PG: Nets/Cavs - Jarrett Jack is Awful

[Zachbretton]

I doubt many are going to agree with me, but from what I'm seeing... I actually think we're FINALLY in the process of turning things around. Even though we lost to the Cavs and Heat, finally we're playing basketball for a whole game.

No wonder this is happening with Lopez out of the line up. I think Hollins is no longer disillusioned to what Brook can do. Plumlee has filled in very nicely and people are finding their roles.

I see a trade in our near future, no matter what it costs us to sure up this roster. Obviously we're not going to be a top team in the East, but for once I see us being competitive to some extent. We just need the right people getting the right minutes and a trade can help that.

Brook is just dead weight on this roster and whatever value we can get for him will make this team much better.

Once again, I know no one will agree, but I'm starting to see something actually happening on the court.


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I agree that we look better in terms of our starters and Kerasev looks pretty good with the starters but our bench is incredibly awful. Mirza is hurt and it seems that hip injury isn't getting better, Bogdanovic has tailed off from his impressive start, Jack is horrendous, Anderson is horrendous and Davis is still a Sixer.

We have an easy stretch coming up, so the key is to see if we can pick up on this change in energy and effort. I think Hollins is going through the same **** Kidd had last year, Lopez leaves the floor and now the team makes much more sense.

If and when Lopez comes back, he better be coming off the bench. But I really hope he can come back healthy, pass a physical and be shipped out ASAP.

I think Hollins is realizing how to get the most out of our rotations. He's playing Anderson and Jack less together. I can see us packaging Lopez and a third stronger (probably markel since he's not getting minutes) to get a more athletic player or two (Lance or not... I'm worried that he talk says is they aren't gunna trade him now).

I think we can moving towards an identity and as we all expected, it's without Lopez. I wish him all the best, but just not here. Let's come back to earth and realize he's the part that doesn't fit here.

I can see us doing well in the last week of December and rolling into the new year with a true sense of who we are.


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[CalamityX12]

Start Lopez off the bench.... I agree!!!!

[Prokorov]

lopez needs to be traded, cut, or euthanized. dude simply cant stay on this team if we want to make the playoffs.

[jeff1624]

I have no idea how this thread became a bash Lopez fest. I don't know how anyone can come away from a game like this... see the talentless roster we have and think that lopez is the problem. How ANYONE can think playing Jordan (who I actually like but is a 3rd stringer) and Brandon f***ing davis getting a combined 20 minutes a night is a better option. I mean, how can anyone REALLY say that we're playing better without him? We're 2-6 since his back injury. We've beaten two really sh***y teams and have been destroyed in 4 out of the 6 losses. Plumlee has played well above his abilities these past few games and WE'RE STILL only averaging 89.5 a game in those 8 games. We've actually gotten worse... and you have people saying that we're getting better.

The logic displayed by many of you is astonishing. You people are f***ing terrible. Rich, Evo, VC, paradise, Darkxero, etc see you guys around, I'm starting to really hate this fanbase just as much as I hate this team so I'm just gonna pop in less from now on.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I have no idea how this thread became a bash Lopez fest. I don't know how anyone can come away from a game like this... see the talentless roster we have and think that lopez is the problem. How ANYONE can think playing Jordan (who I actually like but is a 3rd stringer) and Brandon f***ing davis getting a combined 20 minutes a night is a better option. I mean, how can anyone REALLY say that we're playing better without him? We're 2-6 since his back injury. We've beaten two really sh***y teams and have been destroyed in 4 out of the 6 losses. Plumlee has played well above his abilities these past few games and WE'RE STILL only averaging 89.5 a game in those 8 games. We've actually gotten worse... and you have people saying that we're getting better.

The logic displayed by many of you is astonishing. You people are f***ing terrible. Rich, Evo, VC, paradise, Darkxero, etc see you guys around, I'm starting to really hate this fanbase just as much as I hate this team so I'm just gonna pop in less from now on.

I agree 100%.

What are you guys talking about? We have been absolutely awful without Lopez. This is good to you?

[JoseRizal]

We as fans have been self-destructing similar to the team. I believe winning heals all wounds. I just hope it's never too late.

