2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[Prokorov]

Not a bum, and I have him top 10, but you could easily argue him not there. He's certainly not in the Jordan/Lebron/Kareem tier, after that I have Shaq/Duncan/Wilt/Magic/Bird/Russell in some order. Thats 9 right there, that I think were clearly better than Kobe (except maybe Bird,and only because of his lack of longevity. He was clearly better at his best).

After that, you can make arguments for plenty of guys at 10, even though I have Kobe there, I don't think its ridiculous to have him outside it

Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?

pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.

Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

its laughable to have hakeem over kobe.

hakeem get insanely overreated on real GM

[Hello Brooklyn]

in 2000-01 playoffs, Bryant at age 22 averaged 29pts, 7rebs, 6asts 46% FG (55%TS) on their way to a 2nd championship. Trying to frame the narrative as if Bryant was a bystander during those three seasons is 100% fallacious argument if anything above all else. Lakers don't win those championships without Bryant on the wing just as much as it was O'Neal in the post. That's what made them nearly unstoppable.

I didn't say he was a bystander.

But Shaq was by far the better player all 3 of those Championships.

You can't use the "Kobe has 5 and LeBron has 3" argument because its stupid.

You know damn well if LeBron had played with prime Shaq early in his career he would have had more Championships.

Shaq also had to join another superstar in Dewayne Wade in order to win another chip after leaving Kobe. Shaq even joined a 2x MVP in Steve Nash and didn't end up accomplishing anything.

Kobe won two more with Pau Gasol, who was definitely a star, but far from a superstar NBA talent.

To compare with Lebron, Kobe's championships without Shaq are the equivalent of Bron having to carry a team with just Kevin Love or Chris Bosh to multiple championships. While Shaq might have been at the height of his career in LA he clearly had to play with superior talents (Nash, Wade) than to what Kobe had when he won with Pau & Derek Fisher.

Watch on YouTube

LOL at you bringing up Shaq playing with Nash when he was well past his prime. Thats a stupid argument.

By the time Shaq joined Wade he was nearing the end of his prime anyway.

You're right about Kobe winning 2 as the main guy.

But LeBron won 3 as the main guy. So I'll talk that over Kobe's 2.

And no thats a dumb comparison. Kobe's Lakers teams were stacked. He had Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom Andrew Bynum, and the best coach of all time in Phil Jackson.

Kobe wasn't even good in the 2010 Finals and was absolutely terrible Game 7.

In reality, Gasol should have won FMVP that year. Stop acting like he didn't have a ton of help.

[mademan]

I didn't say he was a bystander.

But Shaq was by far the better player all 3 of those Championships.

You can't use the "Kobe has 5 and LeBron has 3" argument because its stupid.

You know damn well if LeBron had played with prime Shaq early in his career he would have had more Championships.

Shaq also had to join another superstar in Dewayne Wade in order to win another chip after leaving Kobe. Shaq even joined a 2x MVP in Steve Nash and didn't end up accomplishing anything.

Kobe won two more with Pau Gasol, who was definitely a star, but far from a superstar NBA talent.

To compare with Lebron, Kobe's championships without Shaq are the equivalent of Bron having to carry a team with just Kevin Love or Chris Bosh to multiple championships. While Shaq might have been at the height of his career in LA he clearly had to play with superior talents (Nash, Wade) than to what Kobe had when he won with Pau & Derek Fisher.

Watch on YouTube

LOL at you bringing up Shaq playing with Nash when he was well past his prime. Thats a stupid argument.

By the time Shaq joined Wade he was nearing the end of his prime anyway.

You're right about Kobe winning 2 as the main guy.

But LeBron won 3 as the main guy. So I'll talk that over Kobe's 2.

And no thats a dumb comparison. Kobe's Lakers teams were stacked. He had Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom Andrew Bynum, and the best coach of all time in Phil Jackson.

Kobe wasn't even good in the 2010 Finals and was absolutely terrible Game 7.

In reality, Gasol should have won FMVP that year. Stop acting like he didn't have a ton of help.

It's like relativeity means nothing. Ya, Lebrons got a stacked roster, but he's still playing in a league with the Warriors in it. Kobe always, ALWAYS, had the best supporting cast in all his championships run, and only one you can argue against is 2010.

[vincecarter4pres]

Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?

pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.

Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

its laughable to have hakeem over kobe.

hakeem get insanely overreated on real GM

Hakeem was overrated? Yeesh! Hakeem was a monster and incredibly skilled, especially for a big man. One of a handful of players to ever win on his own as well. Him and top notch role players, no other star and dominated once of the most dominant young bigs of all time in a sweep.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Who are you pushing Bryant out for? Oscar? Jerry West?

pound for pound skill wise the only people better on that list arguably are Jordan and Lebron. I'm not just counting accolades, I'm talking about pure overall basketball skill as a player. This may be biased, but i can't count your skill level to be above those three if you need someone to dump the ball inside to you for you to be able to be effective.

Now, toss accolades/accomplishments into the equation and yes, i definitely take Kareem and Jordan 1st and foremost over anyone.

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

its laughable to have hakeem over kobe.

hakeem get insanely overreated on real GM

Hakeem won two Championships with no all stars.

What did Kobe do without all-stars except blow a 3-1 lead?

[vincecarter4pres]

Players off the top of my head who I rank over Kobe all time:

Jordan
Lebron
Shaq
Magic
Duncan
Dr. J
KG
Hakeem
Wilt


Players who there's a very legitimate argument for:
KAJ
Bird
The Big O
Isiah Thomas
Charles Barkley
Malone
Dirk

[kamaze]

LOL @ KOBE BRYANT being on the same tier as Dirk. Okay.

Even if you say Duncan or Shaq over Bryant, which is not a bad argument at all, as top player after Jordan retired following his last championship win, Kobe Bryant was the top and deadliest perimeter player in the NBA from at bare minimum 2000-2009 until Lebron ascended to win league MVP. You think people compared him to Michael Jordan because they have similar mannerisms?

yeah okay peeps, 5 Time NBA Champion, MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 15x all NBA team nods 12x All NBA Defense and the third leading scorer in the history of the sport is on Dirk's tier Even putting Dwayne Wade on Kobe's tier is laughable.

Either some folks here never watched this dude play, or this has more to do with Bryant being a complete douchebag than it does than what actually transpired on the court.

People have been brainwashed by ESPN about Lebron and forgot who the closest player to MJ is. How many rings did Kobe win? 5

How many did Lebron win? 3

In a tougher conference too stop the madness.

This is such a stupid argument.

You know and I know that those first 3 rings were because of Shaq.

You're the one who's stupid if you think the Lakers didn't need Kobe...

I agree Shaq was more important to that team though but back on topic how bout them Nets?

[kamaze]

This is such a stupid argument.

You know and I know that those first 3 rings were because of Shaq.

in 2000-01 playoffs, Bryant at age 22 averaged 29pts, 7rebs, 6asts 46% FG (55%TS) on their way to a 2nd championship. Trying to frame the narrative as if Bryant was a bystander during those three seasons is 100% fallacious argument if anything above all else. Lakers don't win those championships without Bryant on the wing just as much as it was O'Neal in the post. That's what made them nearly unstoppable.

I didn't say he was a bystander.

But Shaq was by far the better player all 3 of those Championships.

You can't use the "Kobe has 5 and LeBron has 3" argument because its stupid.

You know damn well if LeBron had played with prime Shaq early in his career he would have had more Championships.

Great players have always measured who was better by rings it's stupid if you follow programming telling you whose better. If I have 5 dollars and you have 3 who has more money? Yeah whatever.

[ChokeFasncists]

I didn't say he was a bystander.

But Shaq was by far the better player all 3 of those Championships.

You can't use the "Kobe has 5 and LeBron has 3" argument because its stupid.

You know damn well if LeBron had played with prime Shaq early in his career he would have had more Championships.

Shaq also had to join another superstar in Dewayne Wade in order to win another chip after leaving Kobe. Shaq even joined a 2x MVP in Steve Nash and didn't end up accomplishing anything.

Kobe won two more with Pau Gasol, who was definitely a star, but far from a superstar NBA talent.

To compare with Lebron, Kobe's championships without Shaq are the equivalent of Bron having to carry a team with just Kevin Love or Chris Bosh to multiple championships. While Shaq might have been at the height of his career in LA he clearly had to play with superior talents (Nash, Wade) than to what Kobe had when he won with Pau & Derek Fisher.

Watch on YouTube

LOL at you bringing up Shaq playing with Nash when he was well past his prime. Thats a stupid argument.

By the time Shaq joined Wade he was nearing the end of his prime anyway.

You're right about Kobe winning 2 as the main guy.

But LeBron won 3 as the main guy. So I'll talk that over Kobe's 2.

