Lopez for Reggie Jackson falls apart; Nets acquire Thad Young for KG (UPDATE: Page 58)

[Shook Jones]

TRob agreed to buyout. Most likely going to PHX.

[Mkdaman1818]

TRob agreed to buyout. Most likely going to PHX.

Nope - Brooklyn

[Shook Jones]

HOLY **** we got TROB!

That was out the blue!!!!
Adrian Wojnarowski ✔ @WojYahooNBA
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Thomas Robinson has reached agreement on a deal with the Brooklyn Nets, league source tells Yahoo Sports.
1:45 PM - 23 Feb 2015

[CalamityX12]

6'10 my ass lol.... But I'm open for trob addition since we need help....

Bass though, that be a very interesting pickup instead if his play hasnt declined... Idk if it did or not

I'd prefer trob to Bass. i like bass alot, but the last thing we need is another big who is love with long jumpers

Bass is a big with a jumper but I know this guy cleans the boards and has plenty of winning experience. He also attacks the paint more so than Lopez so I'm ok with him taking some jumpers here n there(as long as they are falling)

but as I was posting another reply in tonights GT, I think we need more of a SF than another PF...

[CalamityX12]

LOL damn! Brooklyn it is... ok scratch bass LOL

[enetric]

That's what annoys me though. King never has a backup option and is complaining because he wasn't allowed to make a panic trade. It's obvious that he never called around to gauge lopez's value around the league. He put all of his eggs in the Reggie jackson basket and that's terrible and when that falls apart he admits that he didn't due any diligence around the league.

I compared this deal with the Wallace one because if Presti had made the detroit trade 30 minutes earlier then I can assure you that King was gonna make a Brook Lopez or Jeremy Lin trade or something stupid like that.

I really want this man gone. And it astounds me that despite getting torched by the media every chance they get they stick with king.

Now there's a report that King backed out of a potential Love trade. I can't, man... I just can't anymore.

Jeff...
I read that 3 times and I think I just had a stroke. Lol.

You are mad he never has a back up plan...but he is complaining he didnt get to execute his back up plan?

You said its obvious he didnt call around yet...I dont see how that is obvious. And you have a link where he admits to not calling around? That would be a game changer if you have a quote that he says something like, "I was too busy catching up on my DVR shows so nope didnt call around. Figured I would get an offer."

And then you say he not only didnt make calls and that he admits to it but if he had an extra 30 minutes warning he would have executed the back up plan you just said he didnt have?!

And if he had executed the plan you are mad he didnt have...that it would have been a really stupid one?

So if that's the case...then why be mad he didnt do one??!!!!

You're not understanding me. I'm not mad he didn't make a move after the reggie jackson deal fell apart. That's fine, it is what it is. I value Lopez a lot and I don't just want to give him away. I'm annoyed that he openly admitted that he wanted to explore other moves but was apparently blindsided when OKC took another deal. How do you put all your eggs in one basket like that? His quote of being blindsided is an admission that he was only talking to OKC. Which is why I mentioned the wallace trade. I'm 100% sure a wallace like trade would happen again and its infuriating that he hasn't learned from past mistakes. If this was the only deal he liked and it didn't happen that's fine... but he as always gets caught with his pants down and doesn't plan a move ahead.

This is normally something that people shrug off, but Billy King has embarrassed himself way too many times for this to be forgotten so easily. I fully expected Brook to be traded for a sh*tty player as soon as reggie jackson went to Detroit. I was relieved when it didn't happen only to read that it didn't because Billy ran out of time.

I guess i dont see it that way. I am SURE he spoke to other teams. They all talk to each other. What I think it meant was...he thought he had something done. It was the move he wanted and he was going to do it. I think he was shocked it didnt and would have liked the time to consider more seriously other offers that had been discussed that he had dismissed as bad deals.

So that brings me to the real problem as I see it. King is a trade junky. Wallace happened because he got screwed by Deewight. he was SURE that was done and he was opting out and from there he was getting his guy that summer. When it didnt happened that little arrogant thing that he does where he has to be able to say you see? I am not going to sit around do squat!!!!

And that was a case where you WISH it happened so close to the final moment that he couldnt have done it!!! I have a feeling that we should be glad it didnt happen earlier in the day with Jackson because I think he would have certainly found something putrid somewhere....lol.

