GT: Nets @ Cavaliers - Wednesday, 3/18/15 7:00pm

[Prokorov]

didn't see the game but by reading comments, looks like Hollins substitution pattern is again a huge concern....

the guy is a joke lately when it comes to substitutions.... I feel we lost quite a few games based on his lineups and personnel alone....

i hate this argument. what lineup/rotation has EVER worked for this team this year for more then a 1-2 game span? Hollins has used literally every rotation possible. Big, Small, Traditional, 3 gaurds, atheltic lineups, halfcourt lineups, benched stars, started rookies etc....

When you have a team with no consistent #1 or #2 option, ZERO 2-way players, no rebounders, and no 3 point shooters you really have no options but to just throw crap against the wall and see what sticks that night.

every 2 or 3 game win streak we have had with any lineup has been followed up with a horrific losing streak with that same rotation.

hell look at this board as a microcosm... there are what, a dozen or so of us as regular posters and everyone one of us wasnts a different lineup, a different SG, a different PF... the truth is there is no right awnser. everyone has been bad more often then good and no unit has really had consistent success

It doesn't alarm you that there are certain players who sit for extended periods of time, after they played well n build up a lead, where the other team is building a huge comeback and by the time Hollins re-inserts them its too late?

Or not playing players in favor of small ball bs?

no. because weve seen him stick with guys on those same situations and have it not work out just as often. we have seen him bring in those units and have them extend leads or turn deficits into leads.

this ignores the fact that he has done the opposite of what you criticize him for at times too with the same result

[lkitt0804]

Deron is bad. Jack is bad. I can't argue in favor of either of them.

One thing I notice is that we start games well. Starters go to the bench with a 10 point lead. By about the 6 to 8 minute mark of the second we are down by 10. I didn't look up stats but from what I have seen this happens a lot. I think we need to bring Deron and Brook off the bench to balance the team out. They still should play about 30 minutes though but we seem to play better with that line up. This is not saying Deron is losing is starting spot to Jack but the team is better with him coming off the bench. I don't really pay attention to +/- but it just seems we lose a lot of leads after the starters start going out. And when they come back they just play like crap for the rest of the game.

Anyways we are a bad team.


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[MGrand15]

I'm fine with people bashing Deron, Joe, Brook. They completely deserve it. I'll NEVER understand the love for Jack. Worst +/- in the league. Awful 3 point shooter. Awful defender. Useless without the ball in his hands. Very selfish. It's crazy that anyone can defend the guy. Outside of a brief stretch where he played OKAY and we were awful - he's been BAD all year. He was BAD all of last year. The guy just isn't a positive player on the court. That's true whether he shoots 30% or 50%. That's true whether he has 5 assists or no assists.

I don't know whether I prefer playing Morris over him. A D-League PG just because Morris is unselfish, is somewhat athletic, and can defend. He's awful but I'd rather have a 0 at PG over a negative.

The team is awful guys. It's okay to bash EVERYONE. We don't need to pick and choose who to bash. It's not like the "big 3" are the only ones not living up to expectations.

What love for jack?

the only defense for jack is that he isnt the reason this team sucks so bad/underachieves and is put in a role he isnt good enough to play(i.e. 30+ minutes a night).

other then preseason/early season no one has ever praised the guy.

the BIG 3 have constantly had excuses made for them here and other scapegoated(like jack).

jack has sucked, i dont think anyone has ever really denied that.

as far as darius morris... yeah play him 20-30 minutes a game, im sure he will be really great

You don't think anyone has ever denied that? People in this board have been praising him all year. There's someone praising him in this thread. If you agree that sucks, then you're agreeing with me. I'm glad.

As for Morris, I'm not sure why you think we need to roll a backup PG out there for 20-30 minutes a game. With Markel Brown, AA, Joe Johnson and Bogdanovic - I'm MORE than happy to never see a 2 PG lineup out there. That leaves 12-14 minutes a game for the backup. I'm not completely sold on the fact that Jack would be better than Morris for that stretch. Let Morris defend, run the break, and just run the offense through either Joe or Brook.

[F3LON]

didn't see the game but by reading comments, looks like Hollins substitution pattern is again a huge concern....

the guy is a joke lately when it comes to substitutions.... I feel we lost quite a few games based on his lineups and personnel alone....

i hate this argument. what lineup/rotation has EVER worked for this team this year for more then a 1-2 game span? Hollins has used literally every rotation possible. Big, Small, Traditional, 3 gaurds, atheltic lineups, halfcourt lineups, benched stars, started rookies etc....

When you have a team with no consistent #1 or #2 option, ZERO 2-way players, no rebounders, and no 3 point shooters you really have no options but to just throw crap against the wall and see what sticks that night.

every 2 or 3 game win streak we have had with any lineup has been followed up with a horrific losing streak with that same rotation.

hell look at this board as a microcosm... there are what, a dozen or so of us as regular posters and everyone one of us wasnts a different lineup, a different SG, a different PF... the truth is there is no right awnser. everyone has been bad more often then good and no unit has really had consistent success

It doesn't alarm you that there are certain players who sit for extended periods of time, after they played well n build up a lead, where the other team is building a huge comeback and by the time Hollins re-inserts them its too late?

