PG: Raps/Nets - Jack battled

[KMartsCrew]

Keep Brook, cash in on Plumlee.

[kerry kittles]

With a win tonight by the Hawks and Loss by Golden State the Hawks officially have the best record in the league. We'd be picking dead last. And Billy King still has a job.

[Paradise]

It amazes me all of a sudden now the Nets front office has decided to push for a Nets D- League franchise.

Bojan, Sergey and Markel should all be under development in the D-League. Bojan has no business getting any minutes in Overtime.

[kerry kittles]

Keep Brook, cash in on Plumlee.

That would be another short-sighted move. Plumlee will be making $2 million in 2016-17. The best chance at improving this roster is in the summer of 2016. Having a good contract like Plumlee is an asset to this team. We're picking dead last no matter what, or near it, it's a sunk cost. No matter where we finish - that will be our position. Making a shortsighted move that will do nothing for this team besides save face (give Atlanta a worse pick) is not what this organization needs. Anything we get for Plumlee wouldn't move the needle and get us past the 1st round. We need to hang out to him and develop him.

[Gordon]

Thought Bojan did well tonight. His game would look so much better if his 3-point shot has been falling. He has started season shooting good from 3, but not doing much else. Now he shows some effort on the boards and being more agressive with the ball. When he gets out of this prolonged shooting slump, he will be ok. Maybe not starter material, but good bench guy.

[MrDollarBills]

Keep Brook, cash in on Plumlee.

I love when people say this on those rare nights when Brook decides to play hard. When he disappears in the next game then what?

[MrDollarBills]

It amazes me all of a sudden now the Nets front office has decided to push for a Nets D- League franchise.

Bojan, Sergey and Markel should all be under development in the D-League. Bojan has no business getting any minutes in Overtime.

They have an interest because they have no way of getting any young talent now that King has given away all of our picks

and lol @ us picking dead last. Meanwhile, Atlanta will have a lottery pick

[F3LON]

It's a joke how the front office cant see why we are losing. I'll give you a hint, he is the only guy on the team who has a worst hairline then DWill.



Guy is absolute trash. Lou Williams abused him tonight. The worst play of the night was when Lou used a rip move to get 3 free throws. He sent Lou to the line 10 times by halftime. Besides his bad defense, he cant hit a 3 for his life. WTF is that about? Pretty much every other team who have a Euro get at least a 40% 3pt shooter. We get BogdonaSUCK and TeletoBRICKS.

Our head European scout is Bosnian and I think he should be fired. Out of all the players he scouts you think he would know that both of these guys are marginal NBA talents. We passed on Gerald Green and Paul Pierce for these fcking bums. I dont even think Pierce is that good anymore but compared to Bogs he looks like '90s Jordan.

[KMartsCrew]

Keep Brook, cash in on Plumlee.

That would be another short-sighted move. Plumlee will be making $2 million in 2016-17. The best chance at improving this roster is in the summer of 2016. Having a good contract like Plumlee is an asset to this team. We're picking dead last no matter what, or near it, it's a sunk cost. No matter where we finish - that will be our position. Making a shortsighted move that will do nothing for this team besides save face (give Atlanta a worse pick) is not what this organization needs. Anything we get for Plumlee wouldn't move the needle and get us past the 1st round. We need to hang out to him and develop him.

We're not landing a big fish in 2016. This is 2010 all over again. They're telling us about how we have to be in a position to land a big-time free agent as a pretext to cut costs because the owner is gonna sell the team.

And I don't know how much you can develop Plumlee. He's turning 25 in a few weeks and has little to no potential left to realize. What you see is what you have, IMO. He isn't and will never be as good a player as Lopez. And he isn't even a full 2 years younger than Brook.

Also, I don't get all this Bojan hate. He did choke at the end of OT, but he played hard and had a fine game all around.

[NyCeEvO]

It's truly a shame Brook doesn't show up on a nightly basis. He puts up 35/12/3/3 on 53% shooting and dominates the entire Raptors frontline. The talent is certainly there. We wouldn't be looking at trades if he did this more often.

That's what we always say.

He's consistently inconsistent when healthy and that's been 50% of the time over the last few years.