Anyway...I guess what i am saying it...I dont believe he doesnt look around. I think he looks around too much and gets to focused on doing something. The art of patience is not his forte throughout his career. He is basically the Dolan of GM's.

[enetric]

We can sit here and argue about Lopez impact.

But sit back and think for a moment...King reportedly was going to hand the keys of the franchise to Reggie Jackson who turned down 4yr/48mil from the Thunder in search of a bigger deal and a starting role.

When I heard the reporters saying King told him that's the plan, I posted that he's bluffing because I thought there was no way a team would make Reggie Jackson it's cornerstone.

But what if that was true? King would've only compounded his previous errors unless he found a way to S&T him this offseason. The best part of the deal for me was PJ on a rookie contract followed by the savings we would have from Perk's expiring contract. We'd have 30 games to see if PJ is as good as I think he can be while getting close to or below LT if Reggie walks and Perk expires.

There are so many question marks concerning Reggie that I refuse to believe we seriously considered giving him a contract larger than 4yr/48mil.

I saw this deal as a way to get a prospect for free. Having Reggie or Brook isn't going to make this team much better or much worse this season and both could no longer be Nets after the end of the season. If we had done the trade we would've at least had another prospect who will definitely be here next year on a rookie deal.

King absolutely would have given him a huge contract if he had the green light.

[enetric]

Hollins' problem is that he's a bit too honest, but all of his criticisms of these guys are spot on.

I'm sorry, i refuse to sit and make excuses for these guys. They play like **** and they dog it, and Deron and Brook especially are the biggest culprits.

I love the fact that Hollins doesn't coddle these guys. Williams and Lopez are responsible for being at the core of the culture of softness and lackadaisical play that has plagued this team over the last several seasons.

Th problem is that he is a straight up A hole. its more than speaking his mind.

After you rip these guys you still have a job to do. Its still on you to figure out how to maximize your results. And basically same team...much worse results on his watch.

There is a saying I use in business. They may not be your people for tomorrow buy they are your people for today.

You still have to teach motivate and set them up for success. Getting in a guys face is one thing. Treating him like a dog as your record gets worse and worse and you give minutes to lesser players for "effort"doesnt exactly support his management style as winning.

His problem isnt that he's too honest. His problem is that it appears he has lost his team and far too many games.

Sorry man. THis guy belongs in college not the NBA. He has the wrong disposition for this league.

That's your opinion and that's fine, but his past success with players that weren't dogs like Lopez and Williams says that the problem is the fact that this core is garbage. You're enabling the players to continue with the same lethargic, **** play that we've seen from these clowns and blaming Hollins for being honest about them instead of holding them accountable.

Is it Hollins' fault that D-Will plays like ****? That Lopez will go out and give an abysmal effort? Why do you have an issue with guys who put forth better effort each night getting minutes?

And this is not the same team as last year. Last year we had Pierce, Livingston, Blatche, Thornton etc. The team is significantly worse and cannot hit outside shots.

Honestly, his past track record with Memphis, who had competitive players unlike Lopez and Williams says that your opinion about his management style is off base. Guys like Gasol, Randolph, Conley, Allen etc come to play each night. Lopez and Williams don't. Big difference.

See I think you are enamored with someone being told what for so much that you havent even considered whether or not it has done jack sh*t.

You have read MY posts for years. Haven I ever given you the impression I have a problem with being blunt or getting in someone's face???!

My point is...there is only so long you can have a woody for tough talking guys before you have to say...OK...so how did it go? he only name that in my mind is really that big an issue through most of this season was Blatche. And go back 2 seasons ago this roster is not that mnuch difference. And citing his success in Memphis? You mean the team that fired him right after that and is now even better even though they have made cost cutting moves?

How about the Bucks team with nothing being coached by the guy who was here last year doing MUCH better than our team?

At some point you have to ALSO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE!

I am not a fan of blaming the coach for all things. Of course I see what's wrong with the team. I was the guy 2 years ago that tore into Paradise because he couldnt stop whining about PJ and Reggie Evans while ignoring the play of the stars. I see it. Always have.

