GT: Nets V. Pistons

[NyCeEvO]

All of that stuff about Robinson is a joke. Any time he does the things that you praised him for it leads to disaster, he has the 2nd highest turnover % on the team and has a TS% that is so bad he has no business attempting anything but assisted lay ups and putbacks. Robinson has been thrown away like trash from pretty much every team that has given him a chance...yet he's an NBA player, and Reed isn't?? His awareness and bball IQ are horrible, its why he can't stick onto a team.

What you stated about Reed's minutes is a lie. The stuff about his pick and roll defense was also false, his rating against the PnR isn't that bad at all (70th percentile if i remember). On and on and on. The only reason that I'm even engaging in a discussion about back up bigs is because you always have this habit of making blanket statements about players you don't like that are for the most part based on conjecture. Any time Reed has hit the floor he hasn't done anything to hurt the team and honestly has shown flashes of being a decent back up, you call him a stiff but he actually has pretty decent footwork around the rim, that's how I know you're just throwing random stuff out there hoping something sticks. Using blanket terms like "stiff" to discredit him doesn't validate your argument in the slightest. When the guy plays, he gets blocks, he gets boards, and he hustles, and he finishes when dished the ball. You act like he's going out there and playing like Andrea Bargnani while trying to paint Thomas Robinson as some kind of competent basketball player. his DRAPM is -0.01. Obviously you want a positive rating defensively but he's not as bad as you're trying to claim.

But he plays garbage minutes so his DRAPM isn't even accurate.

But in reality, RAPM/DRAPM works best when it has prior information/stats for players to help it relay a more accurate evaluation.

I don't trust single-year RAPM or xRAPM because the former doesn't have data from previous seasons to inform the data it produces for the current season nor the latter because it's heavily influenced by box score stats, which I don't believe are a great indicator of a player's net value.

Since Reed has almost no stats before this year, there really is not enough data to trust a reliable RAPM evaluation.

When I watch him, I see a guy who has pretty good defensive court awareness. We've seen him stay with his man on the weakside but keep an eye on the ball, watch the ballhandler drive on the opposite side, and Reed come across the lane at the perfect time to prevent the ballhandler from dishing to Reed's man for an easy layup and actually block the layup/dunk attempt.

He did this 4 times against the Wolves including against KAT, Wiggins, and Shabazz Muhammad.

You don't make the kind of plays he makes while being dumb.

He needs more playing time to develop, which is probably why Marks has been resting Lopez and having Reed take his minutes. We already know that he's done that specifically to get a look at other players on the roster to see whether they are keepers for next season.

Obviously it doesn't mean that you keep Reed if a good trade is available. But in the context of a who's better between Thomas Robinson and Willie Reed, it's undoubtedly Reed.

T-Rob has received tons of time both as a starter and a reserve over several seasons. Every team has dumped him including the Sixers! You know you're bad if the Sixers don't even want to retain you.

Give me who scores 5 points and gives up 0 because of his good defense, not the guy who scores 10 but gives up 15.

[MrDollarBills]

All of that stuff about Robinson is a joke. Any time he does the things that you praised him for it leads to disaster, he has the 2nd highest turnover % on the team and has a TS% that is so bad he has no business attempting anything but assisted lay ups and putbacks. Robinson has been thrown away like trash from pretty much every team that has given him a chance...yet he's an NBA player, and Reed isn't?? His awareness and bball IQ are horrible, its why he can't stick onto a team.

What you stated about Reed's minutes is a lie. The stuff about his pick and roll defense was also false, his rating against the PnR isn't that bad at all (70th percentile if i remember). On and on and on. The only reason that I'm even engaging in a discussion about back up bigs is because you always have this habit of making blanket statements about players you don't like that are for the most part based on conjecture. Any time Reed has hit the floor he hasn't done anything to hurt the team and honestly has shown flashes of being a decent back up, you call him a stiff but he actually has pretty decent footwork around the rim, that's how I know you're just throwing random stuff out there hoping something sticks. Using blanket terms like "stiff" to discredit him doesn't validate your argument in the slightest. When the guy plays, he gets blocks, he gets boards, and he hustles, and he finishes when dished the ball. You act like he's going out there and playing like Andrea Bargnani while trying to paint Thomas Robinson as some kind of competent basketball player. his DRAPM is -0.01. Obviously you want a positive rating defensively but he's not as bad as you're trying to claim.

