NETS/Cavs PG: Joe remembers how to play basketball!

[Prokorov]

i dont really see the need for one. Give CJ minutes? Sign Thomas robinson?

for me next season is a complete throw away year. be discipline, let the money come off, play up the value of whoever we have and if it makes sense move them for picks.

You do realize we would be on pace to win 15 games, right?

Which will go to the Celtics apparently. So no, I don't think Thad opting out (along with Brook) helps us at all. We need to be competitive. Assuming that only Lopez opts-in, our roster will look like this:

PG - Deron, Jack
SG - Markel Brown
SF - Joe, Bojan, Karasev
PF - Plumlee, CJ
C - Lopez

Our total salary with this 10-man lineup is already at $78M. With so little options available for us, it would be difficult to add talent to this team. We need Brook and Thad for at least next year...or at least their contract to trade (though the thought of this scares me with King at the helm).

is that lineup really much better with thad? what if we signed robinson? id rather give CJ the minutes and see what he has.

[MrDollarBills]

i dont really see the need for one. Give CJ minutes? Sign Thomas robinson?

for me next season is a complete throw away year. be discipline, let the money come off, play up the value of whoever we have and if it makes sense move them for picks.

You do realize we would be on pace to win 15 games, right?

1) i dont agree we couldnt significantly top 15 wins. we would have basically the same team minus thad. thad isnt the difference between 15 and 35 wins.

2) i really dont care if we win 0 games next year as long as we are disciplined and dont add any dumb long term salary, get under the tax, and do what we can to move whatever we can for a pick or picks or young guys on rookie deals.

Basically, your thinking is "the pick isnt going to be ours regardless so who cares what happens"

I understand that.

But here's the downside...if the Nets are really, REALLY bad next year. Like 20 win bad...

that 2016 capspace is just air. None of the top FAs will want to come to a team that is the league's laughing stock, because you can be assured if we gift Ainge a lottery pick the media will eviscerate this franchise.

I'd rather lose Deron or Joe than have Thad/Brook opt out.

[Prokorov]

Basically, your thinking is "the pick isnt going to be ours regardless so who cares what happens"

I understand that.

But here's the downside...if the Nets are really, REALLY bad next year. Like 20 win bad...

that 2016 capspace is just air. None of the top FAs will want to come to a team that is the league's laughing stock, because you can be assured if we gift Ainge a lottery pick the media will eviscerate this franchise.

I'd rather lose Deron or Joe than have Thad/Brook opt out.

I disagree. I dont think a free agent is going to care if we are a 65 loss team, especially when all of those players will be gone and we will have gutted roster where they can join up with 2 other all-star free agents to form a new team. is a free agent really going to care if dwill/johnson/lopez had a terrible season if none of them are on the roster anymore?

Also, it is a pretty riddiculous overreaction to think thad young is worth 10-20 wins. i mean we won the last 3 games without him. whether we win or not is based on how lopez plays and to a lesser extent how dwill and joe play. not how thad plays. im not sure we wouldnt be ebtter with robinson, who i think is a better fit. or that we are much worse with CJ, thad is a nice role player, but his impact isnt that big

[MrDollarBills]

The guys that won't care that the Nets have nothing in place are the kind of guys I'd be wary about signing to long term deals.

I wouldn't be shocked if push comes to shove and Lopez is still here when the smoke clears, especially if he can maintain his consistent efforts. You aren't going to attract a lot of players with a roster that has nothing. Don't get me wrong, guys will take the money...but those are the guys that may not help to create a culture of playing hard and accountability.

I always think back to when the Bulls had a ton of capspace and couldn't get free agents to come within 10 feet of them. that was years ago but still the fact remains.

Knicks had a ton of space years ago and the best that they could do is sign Amare to a contract that couldn't even be insured, Amare was just going with who wanted to pay him the most. Now granted, I will say this about Amare when he did sign on he was playing his ass off for them, was competitive and was a leader until injuries set in and Melo came in. But still...guys that are competitors and wanna win want to see something there before they sign on.

[Paradise]

The guys that won't care that the Nets have nothing in place are the kind of guys I'd be wary about signing to long term deals.

I wouldn't be shocked if push comes to shove and Lopez is still here when the smoke clears, especially if he can maintain his consistent efforts. You aren't going to attract a lot of players with a roster that has nothing. Don't get me wrong, guys will take the money...but those are the guys that may not help to create a culture of playing hard and accountability.

I always think back to when the Bulls had a ton of capspace and couldn't get free agents to come within 10 feet of them. that was years ago but still the fact remains.