I am just saying.....there is a reason he was fired. And I think I see what it is. His style over 82 games doesnt work. I am not saying that if Kidd would be here still we would be a contender...but yeah...I think .500 is reasonable. I think Lopez would possibly have a role and not be a 16mil per year shell of himself treated like he is on punishment as he out plays Plumlee and KG. Did he dissapoint? Yes. But I dont see how he has helped Lopez or for that matter this team.

So I am not saying this is all on him. But I am saying yeah...at this point...its on him just as much as anyone else you want to throw under the bus.

[enetric]

We can sit here and argue about Lopez impact.

But sit back and think for a moment...King reportedly was going to hand the keys of the franchise to Reggie Jackson who turned down 4yr/48mil from the Thunder in search of a bigger deal and a starting role.

When I heard the reporters saying King told him that's the plan, I posted that he's bluffing because I thought there was no way a team would make Reggie Jackson it's cornerstone.

But what if that was true? King would've only compounded his previous errors unless he found a way to S&T him this offseason. The best part of the deal for me was PJ on a rookie contract followed by the savings we would have from Perk's expiring contract. We'd have 30 games to see if PJ is as good as I think he can be while getting close to or below LT if Reggie walks and Perk expires.

There are so many question marks concerning Reggie that I refuse to believe we seriously considered giving him a contract larger than 4yr/48mil.

I saw this deal as a way to get a prospect for free. Having Reggie or Brook isn't going to make this team much better or much worse this season and both could no longer be Nets after the end of the season. If we had done the trade we would've at least had another prospect who will definitely be here next year on a rookie deal.

Well, Billy is not the only one who has that belief in Reggie Jackson.

Jackson, 24, had been waiting for these words, for an NBA coach to tell him that he wanted to turn his team over to him, that he had watched him closely, studied his character and believed he could construct a contender around his talents.

"You're my point guard," the president and coach of the Pistons said, and soon they hung up, and Reggie Jackson crumpled and started to sob. He couldn't stop. He cried and cried and cried. And, now, 24 hours later, Jackson was on the phone with a reporter, and it was happening again.

"And then, to have people tarnish your name … it just means so much to have someone finally believe in you. I'm Stan's point guard now, and I want that responsibility. He can cuss me out in the film room, do whatever he needs to do for this team and me, because at least now I have control on the court. That's all I ever wanted."


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/reggie-jac ... 40465.html

I don't really think Reggie Jackson will make more than 48 million. My hunch is he rejected that offer because he just doesn't get along with anyone in the locker room. 48-50 million by 2016 will look like a bargain anyhow. The reality of probably overpaying Jackson did concern me but the overall core of Jackson/Young/Plumlee/Jones/Brown with the Atlanta 1st, MLE, BAE and S&T at our disposal is just too good to pass up. You build can build a decent nucleolus that way.

I wonder how Brandon Jennings felt reading that from rehab...

[enetric]

I'm pretty bummed tbh. KG was easily my favorite player on the team. Not his fault that his body couldn't keep up anymore. But he was still the best big on the team, and he always brought it in terms of effort and leadership. The one guy on the team whose passion couldn't be questioned.

I was super excited to have him on my team, and I really wish he could have retired here. But he went back to his original team, and even though he wasn't here for very long, I really appreciated everything he gave us these last 1.5 years.

People are quick to point out his failures as a Net, but a lot of people overlook just how important he was against Toronto last year. Once he started seeing consistent minutes, he was HUGE for us. We don't advance without him.

About this I feel exactly the same. Everyone knows KG was my favorite player ever. And I had the Celtics trade posted way before it happened...NYC will back me on that one...lol.

I dont feel he failed here. I think he was fine. I think he is veteran player who needed to be used in a veteran role on a good team. We werent a good team. Had Dwil and Lopez been healthy and done their jobs last year, it might have been different this year.

Sad to see him go for personal reasons. It was simply fun to see him in my team's uniform. I just hope he really does end it in Minny and doesnt end up chasing next year. That would stink. Finishing there is right. I admit I enjoyed watching the video they played and the introduction he got on Wednesday night. He deserved that kind of appreciation and adulation for his career.

[enetric]

Really excellent post. I enjoyed reading that. And yes I do see your view completely.

Quick replies.

