Game Thread: Heat vs. Nets 11/17/2012 7:30 PM

[Paradise]

To restate the offense vs defense debate. Here is the current rankings.

FG% defense: 16th
3pt% defense: 16th
2pt% defense: 16th
Defensive Rebounds: 17th
Opp Points Per Game: 12th

Offense:

Assists: 27th
Offensive Rebounds: 25th
Free Throw Attempts: 24th
Points Per Game: 19th

And my favorite stats thus far:

Three Point Attempts: 20 per game
Long Two Attempts: 60 per game

why are you using different metrics for each? talk about cherry picking FG% is good enough to evaluate defense but not offense?

our defens ehas been terrible. there is 0 debate otherwise

What cherry picking? Every stat listed is what is currently relevant with this team.

The defense hasn't been any worse than it has been in the last few years. We're simply going to stay a below average defensive team due to personnel. We have no talented defenders. People need to get over it already. We all knew coming into this season unless KG played Center and Livingston came back, our defense was going to take a step back.

Maximizing our offensive talent was the main objective. It's the reason Jack is here, it's the reason Bojan is starting, it's the reason Kirilenko is being benched. Yet, we are horrible offensively. Our one and only main strength.

[VinBaker6]

To restate the offense vs defense debate. Here is the current rankings.

FG% defense: 16th
3pt% defense: 16th
2pt% defense: 16th
Defensive Rebounds: 17th
Opp Points Per Game: 12th

Offense:

Assists: 27th
Offensive Rebounds: 25th
Free Throw Attempts: 24th
Points Per Game: 19th

And my favorite stats thus far:

Three Point Attempts: 20 per game
Long Two Attempts: 60 per game

why are you using different metrics for each? talk about cherry picking FG% is good enough to evaluate defense but not offense?

our defens ehas been terrible. there is 0 debate otherwise

What cherry picking? Every stat listed is what is currently relevant with this team.

The defense hasn't been any worse than it has been in the last few years. We're simply going to stay a below average defensive team due to personnel. We have no talented defenders. People need to get over it already. We all knew coming into this season unless KG played Center and Livingston came back, our defense was going to take a step back.

Maximizing our offensive talent was the main objective. It's the reason Jack is here, it's the reason Bojan is starting, it's the reason Kirilenko is being benched. Yet, we are horrible offensively. Our one and only main strength.

Brooklyn is 12th in offensive efficiency and 21st in defensive efficiency. Prok is right in saying defense is a bigger problem.

High assists don't correlate with great offense either, and neither does offensive rebounding.

Sent from my XT1034 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Paradise]

why are you using different metrics for each? talk about cherry picking FG% is good enough to evaluate defense but not offense?

our defens ehas been terrible. there is 0 debate otherwise

What cherry picking? Every stat listed is what is currently relevant with this team.

The defense hasn't been any worse than it has been in the last few years. We're simply going to stay a below average defensive team due to personnel. We have no talented defenders. People need to get over it already. We all knew coming into this season unless KG played Center and Livingston came back, our defense was going to take a step back.

Maximizing our offensive talent was the main objective. It's the reason Jack is here, it's the reason Bojan is starting, it's the reason Kirilenko is being benched. Yet, we are horrible offensively. Our one and only main strength.

Brooklyn is 12th in offensive efficiency and 21st in defensive efficiency. Prok is right in saying defense is a bigger problem.

High assists don't correlate with great offense either, and neither does offensive rebounding.

Sent from my XT1034 using RealGM Forums mobile app

The offensive efficiency is deceiving. It looks good on paper but the reality is Deron and Joe are solely responsible for it with individual performances. The bench has been ballhogging garbage and Lopez has his head up his ass. The concept of this flex offense is well balanced scoring and playmaking.

Guys like Jack and Alan Anderson are supposed to help matchup in small defensive lineups but refuse to buy into the team concept which severely limits our rotations to lesser defenders like Bojan, Mirza getting more minutes than their supposed to.

The defense is definitely an issue but is that a surprise? 18th defense in 2012, 20th defense in 2013.

[VinBaker6]

What cherry picking? Every stat listed is what is currently relevant with this team.

The defense hasn't been any worse than it has been in the last few years. We're simply going to stay a below average defensive team due to personnel. We have no talented defenders. People need to get over it already. We all knew coming into this season unless KG played Center and Livingston came back, our defense was going to take a step back.

Maximizing our offensive talent was the main objective. It's the reason Jack is here, it's the reason Bojan is starting, it's the reason Kirilenko is being benched. Yet, we are horrible offensively. Our one and only main strength.