And no thats a dumb comparison. Kobe's Lakers teams were stacked. He had Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom Andrew Bynum, and the best coach of all time in Phil Jackson.

Kobe wasn't even good in the 2010 Finals and was absolutely terrible Game 7.

In reality, Gasol should have won FMVP that year. Stop acting like he didn't have a ton of help.

MWP was no joke either.

[ChokeFasncists]

Players off the top of my head who I rank over Kobe all time:

Jordan
Lebron
Shaq
Magic
Duncan
Dr. J
KG
Hakeem
Wilt


Players who there's a very legitimate argument for:
KAJ
Bird
The Big O
Isiah Thomas
Charles Barkley
Malone
Dirk

Shouldn't Russell be on there? (I've never seen him play but them chips......)

[treiz]

Waiting for the preseason is a drag. Nothing to do. Time to predict minute distributions again:

Lin (30) / Russell (10) / Dinwiddie (8)
Russell (20) / Kilpatrick (20) / Levert (8)
Crabbe (28) / Levert (16) / Carroll (4)
RHJ (24) / Carroll (16) / Booker (8)
Mozgov (24) / Booker (16) / Allen (8)

Can't really find minutes for Whitehead, Harris, and Acy.

I think we're going to implement something similar towards the backend of last year where it's a 9-man (ish) rotation with guys coming in and out of the lineup on a weekly or bi-weekly occurrence. This will certainly depend on each of the players performances as well as their energy levels since we play such a high tempo.

[Aussienet3]

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

its laughable to have hakeem over kobe.

hakeem get insanely overreated on real GM

Hakeem won two Championships with no all stars.

What did Kobe do without all-stars except blow a 3-1 lead?

I think people (not you) forget that if Jordan doesn't leave the nba ( insert conspiracy theory here ) the Dream may not have any rings at all and would be seen as another Ewing. Im not saying he wasn't a great player. He clearly was.

[MrDollarBills]

in 2000-01 playoffs, Bryant at age 22 averaged 29pts, 7rebs, 6asts 46% FG (55%TS) on their way to a 2nd championship. Trying to frame the narrative as if Bryant was a bystander during those three seasons is 100% fallacious argument if anything above all else. Lakers don't win those championships without Bryant on the wing just as much as it was O'Neal in the post. That's what made them nearly unstoppable.

I didn't say he was a bystander.

But Shaq was by far the better player all 3 of those Championships.

You can't use the "Kobe has 5 and LeBron has 3" argument because its stupid.

You know damn well if LeBron had played with prime Shaq early in his career he would have had more Championships.

Shaq also had to join another superstar in Dewayne Wade in order to win another chip after leaving Kobe. Shaq even joined a 2x MVP in Steve Nash and didn't end up accomplishing anything.

Kobe won two more with Pau Gasol, who was definitely a star, but far from a superstar NBA talent.

To compare with Lebron, Kobe's championships without Shaq are the equivalent of Bron having to carry a team with just Kevin Love or Chris Bosh to multiple championships. While Shaq might have been at the height of his career in LA he clearly had to play with superior talents (Nash, Wade) than to what Kobe had when he won with Pau & Derek Fisher.

Watch on YouTube

Pau Gasol is going to be a hall of famer. I'm not going to say he was on some superstar tier, but I just wanted to say that Gasol shouldn't be downplayed either.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't understand how you can say Kobe was better at basketball than Magic Shaq, Larry Bird, Wilt, Hakeem or Kareem.

What did Kobe do that was so amazing? He was a great scorer but he was never particularly efficient. He only won 1 MVP award. He was never a particularly good passer.

Kobe was an amazing player but he simply doesn't reach that upper echelon of guys like you're trying to say. I personally do not have him in my top 10 of all time:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

I don't see how you take Kobe over any of those guys.

its laughable to have hakeem over kobe.

hakeem get insanely overreated on real GM

Hakeem won two Championships with no all stars.

What did Kobe do without all-stars except blow a 3-1 lead?

Clyde Drexler is a top 5 Shooting guard in the history of the sport. The narratives that you're laying out in an attempt to discredit Bryant are seriously clashing with what really happened.

Also, Hakeem won his two titles when Jordan was 1) out of the league and 2) coming back after a year long layoff and got knocked out by Shaq/Penny and The Magic.

Just saying.

That being said though, I don't think Hakeem is overrated. I would take Kobe or Oscar's resume over Hakeem's personally though.