Knicks had a ton of space years ago and the best that they could do is sign Amare to a contract that couldn't even be insured, Amare was just going with who wanted to pay him the most. Now granted, I will say this about Amare when he did sign on he was playing his ass off for them, was competitive and was a leader until injuries set in and Melo came in. But still...guys that are competitors and wanna win want to see something there before they sign on.

Exactly. The only stars I see that could be willing to sign here with nothing in place is Kevin Love and Dwight Howard. Aside from that, we have to have some form of an identity or nucleus to attract anyome who would make us an elite contender.

IF Brook continues to play at a superstar level and he opts in this summer. Perhaps a guard like Conley (assuming Gasol walks) could look at us and see similarities to Gasol/Hollins and Markel/Allen then he seriously considers signing here.

Having pure cap space to sign everyone is going to be a crap shoot in a field of teams where everyone has max slot but a core roster established.

[kerry kittles]

The guys that won't care that the Nets have nothing in place are the kind of guys I'd be wary about signing to long term deals.

I wouldn't be shocked if push comes to shove and Lopez is still here when the smoke clears, especially if he can maintain his consistent efforts. You aren't going to attract a lot of players with a roster that has nothing. Don't get me wrong, guys will take the money...but those are the guys that may not help to create a culture of playing hard and accountability.

I always think back to when the Bulls had a ton of capspace and couldn't get free agents to come within 10 feet of them. that was years ago but still the fact remains.

Knicks had a ton of space years ago and the best that they could do is sign Amare to a contract that couldn't even be insured, Amare was just going with who wanted to pay him the most. Now granted, I will say this about Amare when he did sign on he was playing his ass off for them, was competitive and was a leader until injuries set in and Melo came in. But still...guys that are competitors and wanna win want to see something there before they sign on.

Personally, i'm looking at it/hoping as a fan..Billy King's contract expires in the summer of 2016. Prok comes to his sense and realizes the King has run a 2nd franchise into the ground, made a number of short-sided moves, is paying heavy luxury taxes for a crao product. He does something similar to what Dolan did when he handed the reigns of the franchise over to Phil and hands things over to Calipari. There have been reports of his burning desire to win in the NBA, http://www.northjersey.com/sports/baske ... -1.1294851

Why Calipari? Prok and the Nets love splashy moves - there's not much more splashy than Calipari. Yorkmark is close with Calipari - Kentucky played in the first game at the Barclays Center, they are scheduled to play the first game after Nassau Coliseum after it's been renovated.

If there's one man that can pull off what Pat Riley did in 2010 it's Calipari as he has strong ties in this league. He can sell a vision, get guys to want to come together to win. If we waive/stretch Deron we're giving him less than $15 million in committed salary, close to a blank check and having him assemble something worth a damn in Brooklyn.

If you hire Calipari in the SVG/Doc Rivers type role free agents aren't going to think, "hey I'm not going to sign with the Nets they won 15 games last year." Everyone on that team including the one who assembled it would be gone.

Taking on any salary past 2016 throws a wrench in the plans. We need a fresh start.

[Prokorov]

The guys that won't care that the Nets have nothing in place are the kind of guys I'd be wary about signing to long term deals.

no player would care what we have in place unless we have hold overs. if we have a completely clear cap and can build a new team thats all that matters. Players understand that being able to team up is a good thing.

I wouldn't be shocked if push comes to shove and Lopez is still here when the smoke clears, especially if he can maintain his consistent efforts. You aren't going to attract a lot of players with a roster that has nothing. Don't get me wrong, guys will take the money...but those are the guys that may not help to create a culture of playing hard and accountability.

i disagree, i think you will attract more players with an empty roster then you will with one filled with guys who have severly underachieved. I think our roster is more attactive without brook and with a stretched dwill.

Knicks had a ton of space years ago and the best that they could do is sign Amare to a contract that couldn't even be insured, Amare was just going with who wanted to pay him the most. Now granted, I will say this about Amare when he did sign on he was playing his ass off for them, was competitive and was a leader until injuries set in and Melo came in. But still...guys that are competitors and wanna win want to see something there before they sign on.

where did all the free agents go that year? they went to a team that could afford 3 max contracts and teamed up. all the more reason to clear enough money for as many free agents as possible. no one great is going to want to team up with thad young, dwill, and lopez. are odds are better they want to team up with 2 other free agents

[Prokorov]

The guys that won't care that the Nets have nothing in place are the kind of guys I'd be wary about signing to long term deals.

I wouldn't be shocked if push comes to shove and Lopez is still here when the smoke clears, especially if he can maintain his consistent efforts. You aren't going to attract a lot of players with a roster that has nothing. Don't get me wrong, guys will take the money...but those are the guys that may not help to create a culture of playing hard and accountability.