Brooklyn is 12th in offensive efficiency and 21st in defensive efficiency. Prok is right in saying defense is a bigger problem.

High assists don't correlate with great offense either, and neither does offensive rebounding.

Sent from my XT1034 using RealGM Forums mobile app

The offensive efficiency is deceiving. It looks good on paper but the reality is Deron and Joe are solely responsible for it with individual performances. The bench has been ballhogging garbage and Lopez has his head up his ass. The concept of this flex offense is well balanced scoring and playmaking.

Guys like Jack and Alan Anderson are supposed to help matchup in small defensive lineups but refuse to buy into the team concept which severely limits our rotations to lesser defenders like Bojan, Mirza getting more minutes than their supposed to.

The defense is definitely an issue but is that a surprise? 18th defense in 2012, 20th defense in 2013.

If you're talking about winning ball games the the defense is clearly hindering the Nets more than the offense. The team is scoring enough to win games. It doesn't matter how the offense is generated, right now its good enough to win. The defense simply isn't. It doesn't matter if the defense being poor was already well known. It doesn't change the fact that its a problem.

[NyCeEvO]

In the end, does it really matter? We suck on both sides of the ball right now.

[MrDollarBills]

In the end, does it really matter? We suck on both sides of the ball right now.

Yeah I was gonna say you guys are arguing over nothing, the Nets have been dreadful.

[Paradise]

In the end, does it really matter? We suck on both sides of the ball right now.

Yeah but at this point one side of the ball has to be emphasized and fixed immediately. Both can't be fixed simultaneously.

[CalamityX12]

So who has the balls for tomorrow game thread? I really dont want to see us lose to Kidd...

[MrDollarBills]

So who has the balls for tomorrow game thread? I really dont want to see us lose to Kidd...

Oh, i bet the Bucks will be up for that game. We're gonna lose.

[Prokorov]

In the end, does it really matter? We suck on both sides of the ball right now.

Yeah but at this point one side of the ball has to be emphasized and fixed immediately. Both can't be fixed simultaneously.

you fix the defense... because its easier to fix and more of it is predecated on playing hard, trusting the guys around you and just outworking people. and you can do it more with lineus

offense has many more factors involved. you really need guys to buy into it. and you need guys to be unslefish. you also need to get stops to get you easy early offense looks on the other end. we also are good enough offensively to eek out wins if even if we play poor offensively as long as we can hold teams under 100 or so

offensively i just dont think it can be fixed. you have too many new guys like jack and bogs who are going to take shots. you have guys like lopez who were already black holes. you have guys like joe who we can run through the post but that takes the ball out of dwills hands and vice versa.

honestly, we are better off with complete offensive zeros at SG and PF like we had a couple years ago. guys who will own the glass and help defend and just let dwill and joe and brook take turns. that wont be pretty but it would get us a 7 or 8 seed

[Prokorov]

The offensive efficiency is deceiving. It looks good on paper but the reality is Deron and Joe are solely responsible for it with individual performances. The bench has been ballhogging garbage and Lopez has his head up his ass. The concept of this flex offense is well balanced scoring and playmaking.

thats my point... its ugly unbalanced, selfish and lazy... but even still its good enough to win unless joe and deron lay eggs. our defense isnt good enough to beat anyone, even if our offense is hot. i know its early but we are on pace to give up the 2nd most points in the paint in franchise history. its one thing to be bad defensively, its another to give tons of layups and FTs. you wont win like that.

Guys like Jack and Alan Anderson are supposed to help matchup in small defensive lineups but refuse to buy into the team concept which severely limits our rotations to lesser defenders like Bojan, Mirza getting more minutes than their supposed to.

Jack and anderson are more scapegoats then problems. our starting 5 as a unit is an enormous negative on the season +/- wise. and as much as i trash that stat to evaluate individuals, its pretty spot on to evaluate 5 man units. jack has been craptacular, anderson has been meh, but weve been getting destroy regardless of those 2. scape goating role guys is really irrelevant when you are playing as horrible as we are. if we were consistently losing close games sure, maybe you nit pick. but we have played 2 good games out of 10 so far. and have been embarassing in 8 of them

The defense is definitely an issue but is that a surprise? 18th defense in 2012, 20th defense in 2013.

its not suprising its bad... but it is very suprising at just HOW bad it is. again, you cant be bottom 5 in FT allowed and points in the paint allowed and win. it jsut isnt possible