But he plays garbage minutes so his DRAPM isn't even accurate.

But in reality, RAPM/DRAPM works best when it has prior information/stats for players to help it relay a more accurate evaluation.

I don't trust single-year RAPM or xRAPM because the former doesn't have data from previous seasons to inform the data it produces for the current season nor the latter because it's heavily influenced by box score stats, which I don't believe are a great indicator of a player's net value.

Since Reed has almost no stats before this year, there really is not enough data to trust a reliable RAPM evaluation.

When I watch him, I see a guy who has pretty good defensive court awareness. We've seen him stay with his man on the weakside but keep an eye on the ball, watch the ballhandler drive on the opposite side, and Reed come across the lane at the perfect time to prevent the ballhandler from dishing to Reed's man for an easy layup and actually block the layup/dunk attempt.

He did this 4 times against the Wolves including against KAT, Wiggins, and Shabazz Muhammad.

You don't make the kind of plays he makes while being dumb.

He needs more playing time to develop, which is probably why Marks has been resting Lopez and having Reed take his minutes. We already know that he's done that specifically to get a look at other players on the roster to see whether they are keepers for next season.

Obviously it doesn't mean that you keep Reed if a good trade is available. But in the context of a who's better between Thomas Robinson and Willie Reed, it's undoubtedly Reed.

T-Rob has received tons of time both as a starter and a reserve over several seasons. Every team has dumped him including the Sixers! You know you're bad if the Sixers don't even want to retain you.

Give me who scores 5 points and gives up 0 because of his good defense, not the guy who scores 10 but gives up 15.

Fair enough on the RAPM.

But you pretty much are saying what I'm saying about Reed. This stuff Prok is coming up with "low IQ", "stiff", "does nothing" is a complete ass pull. Reed has a small sample size, but its still a pretty decent one and I think he's a player worth considering keeping around going forward. He's put together two good starting assignments thus far now that he's being evaluated. His positives far outweigh TROB

And I like thomas robinson. He's dumb basketball wise, but I think he's a good kid and he works and plays hard so I don't want to poo poo all over him. But if I have to choose, i go with Reed. Pretty competent finisher inside, hits the glass, blocks shots, and knows his limitations. Knowing your limitations goes into the basketball IQ equation as well. His skillset is also conducive to what you want from your modern day 5 man, especially a back up.

[NyCeEvO]

All of that stuff about Robinson is a joke. Any time he does the things that you praised him for it leads to disaster, he has the 2nd highest turnover % on the team and has a TS% that is so bad he has no business attempting anything but assisted lay ups and putbacks. Robinson has been thrown away like trash from pretty much every team that has given him a chance...yet he's an NBA player, and Reed isn't?? His awareness and bball IQ are horrible, its why he can't stick onto a team.

What you stated about Reed's minutes is a lie. The stuff about his pick and roll defense was also false, his rating against the PnR isn't that bad at all (70th percentile if i remember). On and on and on. The only reason that I'm even engaging in a discussion about back up bigs is because you always have this habit of making blanket statements about players you don't like that are for the most part based on conjecture. Any time Reed has hit the floor he hasn't done anything to hurt the team and honestly has shown flashes of being a decent back up, you call him a stiff but he actually has pretty decent footwork around the rim, that's how I know you're just throwing random stuff out there hoping something sticks. Using blanket terms like "stiff" to discredit him doesn't validate your argument in the slightest. When the guy plays, he gets blocks, he gets boards, and he hustles, and he finishes when dished the ball. You act like he's going out there and playing like Andrea Bargnani while trying to paint Thomas Robinson as some kind of competent basketball player. his DRAPM is -0.01. Obviously you want a positive rating defensively but he's not as bad as you're trying to claim.

But he plays garbage minutes so his DRAPM isn't even accurate.

But in reality, RAPM/DRAPM works best when it has prior information/stats for players to help it relay a more accurate evaluation.

