NyCeEvO wrote:Paradise wrote:therealbig3 wrote: The state of their play hasn't really declined. Deron Williams is still the same player he was last year, Joe Johnson is still the same player he was last year, and Brook Lopez has declined from what he was 2 years ago, but he was completely absent last year, so he should be an improvement.
They have declined. Massively at that.
Deron in 2012-13: 57.4 TS%
Deron in 2013-14: 56.4 TS%
Deron in 2014-15: 49.8 TS%
Brook in 2012-13: 56.7 TS%
Brook in 2013-14: 62.9 TS%
Brook in 2014-15: 53.7 TS%
Joe in 2012-13: 52.1 TS%
Joe in 2013-14: 56.4 TS%
Joe in 2014-15: 52.8 TS%
In addition to that, Bogdanovic aka "Pierce's replacement'" is shooting 30% from three compared to Pierce shooting 39% when he was here. Jack is shooting 20% from three compared to CJ Watson who shot 40% and Livingston who even shot above that despite hardly taking any. Mirza went from 39% three point shooting to 32% shooting and he's also out for the season.
The entire team is much worse than last season and the season before that. It's not as cut and dry as it seems. We play at the same pace. We take the same amount of threes. We take the same amount of interior shots as the Avery, PJ and Kidd led teams. The difference is our 'Big 3' is worse and our production around them is much worse. After Pierce walked. We all thought this was a reality regardless and here it is. We are essentially the Knicks of last season.
But go back to what Trader Joe was implying/stating. What are the chances that an entire team has a down year shooting the ball?
Analysts usually talk about 1 or 2 players having a bad shooting year. But the entire team? That usually leads people to believe that while the players might not be good themselves, the chances that everyone starts sucking at the same time for an entire season are really low. This points to a problem with the structure of the team.
I'd also go back and say people are responding to TJ's argument the exact way he said they would.
He clearly stated several times that the players themselves are also responsible for this year. But he is also saying that Hollins is partially/equally to blame for their struggles. But for some reason people completely ignore the fact that he said the players are responsible as well and are defending Hollins as if he only talked about him. The reason he's talking about Hollins is because the players are always ripped but Hollins' usually gets exonerated.
There's no doubt that this team was poorly constructed (Billy's fault) and the main max players just aren't that great (players' fault), but there hasn't been a single time this season where I thought Hollins' system has one us a game.
Look at Atlanta...no superstar but they have a system in place that gets maximum efficiency out of the players and returns a lot of value for RS play. (When the playoffs come that will be a different story.) When is the last time we sat back and thought that our system really has us overachieving? There hasn't been one instance.
IMO, Hollins is just an average coach. Maybe for some teams, his tough words would take them from a good team to a great team but his replacement has already shown that the team performs just as well if not better without Hollins there.
While Hollins calls it like he sees it (which is what we want to here) is he actually good at coaching? So far, there's only been noticeable improvement from one aspect of one player's game: Brook Lopez has learned how to backtap and will get offensive boards.
But other than Brook, who else has actually improved under Hollins?
Remember when Hollins said that in order for Mason to get playing time, he needs to develop a post-game? When I heard those words, I knew Mason was in trouble because that's not something he's good at and he really has limited potential in ever becoming a decent post-player. But Hollins tried it anyway and Mason looked TERRIBLE in the beginning of the season. People were asking "Why is Plumlee forcing shots?" I kept repeating that Mason was told he needed to post-up in order to get PT and that's what Mason tried to do even though he was no good at it. Eventually, Hollins learned it wasn't going to happen. When Mason had that good run, it had 0 to do with him learning how to post-up. It all had to do with Brook going down and us playing a faster pace and using Plumlee on PnRs (which was how we used him last year).
It's like he can clearly see what's wrong with players but he just doesn't know what to do to fix the problem. Yelling at players and criticizing them hasn't had the effect he thought it would.
Their declines can be attributable to things other than coaching:
-Deron's body is physically declining. Will we ever see this again?
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-5RzVlu8_c[/youtube]
-Brook's coming back and missing almost of last year, having major surgery on his foot. Big Z was rusty when he returned from it.
-Joe is 33. Most people start declining at that age.
-Was Mirza's poor play related to his health condition?
-Jack is playing better than he did last year with Cleveland. Since Plumlee's rough start he's been about the same. Alan Anderson has been around the same as last year.
The rest of the roster: Karasev, Bogdanovic, Brown, Jefferson, Morris, Jordan are essentially rookies. 6/14 spots are rookies/D league call up types.
The roster really isn't that talented. No playoff team has 43% of their roster that wasn't in the league last year. (yes Karasev was in the league, but he didn't play much at all). The big name players are underperforming as well as evidenced. There is significant roster turnover as well as only 5 players currently playing for the Nets were on the team last year. This hasn't really been an easy task for Hollins - poor roster construction, turnover, a number of rookie players that will have their mistakes, etc. It's not like he walked into Steve Kerr's situation.
I really think the Hawks roster is more talented than people give credit for. Horford was a two time All Star before Bud came. Millsap was a really good players with the Jazz (look at their drop off after he and Jefferson left). Teague is a top 4 pg in the East, Korver may have the first 50/50/90 season ever. Basically their entire team is back from last year (swap Thabo with Lou Will). They have talent, they have cohesion. Two things the Nets lack. Bud has really taken the team to the next level and deserves a ton of credit.
The Hawks are the best 3 point shooting team in the league. Do you suddenly become a top tier 3 point shooting team with him? I doubt it, our guys can't hit an open 3 at the rates the Hawks shoot the ball.
Now like a said a few posts back Hollins hasn't been great. I think a declined DWill is still the best option running the point (all the advanced numbers back it up), i think Thad needs more minutes, Joe less minutes at the 4. His rotations haven't been great. I'm not left impressed, but with injuries, roster turnover, rookies he's forced to play, lack of talent I think it's hard to say at the end of the day we dealt him a winning hand that he folded.
