If we play well and develop a rep as a good franchise - we'll have a chance of luring in good players. By that time, we might be able to sign two max guys if the cap jumps up drastically.

If we play badly and look like a joke of a franchise, which we have at times, no star is going to even consider us. It all depends on our reputation - which we have two years to improve. Also, we don't know what the cap increase is going to do to the league. It could cause madness. OKC might be able to sign a max-level player and keep Russ, Ibaka, KD. It's too early to discuss this.

If there is cap space and a complete overhaul to the roster, nobody will care how we look a season prior. No one will care how the Knicks or Lakers look either.

Houston, Miami were not that appealing until they had cap room and a commitment to overhaul the roster to appease the star player they wanted.

[MGrand15]

Its too early to think about 2016 FA. Realistically, the best we can offer is a revitalized Deron + a prime Plumlee/Bogdanovic + a big market + an owner willing to spend big to win. It all really depends on how these 2 years go. If we play well and develop a rep as a good franchise - we'll have a chance of luring in good players. By that time, we might be able to sign two max guys if the cap jumps up drastically.

If we play badly and look like a joke of a franchise, which we have at times, no star is going to even consider us. It all depends on our reputation - which we have two years to improve. Also, we don't know what the cap increase is going to do to the league. It could cause madness. OKC might be able to sign a max-level player and keep Russ, Ibaka, KD. It's too early to discuss this.

If there is cap space and a complete overhaul to the roster, nobody will care how we look a season prior. No one will care how the Knicks or Lakers look either.

Houston, Miami were not that appealing until they had cap room and a commitment to overhaul the roster to appease the star player they wanted.

We're not the Knicks or Lakers.

Houston traded for James Harden and Dwight signed after they had Harden (a young star), Parsons, and Kevin McHale.

Miami had Dwayne Wade who was a top 5 player AT WORST when LBJ/Bosh signed. Also Pat Riley. Also championship pedigree. Also it's MIAMI. A top city for a young rich person.

Our situations aren't comparable. Unless Deron is playing at prime levels, we're not going to have a star on the roster. The first key to attracting stars. Nor do we have a championship background. Nor are we a "mainstream" team like the Lakers or Knicks.

[thekorean]

We are not the Knicks quite right, but we still play in NYC. Thats gotta help

[Paradise]

Its too early to think about 2016 FA. Realistically, the best we can offer is a revitalized Deron + a prime Plumlee/Bogdanovic + a big market + an owner willing to spend big to win. It all really depends on how these 2 years go. If we play well and develop a rep as a good franchise - we'll have a chance of luring in good players. By that time, we might be able to sign two max guys if the cap jumps up drastically.

If we play badly and look like a joke of a franchise, which we have at times, no star is going to even consider us. It all depends on our reputation - which we have two years to improve. Also, we don't know what the cap increase is going to do to the league. It could cause madness. OKC might be able to sign a max-level player and keep Russ, Ibaka, KD. It's too early to discuss this.

If there is cap space and a complete overhaul to the roster, nobody will care how we look a season prior. No one will care how the Knicks or Lakers look either.

Houston, Miami were not that appealing until they had cap room and a commitment to overhaul the roster to appease the star player they wanted.

We're not the Knicks or Lakers.

Houston traded for James Harden and Dwight signed after they had Harden (a young star), Parsons, and Kevin McHale.

Miami had Dwayne Wade who was a top 5 player AT WORST when LBJ/Bosh signed. Also Pat Riley. Also championship pedigree. Also it's MIAMI. A top city for a young rich person.

Our situations aren't comparable. Unless Deron is playing at prime levels, we're not going to have a star on the roster. The first key to attracting stars. Nor do we have a championship background. Nor are we a "mainstream" team like the Lakers or Knicks.

What does that have to do with anything? We play in New York. Period. We have a popular international brand with a wealthy owner that will spend to provide the best talent available for any superstar. An advantage some teams do not have. We've already attracted Dwight and Carmelo with those factors. In terms of on court play, we are on pace to atleast be a solid playoff team for three straight seasons. If not, four straight appearances along with a well respected coach.

The small market mindset around here is a little bit much. I understand the pessimism but we will have our pros and cons for every FA.

[therealbig3]

The "we play in NY" angle is really overrated though. I honestly don't think that really matters all that much.

[DarkXaero]

The "we play in NY" angle is really overrated though. I honestly don't think that really matters all that much.

Of course, it matters. Big markets are a lot more appealing to players, in terms of marketing opportunities, and lifestyle.

[therealbig3]

The "we play in NY" angle is really overrated though. I honestly don't think that really matters all that much.

Of course, it matters. Big markets are a lot more appealing to players, in terms of marketing opportunities, and lifestyle.