We have a very small fanbase, so please let's support each other...

[Paradise]

I have no idea how this thread became a bash Lopez fest. I don't know how anyone can come away from a game like this... see the talentless roster we have and think that lopez is the problem. How ANYONE can think playing Jordan (who I actually like but is a 3rd stringer) and Brandon f***ing davis getting a combined 20 minutes a night is a better option. I mean, how can anyone REALLY say that we're playing better without him? We're 2-6 since his back injury. We've beaten two really sh***y teams and have been destroyed in 4 out of the 6 losses. Plumlee has played well above his abilities these past few games and WE'RE STILL only averaging 89.5 a game in those 8 games. We've actually gotten worse... and you have people saying that we're getting better.

The logic displayed by many of you is astonishing. You people are f***ing terrible. Rich, Evo, VC, paradise, Darkxero, etc see you guys around, I'm starting to really hate this fanbase just as much as I hate this team so I'm just gonna pop in less from now on.

You're misunderstanding what people are saying. It's nothing personal but Brook simply does not fit the offense. Joe Johnson plays significantly better without him on the floor, Brook dominates the ball alot in the same positions where Joe is absolutely efficient at in the low post.

The last big man in the flex to dominate the ball was Al Jefferson in Utah and we all saw how that relationship with Jerry Sloan went. Jefferson and Lopez had the same problem: They can't pass.

Plumlee (when his head is on straight) is a better fit for the offense. He's averaging 17 points, 10 rebounds in 30 minutes this week and he doesn't dominate the ball to do it. When Plumlee isn't playing like an idiot, he looks to be the better overall fit and he hasn't missed a game in his career thus far.

Lopez right now, has missed two weeks but his feet are totally healthy. At some point, we will have to make a decision on what to do with him and the early returns is to move him now before anything catastrophic happens.

The best outcome to satisfy all parties is for Lopez to come off the bench and be the scoring option we sorely lack there.

[MrDollarBills]

I have no idea how this thread became a bash Lopez fest. I don't know how anyone can come away from a game like this... see the talentless roster we have and think that lopez is the problem. How ANYONE can think playing Jordan (who I actually like but is a 3rd stringer) and Brandon f***ing davis getting a combined 20 minutes a night is a better option. I mean, how can anyone REALLY say that we're playing better without him? We're 2-6 since his back injury. We've beaten two really sh***y teams and have been destroyed in 4 out of the 6 losses. Plumlee has played well above his abilities these past few games and WE'RE STILL only averaging 89.5 a game in those 8 games. We've actually gotten worse... and you have people saying that we're getting better.

The logic displayed by many of you is astonishing. You people are f***ing terrible. Rich, Evo, VC, paradise, Darkxero, etc see you guys around, I'm starting to really hate this fanbase just as much as I hate this team so I'm just gonna pop in less from now on.

I agree 100%.

What are you guys talking about? We have been absolutely awful without Lopez. This is good to you?

We are 7-9 with him in the line up. I'm not sure how this turned into Brook **** fest but I'm not exactly itching for Brook to return either because he's god awful

[MrDollarBills]

this team is abysmal, but man Plumlee is on fire right now. There's no way that he can go back to the bench, he's scoring at a solid clip and he's cleaning the glass.

Brook should come off of the bench and be the scorer for the second unit. That way when the starters go out we can actually compete.

Sacrifices have to be made. Plumlee right now is a better fit at C with the starters.

[CalamityX12]

Plumlee fits in n shows to be a solid bridge in ball movement with dwill, JJ n kg... As oppose to Lopez thus far..... Wins/losses aside, ball n team play looks much more smoother and competitive as of late.

Its disappointing that Lopez hasn't shown this when healthy this season. If he's not hot offensively forget about anything else of impact to the game.

[F3LON]

We have too many soft player on this team

- Karasev is a sieve on defense. Getting owned by Wade I can understand but Mike Miller was toying with him.

- Mirza is a bum. Plain and simple. He is also a sieve defensively and puts fouls on whoever is playing center because he gets beat so often. I cant watch him shoot 43.5% FG and 34.2% 3pt anymore because it comes with his shtty defense and rebounding.