Or not playing players in favor of small ball bs?

If you are talking about Thad from last night he was in foul trouble.

[MGrand15]

What expectations does a backup PG usually have? Jack is making 6 million with a Team Option. We can ship him out tomorrow if we could. The same can't be said for Deron, Joe or Brook.

Everyone knows how awful Jack is but he was garbage in Cleveland also and we took a gamble hoping he would revert to the NO/GS Jarrett Jack. That gamble isn't anywhere near frustrating as the gamble on Deron, Joe.

Obviously not the same as the big 3 but he's playing 30 minutes a game. Not back up minutes. He's basically a starter on the team. If he's playing badly, there's nothing wrong with calling him out. It's not like he's playing 10 minutes a game and not making an impact. He's at THIRTY minutes and playing a huge role in what's going on. I don't think you've been above calling him out so I'm not talking about you. There's certain people that act like he's playing WELL and there's certain people that act like he's barely playing when he's out there playing a ton. 30 minutes a game from a guy with an awful +/- means A LOT.

I think that the criticism of Jack's play is warranted. I'm more or less defending Hollins to the point where he really has no other choice but to play the guy since he's the only player on the team that can attack the defense, but it comes to the detriment of the team's ball movement and the team's defense.

If Johnson and Williams actually showed up most nights his minutes and usage would be less.

I cannot though, under any circumstances defend Hollins when he plays Jack and Deron at the same time while benching Markel, who should be playing 30+ mins. I don't care if Markel can't score, when he's out there we are a better team period.

I completely agree. And to a lesser extent, I think early in the year, he should've stuck with AA in that Markel spot. I just don't see why Hollins has chosen to ignore an overwhelming sample size of horrendous play with a combo that doesn't even work ON PAPER. Or in theory. Deron is an AWFUL scorer at this point. Jack kills the ball movement. Play them together and Deron becomes solely a scorer who can't score. And to make it even worse, he's often guarded by bigger guys.

I'll defend Hollins for his usage of Brook, his schemes, the adjustments he's made all year, his philosophy, his development of Bojan/Brown/Plumlee. I can't defend him for his mancrush on Jack. I think it's killed us all year.

[Prokorov]

You don't think anyone has ever denied that? People in this board have been praising him all year. There's someone praising him in this thread. If you agree that sucks, then you're agreeing with me. I'm glad.

no one praises jack. at most its been said he hasnt been as bad as dwill at times.

As for Morris, I'm not sure why you think we need to roll a backup PG out there for 20-30 minutes a game. With Markel Brown, AA, Joe Johnson and Bogdanovic - I'm MORE than happy to never see a 2 PG lineup out there. That leaves 12-14 minutes a game for the backup. I'm not completely sold on the fact that Jack would be better than Morris for that stretch. Let Morris defend, run the break, and just run the offense through either Joe or Brook.

those guys all have been terrible as well. Morris is the worst player on the team, he isnt going to be better with more minutes

[MrDollarBills]

The only thing I've praised is Jack's aggressiveness...and that is ONLY because he plays with more fire and and assertiveness then the three guys that make about 65 million combined.

He has become the whipping boy on here when in reality it's Dog Deron and Joe Judas' unreliability that is the cause for Jack's overusage. Jack wouldn't get heavy minutes if those two along with Brook showed up each night.

[Prokorov]

The only thing I've praised is Jack's aggressiveness...and that is ONLY because he plays with more fire and and assertiveness then the three guys that make about 65 million combined.

He has become the whipping boy on here when in reality it's Dog Deron and Joe Judas' unreliability that is the cause for Jack's overusage. Jack wouldn't get heavy minutes if those two along with Brook showed up each night.

exactly.... and this might be why hollisn overplays him so much.

if you are going to lose, why not lose with the guys who are going to work hard, show the young guys that that is how you earn court time. just a guess

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah because regardless, a lot of these outcomes will still be the same with Dog and Judas out there going through the motions.

[lkitt0804]

The only thing I've praised is Jack's aggressiveness...and that is ONLY because he plays with more fire and and assertiveness then the three guys that make about 65 million combined.

He has become the whipping boy on here when in reality it's Dog Deron and Joe Judas' unreliability that is the cause for Jack's overusage. Jack wouldn't get heavy minutes if those two along with Brook showed up each night.

exactly.... and this might be why hollisn overplays him so much.

if you are going to lose, why not lose with the guys who are going to work hard, show the young guys that that is how you earn court time. just a guess

Jack plays a lot because he is one of the top 7 or 8 players on the team. Which is the underlying problem. If Deron is playing only 15-20 minutes a game then I think we can say that Jack plays a lot because Deron. But both are getting starter's minutes because the team is bad.


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