I don't trust single-year RAPM or xRAPM because the former doesn't have data from previous seasons to inform the data it produces for the current season nor the latter because it's heavily influenced by box score stats, which I don't believe are a great indicator of a player's net value.

Since Reed has almost no stats before this year, there really is not enough data to trust a reliable RAPM evaluation.

When I watch him, I see a guy who has pretty good defensive court awareness. We've seen him stay with his man on the weakside but keep an eye on the ball, watch the ballhandler drive on the opposite side, and Reed come across the lane at the perfect time to prevent the ballhandler from dishing to Reed's man for an easy layup and actually block the layup/dunk attempt.

He did this 4 times against the Wolves including against KAT, Wiggins, and Shabazz Muhammad.

You don't make the kind of plays he makes while being dumb.

He needs more playing time to develop, which is probably why Marks has been resting Lopez and having Reed take his minutes. We already know that he's done that specifically to get a look at other players on the roster to see whether they are keepers for next season.

Obviously it doesn't mean that you keep Reed if a good trade is available. But in the context of a who's better between Thomas Robinson and Willie Reed, it's undoubtedly Reed.

T-Rob has received tons of time both as a starter and a reserve over several seasons. Every team has dumped him including the Sixers! You know you're bad if the Sixers don't even want to retain you.

Give me who scores 5 points and gives up 0 because of his good defense, not the guy who scores 10 but gives up 15.

Fair enough on the RAPM.

But you pretty much are saying what I'm saying about Reed. This stuff Prok is coming up with "low IQ", "stiff", "does nothing" is a complete ass pull. Reed has a small sample size, but its still a pretty decent one and I think he's a player worth considering keeping around going forward. He's put together two good starting assignments thus far now that he's being evaluated. His positives far outweigh TROB

And I like thomas robinson. He's dumb basketball wise, but I think he's a good kid and he works and plays hard so I don't want to poo poo all over him. But if I have to choose, i go with Reed. Pretty competent finisher inside, hits the glass, blocks shots, and knows his limitations. Knowing your limitations goes into the basketball IQ equation as well. His skillset is also conducive to what you want from your modern day 5 man, especially a back up.

Yes, I was agreeing with you.

In short, we can't really go by advanced stats, especially RAPM, but even with how faulty they are right now, he's not coming off as horrible.

T-Rob, on the other hand, is a nice guy but an empty stat player. He makes nice highlight plays but his low IQ kills you defensively so frequently.

[Prokorov]

those numbers are in extremely low, sporadic volume, mostly in garbage minutes. and with like no touches.

Reed is a scrub. go sign another summer league guy and pay him the minimum

Those numbers reflect his consistent minutes as a backup. Not garbage time. You can't cherry pick when or how stats are when it doesn't fit your narrative or opinion.

He's been flat out better than T-Rob and he's doing nothing different that Plumlee got praised for. Is he replaceable? Yes, of course but what would be the point in a rising cap where any solid backup will make more than the vet minimum. He's also 25. Any career backup looking for the vet minimum will be an old journeymen like Ryan Hollins, Drew Gooden. All of them are hardly better then Reed.

Exactly, that's why I can't stand this guy sometimes. He always cherry pick and he's always biased it's annoying but he gets mad when you don't have the same opinion as him. He is too stubborn and always talking out that a$$ . Can't believe he really said T Rob is better than Reed lol he obviously doesn't watch the games. He just goes off stats and advanced stats but he doesn't want to use it here lol this guy

says the guy who screams in all caps, never provides any stats, curses and name calls.

I might be wrong about reed, but lets not pretend 400 backup minutes is some great example for evaluating a player. From what ive seen, he is a 3rd string NBA player. And id rather just get the next will reed and pay him the minimum then keep reed and pay him 1.2 Million. I dont see reed having a ceiling anything higher then what we are seeing now, and my feeling is he gets worse with more volume not better(as is the case with alot of low level backups). I'd look to summer league or d-league and just get another young big, pay him the minimum and hope for the best.

I'm fine with others having another opinion. having my own and explaining why i feel that way is kind of the point of forums. If someone thinks reed is more of a backup then a third string, is going to get better with more volume, and doesnt value inching closer to max deals, then i can understand wanting to keep him. i just dont share that view.