- Bogdanovic is also stinking the place up. He is shooting 39.7% FG and 35.7% 3pt in Dec. This isnt his first year in professional basketball, he should be a lot better then this. He is only shooting 29.6% FG and 27% 3pt on the road. He is the poster boy for soft.

- DWill is the biggest bum to ever put on a Nets uniform. Im tired of hearing "He didnt play bad". Guess what, "He didnt play good either!". I expect someone that makes max money to be a difference maker when he is out there, not just be one of the guys. He is shooting 40.3% FG on the season which is slightly better then his 38.2% 3pt. It's comical when he tries to finish inside because it's a circus shot 9 out of 10 times.

- Lopez and soft are interchangeable. I wont say much about him because he has been out but we all know who he is at this point. He is a sub 7 rebounds-a-game center.

- Garnett also belongs on this list. How is it that he cant finish inside the paint? All he does is shoot the least efficient shot in basketball, a jumper just inside 3pt range. He is only shooting 43.7% and he is 7 feet tall. SMH

Now for the praise

- Mason Plumlee never should have been out of the rotation and Prokorov and I were the only ones saying it. Looking at his FG% after such few shot attempts was asinine. I was never worried about his FG% since he is a great finisher. I was more focused on his defense and rebounding which were much improved. Now that he is getting burn he is making those who bashed him (We all know who you are) foolish. Guy has been a double double machine. He should be starting for the rest of the season and I would love to hear anyone suggest he shouldnt.

- Joe Johnson was also a popular scapegoat because he called Lopez selfish. Guess what, Lopez is selfish. Joe has been balling without Lopez in the lineup. Some were saying that he only plays well vs bad teams. I think his last two games vs Cleveland and Toronto but that dumb sht to bed. Joe is part of what is right about this team. It's DWill and Lopez who need to be traded. When the ball is running through Joe the offense flows.

- Alan Anderson has also been balling since Lopez went down yet everyone hates the guy. His defense has been very good and he is taking better shots. The big thing about Anderson is that he is ultra competitive. He brings energy to the team like Plumlee does. IMO he is the best option at SG. That doesnt mean I think he should be starting, the Nets should be trying to land a SG via trade. But compared to Karasev and Bogs he is by far the best option because he isnt going to give up 30 pts to the other teams SG.

- Jerome Jordan is playing about as well as you can expect. Im waiting for him to turn back into a pumpkin but until then I will enjoy his A+ level of play for a scrub.

That's all for the grades. I didnt do Jack because he is a net zero. His defense and playmaking are lacking but he is a positive on offense because he is the only person on the team who can consistently beat his man off the dribble without a pick and he finishes when he gets in the paint either with a layup or a FT. I never expected him to be a pass first guard because he isnt. Nets would be wise to pick up a backup PG and let Jack be the 6th man that he is.

[kerry kittles]

I have no idea how this thread became a bash Lopez fest. I don't know how anyone can come away from a game like this... see the talentless roster we have and think that lopez is the problem. How ANYONE can think playing Jordan (who I actually like but is a 3rd stringer) and Brandon f***ing davis getting a combined 20 minutes a night is a better option. I mean, how can anyone REALLY say that we're playing better without him? We're 2-6 since his back injury. We've beaten two really sh***y teams and have been destroyed in 4 out of the 6 losses. Plumlee has played well above his abilities these past few games and WE'RE STILL only averaging 89.5 a game in those 8 games. We've actually gotten worse... and you have people saying that we're getting better.

The logic displayed by many of you is astonishing. You people are f***ing terrible. Rich, Evo, VC, paradise, Darkxero, etc see you guys around, I'm starting to really hate this fanbase just as much as I hate this team so I'm just gonna pop in less from now on.

We're 2-5 since his back injury and the first two Joe didn't play because he was sick. So with Joe and without Brook we are 2-3. We are averaging 94.6 ppg, not great, but better than the 89.5 ppg you are mentioning. Last night was better than what we saw in our first meeting against the Cavs, we played better than most thought we would've through 3 against the Raptors, and we lost to the short handed Heat again and were more competitive than we were the 1st time out, though that was a game we should've won. I don't think we have looked worse our the last 5 games than we had prior to that.