I always think back to when the Bulls had a ton of capspace and couldn't get free agents to come within 10 feet of them. that was years ago but still the fact remains.

Knicks had a ton of space years ago and the best that they could do is sign Amare to a contract that couldn't even be insured, Amare was just going with who wanted to pay him the most. Now granted, I will say this about Amare when he did sign on he was playing his ass off for them, was competitive and was a leader until injuries set in and Melo came in. But still...guys that are competitors and wanna win want to see something there before they sign on.

Exactly. The only stars I see that could be willing to sign here with nothing in place is Kevin Love and Dwight Howard. Aside from that, we have to have some form of an identity or nucleus to attract anyome who would make us an elite contender.

IF Brook continues to play at a superstar level and he opts in this summer. Perhaps a guard like Conley (assuming Gasol walks) could look at us and see similarities to Gasol/Hollins and Markel/Allen then he seriously considers signing here.

Having pure cap space to sign everyone is going to be a crap shoot in a field of teams where everyone has max slot but a core roster established.

id take my chances on a crap shoot over a conley/markel/lopez core. that core isnt winning anything.

[Prokorov]

players dont care what you did, they care about:

1 - can they get paid
2- who can they can play with moving forward

they dont care what a dwill/jj/lopez core did if none of the 3 are still on the roster. and to think so is kind of silly imo. as long as they can tema up with other all-stars or free agents that is all that will matter.

us having thad or dwill or lopez taking 10+ million in cap space is going to be viewed as a negative not a positive

[Paradise]

players dont care what you did, they care about:

1 - can they get paid
2- who can they can play with moving forward

they dont care what a dwill/jj/lopez core did if none of the 3 are still on the roster. and to think so is kind of silly imo. as long as they can tema up with other all-stars or free agents that is all that will matter.

us having thad or dwill or lopez taking 10+ million in cap space is going to be viewed as a negative not a positive

So, apparently nobody would want to play with a Top 10 big man? We're going have 65 million in cap room. Lopez at 10-15 million doesn't change anything with our ablity to sign max players.

Having cap space doesn't mean anything if we don't have some sort of appealing talent already there. You still have to convince a star to attract others.

[Prokorov]

players dont care what you did, they care about:

1 - can they get paid
2- who can they can play with moving forward

they dont care what a dwill/jj/lopez core did if none of the 3 are still on the roster. and to think so is kind of silly imo. as long as they can tema up with other all-stars or free agents that is all that will matter.

us having thad or dwill or lopez taking 10+ million in cap space is going to be viewed as a negative not a positive

So, apparently nobody would want to play with a Top 10 big man? We're going have 65 million in cap room. Lopez at 10-15 million doesn't change anything with our ablity to sign max players.

Having cap space doesn't mean anything if we don't have some sort of appealing talent already there. You still have to convince a star to attract others.

no, i dont think stars want to play with lopez. i dont think a player who has been on nothing but underachieving teams is really a big draw. not saying they dont think he is a good player but i dont think he is someone they would rather team up with then other cetners who would be free agents like noah or dwight.

and yes, having lopez here at 10-15 million would limit how many max players we can sign.

even further, if we do add a free agent to lopez, and its not one of the superstar ones, and its like conley, we wont be very good anyhow.

[Trader_Joe]

I'm torn on Thad and Brook.

I was always weary Thad even before the trade because I always feared King will give him a stupid contract. He's not a full time PF and the worst thing to do is tying up $10-12m on tweener. Hopefully he opts in, so we don't feel compelled to resign him this year.

Brook I don't mind resigning ....if it's a smart deal...as in as few years as possible for as little as possible. But that's asking a lot. If we do though, we could potentially have a bargain contract once the new CBA kicks in.

And I'm with Prok... I want as little salary in 2016 as possible and I'm gonna be peeved if we use up enough cap for another max on the likes of Thad and Mirza.

Ideally in 2016 we have something like....

Conley
Brown l Bogdanovic
Batum
Plumlee
M.Gasol

Like I said...I wouldn't mind Mirza or Thad but they have to be on smart deals.
As for D.Will...not sure if we should stretch him or keep him as a massive expiring contract to either use in trade or add more FA in 2017 when the cap is expected to spike again.

[Prokorov]

I'm torn on Thad and Brook.

I was always weary Thad even before the trade because I always feared King will give him a stupid contract. He's not a full time PF and the worst thing to do is tying up $10-12m on tweener. Hopefully he opts in, so we don't feel compelled to resign him this year.

Brook I don't mind resigning ....if it's a smart deal...as in as few years as possible for as little as possible. But that's asking a lot. If we do though, we could potentially have a bargain contract once the new CBA kicks in.