On a stats based argument for this specific season yeah..of course not much of a difference to Kanter. But that would be like comparing Vince Carter scoring 16ppg down the stretch of his final Raps season and being surprised when he starts dropping 30 nightly. I just think its fair to say that Brook has been put out of the mix with this coach and its to everyone's detriment. I think that if we could simply commit back to this guy...that we would play more like 3 seasons ago and be back to a .500 type team. I dont know if this coach can win him back or restore his confidence for this year...but I have such a low opinion of what I have seen of Stephenson that I would react to him much like you did before Blatche got here. I see him as a minus. But one that costs us a 26 year old center who was an all star 5 seconds ago that seems to be healthy for a change I dont see the value in that.

I see where you are coming from on that. And Lopez is probably better then he has been before Hollins beat him down. But I also don't think he was as good as you do even when he was an all-star. But thats all opinion and we disagree so lets mvoe on from there. I can see where you are at with stephenson, and while he was the guy i wanted most, if he isnt the guy, go elsewhere. there were other SG's moved and others who were options. afflolo got moved, martin was supposedly available, etc... for me it was always that id want to move him for a gaurd, we had the depth at big, we had a weakness at SG, and brook was playing the among worst he ever has(regardless of the reason why, him or hollins.).

Now, sure I think its a very reasonable argument to say...if you think he is gone in a year...why not make a deal? My point is the deal I wanted was future asset value. Picks. Tradeable assets for down the road. Restock the cupboard left bare by BK through all these other deal. I wanted the Dragic type deal. If you cant make that deal...then the sum gain of not trading for a guy I view as a minus for the short term over a guy I think is vastly better but not helping is zero. I wouldnt have lost my mind over the trade but I wouldnt have been excited either. I saw no upside in that trade short or long term. I saw absolutely nothing of merit for our team talent wise.

I dont think that deal was there. it is hard to really get future assets for someone like lopez. with that contract/injury its tough. not even the money on the contract, but that fact lopez can opt in if he stinks or gets hurt and go into FA if he does well. you arent getting a dragic package for that. if you could, of course id be on board.

As far as trading lopez for a guy "better but not helping" i agree, future nothing changes. and since nothing changes future, id rather the guy who is better now. maybe he doesnt help, but if he helps by 1 game in the standings that means playoffs. and i think playoffs are more then a ho-hum thing if all it does is give the fans a false sense of excitement and spare us of watching the hawks turn over their card in the lottery.

you seem to view that scenario as 'why bother', i view it as 'why not?'. i guess different strokes ther as well.

Here's another scenario. Now that the trade deadline has passed. I fire Hollins. I try to refocus Lopez and get on his back the rest of the way. I do believe that refocusing a more talented Lopez is more viable the rest of this season that the hot mess that is Lance this season. Have you seen him? I mean...Travis Outlaw is saying..and you guys hated me????!

I dont know... i just dont think you can fire your coach, go with your 5th coach in 4 years with the reason being "its not the players its the coach" when you have had the same dwill//jj/lopez core underachive during that tenure with the highest success being a year where dwill was playing poor and lopez was out most of the year and livingston/Pierce/KG three guys instrumental in that are gone.

Lance has been a hot mess. but i think at worst he upgrades bogs. i think this team has responded without lopez before. i dont think it is unheard of we see us play a bit better. but again, speculation. I REALLY dont see us getting better with a new coach and hoping he can fix what the prior 4 couldnt. I think the pieces dont fit, and none of them are good enough to elevate us beyond that based on talent if they are featured. so for me, its "get pieces that fit better". maybe thats not lance. but again, there were other otpions... there were also options that gave us more depth. so even if 1 guy wasnt ebtter, we'd be deeper.

All in all, i just dont see any reason to not have dealt lopez unless:

1) you couldnt do it without taking on salary(didnt seem to be the case)
2) you are on board to extend lopez

maybe im missing a 3rd option

Moving him for a guard:
I am in general not a fan of trading to fill roles or lineups. Unless its your last big move to complete your team like the Celtics move was supposed to be. And in general...bigs are more scarce and treated with much more value in this league. The idea of turning Lopez into a subpar guard like Affalo...not a fan. Kevin Martin....wish we could have grabbed him instead of Thad Young but Lopez should be wroth much more. A much older player who despite putting up good numbers is one of the few guys more injury prone than Brook! So would have felt good about that? No. I get where you are coming from but to me I still think Lopez is much more valueable than those guys.