How many times did Knicks fans throw that around without it resulting in anything?

Maybe it does play a part when compared to OKC...but we're not going to be the only big market going after Durant. So it doesn't really mean much. Like, playing in NY doesn't really matter if the other team happens to be Houston, or Dallas, or Chicago (just for argument's sake, not saying they're all gonna be in play). Let alone the Knicks or Lakers.

And that's how it is in general with free agents. Yeah, we're in a big market, cool. When are we ever going to be the only big market team going after a big name free agent? It really doesn't matter outside of weeding out tiny markets that nobody really wants to play for. Once you get to other big markets, the NYC angle really doesn't matter...a lot of athletes actually prefer to not play in NY.

[Paradise]

The "we play in NY" angle is really overrated though. I honestly don't think that really matters all that much.

If it didn't matter, Carmelo and Gasol wouldn't be in big markets and Chris Paul wouldn't be a Clipper.

[therealbig3]

The "we play in NY" angle is really overrated though. I honestly don't think that really matters all that much.

If it didn't matter, Carmelo and Gasol wouldn't be in big markets.

Carmelo was set to make money in NY that he couldn't make anywhere else, contractually. The Bulls with a healthy Rose are contenders...it made perfect sense from a basketball standpoint for Gasol to go there.

And my point wasn't about big markets in general, it was about us specifically playing in NY.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all, I just think it's never more than a small part in why players pick certain teams. And when you have a choice between multiple big markets, you need more than "we play in NY". The Knicks have learned that many times.

[Paradise]

The "we play in NY" angle is really overrated though. I honestly don't think that really matters all that much.

If it didn't matter, Carmelo and Gasol wouldn't be in big markets.

Carmelo was set to make money in NY that he couldn't make anywhere else, contractually. The Bulls with a healthy Rose are contenders...it made perfect sense from a basketball standpoint for Gasol to go there.

And my point wasn't about big markets in general, it was about us specifically playing in NY.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all, I just think it's never more than a small part in why players pick certain teams. And when you have a choice between multiple big markets, you need more than "we play in NY". The Knicks have learned that many times.

1. Carmelo forced his way to the Knicks and his backup preference was the Nets due to the same NY angle. The Lakers offered up Bynum, Houston and Dallas offered up trade proposals and Carmelo refused to sign in case of a rental deal. It was all NY or nothing.

Howard was the same. He also had an Addias deal worth 400 million he selected NY or LA. Chicago was a no brainer but he insisted on the Nets and he still seems butthurt about it. The big market angle has some significance to many stars.

2. Chicago did not make sense from basketball standpoint. Rose hasn't played basketball in two years. Yet, San Antonio and Oklahoma City were already established forces capable of winning championships but he opted for a big market team and it seems he would've signed with Miami if LeBron stayed. Another glamor market in NBA standards.

3. The Knicks strike out on free agents because their entire organization had a poor toxic reputation. You're not gritting anybody two years removed from the Isiah Era. They still pulled off Carmelo and then Tyson Chandler even if it didn't work. Phil Jackson was hired to basically distract people away from Dolan and the idiocy of the entire organization that still lingers. We don't have a long decade of bad PR throughout the NBA like the Knicks.

[MGrand15]

If there is cap space and a complete overhaul to the roster, nobody will care how we look a season prior. No one will care how the Knicks or Lakers look either.

Houston, Miami were not that appealing until they had cap room and a commitment to overhaul the roster to appease the star player they wanted.

We're not the Knicks or Lakers.

Houston traded for James Harden and Dwight signed after they had Harden (a young star), Parsons, and Kevin McHale.

Miami had Dwayne Wade who was a top 5 player AT WORST when LBJ/Bosh signed. Also Pat Riley. Also championship pedigree. Also it's MIAMI. A top city for a young rich person.

Our situations aren't comparable. Unless Deron is playing at prime levels, we're not going to have a star on the roster. The first key to attracting stars. Nor do we have a championship background. Nor are we a "mainstream" team like the Lakers or Knicks.

What does that have to do with anything? We play in New York. Period. We have a popular international brand with a wealthy owner that will spend to provide the best talent available for any superstar. An advantage some teams do not have. We've already attracted Dwight and Carmelo with those factors. In terms of on court play, we are on pace to atleast be a solid playoff team for three straight seasons. If not, four straight appearances along with a well respected coach.

The small market mindset around here is a little bit much. I understand the pessimism but we will have our pros and cons for every FA.

IDK what small market mindset or pessimism you're referring to. I just said it's early to be talking about 2016 FA. Anything can happen from now and then. For now, we need to establish our reputation as a winning organization with an owner willing to spend + offer FAs good players to play with. Realistically, the Knicks/Lakers have a brand/historic advantage. We need to nullify that by showing them that our owner/organization is much better. That starts with winning.