Don't expect him to average 35/12 but he needs to be excellent in the aspects of the game he's good at (I.e. scoring, blocking shots around the rim) in order to make up for the critical areas of the game that he's not good at (e.g. not being a black hole on offense, poor PnR coverage, lack of foot speed).

The problem is that too often his negatives outweigh his positives. Every 5-10 games he'll have a good game which sticks in everyone's mind and have people believe he'll keep playing at a high level, but without fail he comes back down and can't sustain good play. If he can't give us the things he's good at, it's really hard to justify having him on the court for long periods of time because we just get murdered in PnR situations and offensively he's not a good screener.

[kerry kittles]

Keep Brook, cash in on Plumlee.

That would be another short-sighted move. Plumlee will be making $2 million in 2016-17. The best chance at improving this roster is in the summer of 2016. Having a good contract like Plumlee is an asset to this team. We're picking dead last no matter what, or near it, it's a sunk cost. No matter where we finish - that will be our position. Making a shortsighted move that will do nothing for this team besides save face (give Atlanta a worse pick) is not what this organization needs. Anything we get for Plumlee wouldn't move the needle and get us past the 1st round. We need to hang out to him and develop him.

We're not landing a big fish in 2016. This is 2010 all over again. They're telling us about how we have to be in a position to land a big-time free agent as a pretext to cut costs because the owner is gonna sell the team.

And I don't know how much you can develop Plumlee. He's turning 25 in a few weeks and has little to no potential left to realize. What you see is what you have, IMO. He isn't and will never be as good a player as Lopez. And he isn't even a full 2 years younger than Brook.

Also, I don't get all this Bojan hate. He did choke at the end of OT, but he played hard and had a fine game all around.

2016 cap situation:
Bogdanovic $3 million
Plumlee: $2 million
That's $5 million

Assuming Deron opts in, we waive and stretch his $22.3 over 3 years so cap hit of $7.4 million

So we move the cap hit to:
$12.4 million: those same two players.

$90 million cap as some projecting less $12.4 million: $77.6 million in cap space

1. That is more cap space that we had in 2010.
2. We are in a more desirable location
3. Hopefully King is replaced and we have some competent in place.
4. Much better free agent class

Since we can't improve via the draft, what better options do we have than 2016 free agency? Yes, we may strike out, but if you evaluate all the possible scenarios for this franchise moving forward the best option is to position ourselves for 2016 free agency.

Plumlee is 23 months younger than Lopez, not a full 2 years, but close enough. You're saying a guy halfway through his sophomore season has no chance to improve?

Just look at his progression through the season:
November: 5.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg 42.9 TS%
December: 12.9 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 59.3 TS%
January: 13.5 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 66.5 TS%

January was the best month of professional career, he is trending up. His rebounding rates are up across the board compared to his rookie season; you can see improvements in other areas of his game, and centers generally peak later. He will never be able to create his own shot like Lopez, but hey look at Tyson Chandler, Deandre Jordan, Andre Drummond, Roy Hibbert. Even look at what Hassan Whiteside is doing down in Miami. These guys all have a huge impact on the game without being able to create their own shoot like Lopez. Bogut cannot score like Lopez can, but is a far better player. Not saying Plumlee will become him, but emphasizing the fact there's more to the game than scoring. I'm fine with Plumlee never being a strong offensive player if he can develop into a strong rim protector and good rebounder to go along with his high motor and athleticism.

And Lopez is a major health risk, it's undeniable, how much do you want to continue to invest in something that has shown to be a ticking time bomb, rather than hopefully being able to sell high at the deadline if OKC becomes desperate. I trashed the Nuggets offer in the other thread and wouldn't move Lopez for the sake of moving Lopez, but if we can recoup assets, better balance in the roster, and position ourselves for future success you got to pull the trigger.

And to touch on your Bojan point he didn't have a fine game on the defensive end. Committed a number of dumb fouls. Was in terrible position reaching on the Lou Williams 3 at the end of the 1st giving him 3 ft's, ran into Derozan in the air while he was shooting, and reach in when he got in the shooting motion again to send him to the line. He's a poor defender; Lou Williams went off on him.