Getting picks:
No I didnt think we would. I just wanted to tell you the type of deal I was looking for that made sense to me to move Brook rather than sit tight. I will get to why to answer something further down.

Firing the coach:
I wasnt implying hey its the coach not the players. First off, I dont think that's fair to lump it all together. Avery was let go pretty quickly and we did make the playoffs. We always knew PJ was interim. And Kidd would still be the coach. He wasnt fired for lack of performance. We both know there was more to that. And Kidd took that team to the next step. No Brook Lopez who despite your beefs was our best player heading into last season...and we won a round on the road. So the team improved. The justification this year is that the guy we brought in...the team has taken a major step back. Now do I think that might have happened anyway? Sure. But it is on his watch and said best player is treated like trash. Its more than public humiliation or a brief benching. Its a full on ass kicking that DIDNT YIELD results. Had we gone on a major winning streak or seem some major turn around fine. But at this point the brief surge by Plumlee was followed a stretch of Lopez outplaying him from the bench. You might have fault with Lopez or decide to bounce some advanced metrics here...but the team did not make major improvements with this gamble and Plumlee is not some sort of star player in the making. So to me...trade deadline gone...no other roster changes beyond KG for Young...I agree with you. Lets make the playoffs. Talent wise...Lopez is the best player here. So my point is...ride him. Put him in and play him max minutes until his foot falls off.

Making the playoffs:
My view is NOT why bother. I agree with you. Go for it this year. Nothing to lose. Not like we are lowering our pick. All we have to play for this season is playoffs so this year why not go for it? In seasons past like the time we were looking at the 8th seed against the Shaq/Wade Heat I said...screw that! Lottery!!!! But that isnt the case here. Where you and I part ways is on what is the best way to achieve that. I say its with the best possible talent. And to me Brook is far better than every 2 guard name we have discussed. And we have made the playoffs the last 2 years. I see Lopez as potentially a big upgrade over what we had last season while he was out. Granted...Dwill is a lot worse than 2 years ago. We have plenty of other issues...but I would put the best players on the floor as starters and ride them. Refocus them. And if this coach cant find a way to get them to believe in themselves...then fire him. I dont care who coaches the rest of the way. Bring in freakin Mark Jackson for all I care! Just give them the motivational yack and let them play and see what happens.

SO we are on the same page with what to do....just not in agreement on the best way to do it.

[enetric]

I think the character concerns with Reggie are seriously overblown. I would expect a player who is confident in his abilities to be pissed he is a backup. It's why I have such a low opinion of DWill. Reggie wants to start. Steve Nash once played on a team with Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson blocking his playing time. Circumstance can factor into weather or not a player is considered a good teammate.

Im not a being believer in Reggie's talent though so I am glad that team fell through. I dont think PG is a position you pay in the NBA. IF it was then players like Chris Paul would have been champions already. You pay bigs and guys who can score in ISO and get to the line frequently.

I agree... in fact, the only reason Drazen Petrovic was a net was because he had an even bigger blowup in philly, and even bigger ego and demanded out because he was stuck behind several stars on that team. i can see concerns with guys like lance and dray. but a guy who is stuck behind stars who wants out i worry about less.

I think you meant Portland.

[el13adnino]

this thread was full of WIN

[el13adnino]

this thread was full of WIN

[Prokorov]

I think the character concerns with Reggie are seriously overblown. I would expect a player who is confident in his abilities to be pissed he is a backup. It's why I have such a low opinion of DWill. Reggie wants to start. Steve Nash once played on a team with Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson blocking his playing time. Circumstance can factor into weather or not a player is considered a good teammate.

Im not a being believer in Reggie's talent though so I am glad that team fell through. I dont think PG is a position you pay in the NBA. IF it was then players like Chris Paul would have been champions already. You pay bigs and guys who can score in ISO and get to the line frequently.

I agree... in fact, the only reason Drazen Petrovic was a net was because he had an even bigger blowup in philly, and even bigger ego and demanded out because he was stuck behind several stars on that team. i can see concerns with guys like lance and dray. but a guy who is stuck behind stars who wants out i worry about less.

I think you meant Portland.

yup, blazers...

[Trader_Joe]

Detroit struggling with Jackson..

5-0 prior to the trade
1-3 since (the one win against the reeling Wizards in his first game)

Jackson - 16 ppg on 33%/23%