If we're terrible this season and next, good players are far less likely to join us. If the cap increases by a lot, we're going to have A LOT of competition. It's one thing if KD is choosing between OKC, WAS, or us. It's another if he's choosing between OKC, BK, WAS, TOR, GSW, LAL, LAC, MIA, NOP, DAL, etc. The cap may sky rocket and give STACKED teams a chance to make a run at Durant.

[Paradise]

We're not the Knicks or Lakers.

Houston traded for James Harden and Dwight signed after they had Harden (a young star), Parsons, and Kevin McHale.

Miami had Dwayne Wade who was a top 5 player AT WORST when LBJ/Bosh signed. Also Pat Riley. Also championship pedigree. Also it's MIAMI. A top city for a young rich person.

Our situations aren't comparable. Unless Deron is playing at prime levels, we're not going to have a star on the roster. The first key to attracting stars. Nor do we have a championship background. Nor are we a "mainstream" team like the Lakers or Knicks.

What does that have to do with anything? We play in New York. Period. We have a popular international brand with a wealthy owner that will spend to provide the best talent available for any superstar. An advantage some teams do not have. We've already attracted Dwight and Carmelo with those factors. In terms of on court play, we are on pace to atleast be a solid playoff team for three straight seasons. If not, four straight appearances along with a well respected coach.

The small market mindset around here is a little bit much. I understand the pessimism but we will have our pros and cons for every FA.

IDK what small market mindset or pessimism you're referring to. I just said it's early to be talking about 2016 FA. Anything can happen from now and then. For now, we need to establish our reputation as a winning organization with an owner willing to spend + offer FAs good players to play with. Realistically, the Knicks/Lakers have a brand/historic advantage. We need to nullify that by showing them that our owner/organization is much better. That starts with winning.

If we're terrible this season and next, good players are far less likely to join us. If the cap increases by a lot, we're going to have A LOT of competition. It's one thing if KD is choosing between OKC, WAS, or us. It's another if he's choosing between OKC, BK, WAS, TOR, GSW, LAL, LAC, MIA, NOP, DAL, etc. The cap may sky rocket and give STACKED teams a chance to make a run at Durant.

I was referring to the mindset that we have no chance at anyone. It is definitely early but it should be discussed.

I agree we need to build ourselves up and create a culture that will attract FAs. Which starts with being a consistent playoff team which we have been and should hopefully, continue to be but I just thing some of the pessimism is a bit of an overreaction.

Example: Lionel Hollins is here, we have cap room. So, are we not an attractive situation for someone like Mike Conley? (Assuming Deron opts out)

[MrDollarBills]

Mike Conley?

We need a max stud superstar, not a serviceable PG in 2016

Here is the truth: The Nets have to make serious noise now and next year for us to be a major FA attraction.

[MrDollarBills]

IDK what small market mindset or pessimism you're referring to. I just said it's early to be talking about 2016 FA. Anything can happen from now and then. For now, we need to establish our reputation as a winning organization with an owner willing to spend + offer FAs good players to play with. Realistically, the Knicks/Lakers have a brand/historic advantage. We need to nullify that by showing them that our owner/organization is much better. That starts with winning.

If we're terrible this season and next, good players are far less likely to join us. If the cap increases by a lot, we're going to have A LOT of competition. It's one thing if KD is choosing between OKC, WAS, or us. It's another if he's choosing between OKC, BK, WAS, TOR, GSW, LAL, LAC, MIA, NOP, DAL, etc. The cap may sky rocket and give STACKED teams a chance to make a run at Durant.

bingo.

[Paradise]

Mike Conley?

We need a max stud superstar, not a serviceable PG in 2016

Here is the truth: The Nets have to make serious noise now and next year for us to be a major FA attraction.

How is Conley serviceable? Limiting ourselves to Durant or bust is silly.

[DarkXaero]

Where's the game thread for the Orlando game?

[Prokorov]

GREAT effing win. nothing is better the beating the knicks and doing so in embarassing fashion. Was also excited that the arena was so many more nets fans the knicks fans... the prior knicks/nets games i went to at barclays it was more of an even split.

Deron was excellent, loved how he went right after shumpert once shump was in foul trouble. Bogs was great as well, i love the effort he plays with. the knicks have recently beat us and done so in embrassing fashion, so it was awesome to flip the script on them. Better game for lopez too

Lionel Hollins is a complete boss... Was really happy to see him angirly call a time out with us up 15 points after we started to put it in cruise control. that dude demands we play good basketball no matter the score... these are things ive been complaining about with our past few coaches... hollins finally holds guys accountable