[KMartsCrew]

well, you forgot to add stats like minutes per game (which would help explain most of that statistical improvement in some categories from the start of the season), foul shooting and turnovers (things at which he's gotten significantly worse either from last season or throughout this season). and while he certainly has improved his rebounding numbers, he still has no clue how to box out.

How many 25-year-olds dramatically improve as some of you unrealistically expect Mason to? I mean, you're mentioning him in the same breath as players like a guy who was the defensive anchor for the NBA champs & was named DPOY a few years ago (Chandler) and some of the best defending bigs in the game (Bogut, Hibbert). What makes you think he can be developed into a 'strong rim protector', nevermind one of the caliber of some of the guys you mentioned? Him being able to jump high doesn't mean he is good at protecting his basket. He's actually mediocre at it for a guy his size & athleticism. Heck, Lopez is definitely the better rim protector. It's not just that Lopez is better at creating his own shot, he's the superior all-around player.

[kerry kittles]

well, you forgot to add stats like minutes per game (which would help explain most of that statistical improvement in some categories from the start of the season), foul shooting and turnovers (things at which he's gotten significantly worse either from last season or throughout this season). and while he certainly has improved his rebounding numbers, he still has no clue how to box out.

How many 25-year-olds dramatically improve as some of you unrealistically expect Mason to? I mean, you're mentioning him in the same breath as players like a guy who was the defensive anchor for the NBA champs & was named DPOY a few years ago (Chandler) and some of the best defending bigs in the game (Bogut, Hibbert). What makes you think he can be developed into a 'strong rim protector', nevermind one of the caliber of some of the guys you mentioned? Him being able to jump high doesn't mean he is good at protecting his basket. He's actually mediocre at it for a guy his size & athleticism. Heck, Lopez is definitely the better rim protector. It's not just that Lopez is better at creating his own shot, he's the superior all-around player.

His TS% has improved throughout the season. He's become a more efficient scorer while scoring more so you can disregard minutes played. If you double his November #'s or look at per 36 he's still scoring more. He played the same minutes in December vs January.

His TOV% is down vs last year, his FT shooting worse, but it's not like it's something that can't be improved upon.

How many centers come in and starting dominating defensively from day 1? Chandler came into the NBA in 2001. He didnt make an All Defensive team until 2011.

How many sophomore players are playing head and shoulders better than Plumlee? You're looking at age, and rounding that up as he still is 24, and not looking at the fact that it's an adjustment to playing in the NBA. The kid's a hard worker and will improve.

[KMartsCrew]

He is 33 days away from turning 25. But whatever, big deal. Just semantics. Doesn't change the fact that his upside is limited to non-existent.

He sucked for the first month of the season or so, that was an anomaly, just a slump, him being misused (as they wanted him to try things on O he shouldn't even think about) or whatever you want to call it, he's improved his efficiency from that time, but overall not from last season.

And yes, he's become more and more of a TO machine throughout this season which you didn't mention in your post about him getting better through it:

Oct. & Nov.: 1.3 TO per 36 min.
Dec.: 2.0 TO per 36 min.
Jan.: 2.8 TO per 36 min.

[Paradise]

How many 25-year-olds dramatically improve as some of you unrealistically expect Mason to? I mean, you're mentioning him in the same breath as players like a guy who was the defensive anchor for the NBA champs & was named DPOY a few years ago (Chandler) and some of the best defending bigs in the game (Bogut, Hibbert). What makes you think he can be developed into a 'strong rim protector', nevermind one of the caliber of some of the guys you mentioned? Him being able to jump high doesn't mean he is good at protecting his basket. He's actually mediocre at it for a guy his size & athleticism. Heck, Lopez is definitely the better rim protector. It's not just that Lopez is better at creating his own shot, he's the superior all-around player.