Paradise hit on most of the great points about fit. And it's not so much I'd like to straight up drop him, but if the Lance offer is there to take it. We'd have to take Marvin Williams in the deal to get salaries to align so that would mean less Brandon Davies/Corey Jefferson.
Mirza/Williams
KG/Plumlee

That is the frontcourt right there with Jordan getting minutes due to foul trouble or if KG needs to sit. The deal gets us a defensive minded wing - that is something this team could use.

[Shook Jones]

Deron isnt what any of us expected to get but out of the core I would keep him. Lopez skills at scoring are great but slow the entire offense down. He is the guy you need in the playoffs. JJ when he is on which is rare these days has an unstoppable jumper but he also plays full iso. Its a a conundrum.

Plumlee needs to work on FT's daily if he is going to be a legit starter.

Jack is unwatchable on defense. He is always out of position and gambling for steals and strips as his man blows past him.

I like what I've seen out of Davies though, he's active, same with Jefferson.

I think at this point with Karasev playing well and I may package Teletovic with JJ or Lopez in a move.

[Paradise]

I'm not understanding these trade ideas.

What does trading Mirza do exactly? He's our only stretch four and he clearly makes us a better team when he is playing alongside Joe and Plumlee. Who are we replacing him with?

Kerasev is not a problem. Our perimeter defensive principles are the larger issue. Sergey is finally emerging at 21, he needs to continue to get minutes If we intend to rebuild. We have to start somewhere.

[NyCeEvO]

I don't understand trading Mirza simply from the fact that you're not going to get a guy who's making comparable money but is playing at Mirza's level.

Sure, he isn't playing well right now but for $3 million, you could easily afford to sit him if he's playing bad. It's not Mirza's fault that we have basically no depth so he's forced to play through his struggles rather than being benched for someone else.

[F3LON]

I don't understand trading Mirza simply from the fact that you're not going to get a guy who's making comparable money but is playing at Mirza's level.

Sure, he isn't playing well right now but for $3 million, you could easily afford to sit him if he's playing bad. It's not Mirza's fault that we have basically no depth so he's forced to play through his struggles rather than being benched for someone else.

What level is Mirza playing at exactly? Guy has only played well a handful of games in 3 years. He doesnt play defense, he doesnt rebound and most importantly he doesnt hit shots consistantly. He'll go 7-9 one night followed by 5-10 games of 33% 3pt shooting.

He is an expiring contract who will want to get paid this offseason. It's time to dump him and get back someone of value. He doesnt fit on this roster. He needs to play with a dominate Center and a big SF.

[NyCeEvO]

What level is Mirza playing at exactly? Guy has only played well a handful of games in 3 years. He doesnt play defense, he doesnt rebound and most importantly he doesnt hit shots consistantly. He'll go 7-9 one night followed by 5-10 games of 33% 3pt shooting.

He is an expiring contract who will want to get paid this offseason. It's time to dump him and get back someone of value. He doesnt fit on this roster. He needs to play with a dominate Center and a big SF.

You just said it.

Who is going to trade for an expiring contract who will have little to no allegiance to a team he was just traded to?

Look at what Boston got in return for Rondo, an allstar PG who's won a title and was in a Game 7 which could've brought home another one.

What do you think we'd get for Mirza? Maybe a 2nd pick.

[Paradise]

What level is Mirza playing at exactly? Guy has only played well a handful of games in 3 years. He doesnt play defense, he doesnt rebound and most importantly he doesnt hit shots consistantly. He'll go 7-9 one night followed by 5-10 games of 33% 3pt shooting.

He's a sixth man off the bench type of player. That's what they do. He's no different.

He is an expiring contract who will want to get paid this offseason. It's time to dump him and get back someone of value. He doesnt fit on this roster. He needs to play with a dominate Center and a big SF.

So, he isn't good enough to keep (despite the high praise he gets across the league) but we can get someone of equal value? Lol

Trading a guy that is making 3 million and averaging 15 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists per 36 minutes would be a new realm of stupidity. He's going to be a restricted free agent. You only let him go if a team overpays for him.