And I'm with Prok... I want as little salary in 2016 as possible and I'm gonna be peeved if we use up enough cap for another max on the likes of Thad and Mirza.

Ideally in 2016 we have something like....

Conley
Brown l Bogdanovic
Batum
Plumlee
M.Gasol

Like I said...I wouldn't mind Mirza or Thad but they have to be on smart deals.
As for D.Will...not sure if we should stretch him or keep him as a massive expiring contract to either use in trade or add more FA in 2017 when the cap is expected to spike again.

mirza and thad are a package deal this offseason. if thad is in, then you keep mirza cause there is no shot to get under the tax. if we dont get thad back, then you let mirza walk cause it gets us under the tax

[Trader_Joe]

I'm torn on Thad and Brook.

I was always weary Thad even before the trade because I always feared King will give him a stupid contract. He's not a full time PF and the worst thing to do is tying up $10-12m on tweener. Hopefully he opts in, so we don't feel compelled to resign him this year.

Brook I don't mind resigning ....if it's a smart deal...as in as few years as possible for as little as possible. But that's asking a lot. If we do though, we could potentially have a bargain contract once the new CBA kicks in.

And I'm with Prok... I want as little salary in 2016 as possible and I'm gonna be peeved if we use up enough cap for another max on the likes of Thad and Mirza.

Ideally in 2016 we have something like....

Conley
Brown l Bogdanovic
Batum
Plumlee
M.Gasol

Like I said...I wouldn't mind Mirza or Thad but they have to be on smart deals.
As for D.Will...not sure if we should stretch him or keep him as a massive expiring contract to either use in trade or add more FA in 2017 when the cap is expected to spike again.

mirza and thad are a package deal this offseason. if thad is in, then you keep mirza cause there is no shot to get under the tax. if we dont get thad back, then you let mirza walk cause it gets us under the tax

I don't know if the team is going to be willing to pay major repeater tax with both Thad and Mirza...unkess Lopez opts out or we move JJ or D Will.

[Prokorov]

I don't know if the team is going to be willing to pay major repeater tax with both Thad and Mirza...unkess Lopez opts out or we move JJ or D Will.

I think if they can get under the tax they will, but if they cant, then they wont split hairs about how far over they are. If thad and brook opt in then we have no shot to get under the tax unless we can find a way to move joe or deron for cap space(not expiring, but to a team that can absorb 9-11 million and give back cap space).

if thad or brook opt out, then yea, i think mirza is gone and we make the other moves to get under the cap.

[Trader_Joe]

I don't know if the team is going to be willing to pay major repeater tax with both Thad and Mirza...unkess Lopez opts out or we move JJ or D Will.

I think if they can get under the tax they will, but if they cant, then they wont split hairs about how far over they are. If thad and brook opt in then we have no shot to get under the tax unless we can find a way to move joe or deron for cap space(not expiring, but to a team that can absorb 9-11 million and give back cap space).

if thad or brook opt out, then yea, i think mirza is gone and we make the other moves to get under the cap.

I don't know if the team is going to be willing to pay major repeater tax with both Thad and Mirza...unkess Lopez opts out or we move JJ or D Will.[/quote]
They made moves like the AK deal to save money and then saved around $10m in the KG deal. I would think we are 5-6m over the tax tops if we do it...but I actually think we end up right around it.

Also...I have a feeling Mirza is back regardless. Hopefully it's no more than 3/15ish...but I worry it will be a King contract and 4/40.

I hope that
Thad opt s in (we don't overt pay him in this summer)
Lopez opts in so we can reevaluate things next summer.
Jack is traded for a TE and a second
We give Mirza 3/15
We draft a PG
Move Karasev for a couple seconds if possible

D.Will l #1
Brown l AA
Joe l Bogs
Thad l Mirza
Lopez l Plumlee

Still over the tax, so I'd get them moving one of the big contracts.

[Prokorov]

They made moves like the AK deal to save money and then saved around $10m in the KG deal. I would think we are 5-6m over the tax tops if we do it...but I actually think we end up right around it.

Also...I have a feeling Mirza is back regardless. Hopefully it's no more than 3/15ish...but I worry it will be a King contract and 4/40.

Neither of those deals were to save money. the AK deal was because AK asked to be moved and hollins didnt see him as a fit. the KG move brought in thad who King was high on. We also made several moves that cost us a ton vs. the cap. like allowing the contracts of guys like jordan and morris to become gauranteed and also didnt move any high salaries for cap space at the deadline.

for me with mirza its like ive been saying. if thad is back mirza is back. if thad is gone i cant see them signing mirza unless some other big salary is moved like a JJ trade or lopez opting out