Here is Brook and Mason's numbers among Centers across the league:

Mason:

16th in Scoring
3rd in FG%
4th in FTA
10th in Steals
25th in Rebounds
17th in Double Doubles


Brook:

7th in Scoring
13th in FG%
15th in FTA
18th in Steals
35th in Rebounds
25th in Double Doubles

Brook's last 10 games:

At WSH: 26 points, 3 rebounds on 57% FG
Vs WSH: 15 points, 5 rebounds on 38% shooting
-
At SAC: 22 points, 6 rebounds on 53% shooting
At LAC: 4 points, 1 rebound
At UTAH: 6 points, 5 rebounds
-
At ATL: 15 points, 7 rebounds
Vs TOR: 35 points, 12 rebounds


I find it comical that soon as Brook has a big game suddenly he becomes a superior all-around player. He's not. He's the definition of inconsistent. Bringing him off the bench was supposed to light a fire under him and it hasn't worked. He's still doing the same crap. Plumlee has upside and is showing signs of improvement while Lopez is vastly declining in his production at 26. Please tell me, who is superior in that regard? The only thing Brook has on Mason at this point is pure scoring ability.

[Albanian Damien]

It's a joke how the front office cant see why we are losing. I'll give you a hint, he is the only guy on the team who has a worst hairline then DWill.



Guy is absolute trash. Lou Williams abused him tonight. The worst play of the night was when Lou used a rip move to get 3 free throws. He sent Lou to the line 10 times by halftime. Besides his bad defense, he cant hit a 3 for his life. WTF is that about? Pretty much every other team who have a Euro get at least a 40% 3pt shooter. We get BogdonaSUCK and TeletoBRICKS.

Our head European scout is Bosnian and I think he should be fired. Out of all the players he scouts you think he would know that both of these guys are marginal NBA talents. We passed on Gerald Green and Paul Pierce for these fcking bums. I dont even think Pierce is that good anymore but compared to Bogs he looks like '90s Jordan.

I don't think he's the SOLE reason for the loss last night. There were other guys too I.E. My man KG couldn't have had a worse night last night if he tried.

However I definitely agree I'm tired of this slavic connections the Nets have been trying to establish. The owner's a Slav, the scout's a Slav and every international players they've picked up is Slavic (Bojan, Sergey, Mirza, hell even AK47). It's clear what the agenda was here and it's only hurt this team as they have no real options at SG / PF now because of it.

[kerry kittles]

He is 33 days away from turning 25. But whatever, big deal. Just semantics. Doesn't change the fact that his upside is limited to non-existent.

He sucked for the first month of the season or so, that was an anomaly, just a slump, him being misused (as they wanted him to try things on O he shouldn't even think about) or whatever you want to call it, he's improved his efficiency from that time, but overall not from last season.

And yes, he's become more and more of a TO machine throughout this season which you didn't mention in your post about him getting better through it:

Oct. & Nov.: 1.3 TO per 36 min.
Dec.: 2.0 TO per 36 min.
Jan.: 2.8 TO per 36 min.

- Our best month since moving to Brooklyn was March 2014, where Plumlee started every game, proving we can have success with him starting

- This is Lopez's 7th season in the league; this is Mason's 2nd.

-Mason' contract is much more friendly to the future of this organization

-Brook has serious injury concerns.

- Mason can continue to improve his rebounding which has improved from his rookie season by working on getting better position, spending more to in the weight room, etc.

- He can continue to improve defensively; like I mentioned Chandler didn't make his first defensive team until his 10th season in the league. How many centers come in and dominate on the defensive end in their 2nd season in the league?

- An example of a 25 year old that drastically improved? Did you watch the Raptors game last night, did you notice their starting point guard who at age 28, 29 if you're rounding up like you did with Mason, made his 1st ASG. Who has been carrying the Raptors the past two seasons.

- What other assets does this team have? Karasev, Bogdanovic, Jefferson, and Brown haven't proven to be worth and damn. Mason is 9 months older than Jefferson, younger than Bogdanovic, 2 years older than Brown, and 4 years older than Karasev who hasn't been sniffing the court. So you're suggesting trading away the only one we have to get what exactly?

- By the summer of 2016 assuming we hold on to Brook, he will be 28 years old, have spent 8 seasons with the Nets and not have been playing on a single team that won a playoff series. So at that point when we have traded away our only asset Plumlee we can reinvest in Brook and spend another 8 years missing the playoffs, and missing time with injuries. Move his now and get some assets to look at instead of trading our one asset, Plumlee.

[MrDollarBills]

Keep Brook, cash in on Plumlee.

That would be another short-sighted move. Plumlee will be making $2 million in 2016-17. The best chance at improving this roster is in the summer of 2016. Having a good contract like Plumlee is an asset to this team. We're picking dead last no matter what, or near it, it's a sunk cost. No matter where we finish - that will be our position. Making a shortsighted move that will do nothing for this team besides save face (give Atlanta a worse pick) is not what this organization needs. Anything we get for Plumlee wouldn't move the needle and get us past the 1st round. We need to hang out to him and develop him.

We're not landing a big fish in 2016. This is 2010 all over again. They're telling us about how we have to be in a position to land a big-time free agent as a pretext to cut costs because the owner is gonna sell the team.

And I don't know how much you can develop Plumlee. He's turning 25 in a few weeks and has little to no potential left to realize. What you see is what you have, IMO. He isn't and will never be as good a player as Lopez. And he isn't even a full 2 years younger than Brook.

Also, I don't get all this Bojan hate. He did choke at the end of OT, but he played hard and had a fine game all around.

Plumlee is a productive player on both ends of the floor. Brook is a ticking timebomb injury wise, he's lazy as hell, he can't play d, and he doesn't rebound. You want to keep a player that can't even get a decent return back in trade talks because everyone knows that he isn't worth **** aside from homering Net fans. No one was yelling to keep Brook when this dude played like garbage against Utah and LA.

Plumlee is cheaper, gives us what winning teams need from big men in today's NBA, and actually plays hard more than 1 night out of the week. You guys kill me with this argument, Brook is more offensively skilled but that's where it all ends, if you can get some younger pieces for him you don't hesitate. I take the OKC and try to flip Perkins. We need to get younger and athletic.

And no one in their right mind believes that he Nets are doing anything in 2016 FA wise.

[MrDollarBills]

He is 33 days away from turning 25. But whatever, big deal. Just semantics. Doesn't change the fact that his upside is limited to non-existent.

He sucked for the first month of the season or so, that was an anomaly, just a slump, him being misused (as they wanted him to try things on O he shouldn't even think about) or whatever you want to call it, he's improved his efficiency from that time, but overall not from last season.

And yes, he's become more and more of a TO machine throughout this season which you didn't mention in your post about him getting better through it:

Oct. & Nov.: 1.3 TO per 36 min.
Dec.: 2.0 TO per 36 min.
Jan.: 2.8 TO per 36 min.

- Our best month since moving to Brooklyn was March 2014, where Plumlee started every game, proving we can have success with him starting

- This is Lopez's 7th season in the league; this is Mason's 2nd.

-Mason' contract is much more friendly to the future of this organization

-Brook has serious injury concerns.

- Mason can continue to improve his rebounding which has improved from his rookie season by working on getting better position, spending more to in the weight room, etc.

- He can continue to improve defensively; like I mentioned Chandler didn't make his first defensive team until his 10th season in the league. How many centers come in and dominate on the defensive end in their 2nd season in the league?

- An example of a 25 year old that drastically improved? Did you watch the Raptors game last night, did you notice their starting point guard who at age 28, 29 if you're rounding up like you did with Mason, made his 1st ASG. Who has been carrying the Raptors the past two seasons.

- What other assets does this team have? Karasev, Bogdanovic, Jefferson, and Brown haven't proven to be worth and damn. Mason is 9 months older than Jefferson, younger than Bogdanovic, 2 years older than Brown, and 4 years older than Karasev who hasn't been sniffing the court. So you're suggesting trading away the only one we have to get what exactly?

- By the summer of 2016 assuming we hold on to Brook, he will be 28 years old, have spent 8 seasons with the Nets and not have been playing on a single team that won a playoff series. So at that point when we have traded away our only asset Plumlee we can reinvest in Brook and spend another 8 years missing the playoffs, and missing time with injuries. Move his now and get some assets to look at instead of trading our one asset, Plumlee.

Exactly. The "keep Brook, sell high on Mason" stuff is ridiculous and short sighted. Lopez is a loser.