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Where do we find a PF of the Future?

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shakendfries
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Re: Where do we find a PF of the Future? 

Post#61 » by shakendfries » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:49 am

What does the PF position truly mean in the modern NBA?



Now that everyone is running pick-and-rolls and shooting 3s, the landscape at the 4 spot has changed. If power forwards are spending most of the game spotting up 25-plus feet from the basket, smaller, more perimeter-oriented athletes who would never be able to survive in the post against old-school Goliaths like Zach Randolph become more valuable. Conversely, the worm has turned for stretch 4s like Ersan Ilyasova, who has played for six teams in the past three seasons. The Turkish forward was a mismatch nightmare for traditional big men because he could hold his own in the paint and take slower defenders out on the perimeter. However, opposing teams can go small against him knowing he can’t punish them in the post, and then attack him in the pick-and-roll on defense. The stretch 4 has gone from the cutting edge to obsolete in a couple of years. The revolution is starting to eat its own.

Teams are abandoning the power forward position entirely and sliding small forwards from the 3 to the 4. Shawn Marion was one of the first combo forwards to make the transition back in 2004, and now everyone is doing it, with former lottery picks like Marvin Williams and Al-Farouq Aminu, once considered busts, reinventing themselves as small-ball power forwards. On the other hand, established veteran 4s like Boris Diaw, Luis Scola, David Lee, and Josh Smith have fallen out of the league, and once-promising youngsters like Donatas Motiejunas, Terrence Jones, and Thomas Robinson can’t find NBA jobs. Some 4s have been able to transition to the 5, but the league isn’t exactly running low on centers either. It’s kill or be killed at power forward, where the game has changed and everyone is fighting for a job.

-JONATHAN TJARKS


Any discussion revolving around the "future" of the PF position must take the position's evolution into account

Note: the Ringer used Caris LeVert in its analysis of the modern shooting guard
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Re: Where do we find a PF of the Future? 

Post#62 » by ChokeFasncists » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:42 am

shakendfries wrote:What does the PF position truly mean in the modern NBA?



Now that everyone is running pick-and-rolls and shooting 3s, the landscape at the 4 spot has changed. If power forwards are spending most of the game spotting up 25-plus feet from the basket, smaller, more perimeter-oriented athletes who would never be able to survive in the post against old-school Goliaths like Zach Randolph become more valuable. Conversely, the worm has turned for stretch 4s like Ersan Ilyasova, who has played for six teams in the past three seasons. The Turkish forward was a mismatch nightmare for traditional big men because he could hold his own in the paint and take slower defenders out on the perimeter. However, opposing teams can go small against him knowing he can’t punish them in the post, and then attack him in the pick-and-roll on defense. The stretch 4 has gone from the cutting edge to obsolete in a couple of years. The revolution is starting to eat its own.

Teams are abandoning the power forward position entirely and sliding small forwards from the 3 to the 4. Shawn Marion was one of the first combo forwards to make the transition back in 2004, and now everyone is doing it, with former lottery picks like Marvin Williams and Al-Farouq Aminu, once considered busts, reinventing themselves as small-ball power forwards. On the other hand, established veteran 4s like Boris Diaw, Luis Scola, David Lee, and Josh Smith have fallen out of the league, and once-promising youngsters like Donatas Motiejunas, Terrence Jones, and Thomas Robinson can’t find NBA jobs. Some 4s have been able to transition to the 5, but the league isn’t exactly running low on centers either. It’s kill or be killed at power forward, where the game has changed and everyone is fighting for a job.

-JONATHAN TJARKS


Any discussion revolving around the "future" of the PF position must take the position's evolution into account

Note: the Ringer used Caris LeVert in its analysis of the modern shooting guard

Good stuff. No wonder Ersan got such a small contract, J Green and Mirotic are both unsigned.

Neither Marvin Williams nor Aminu were shooters when they came into the league. Bodes well for RHJ to have switched in a timely manner.

lol@BS who succeeded MDA and hated three point shooting, was clueless in modern defense, look what he did to Randle. I think he might be still salvageable.

Interesting the article said LVJ played "point-forward" as a Wolverine, he does look the part

KCP’s ability to guard either guard spot, meanwhile, will allow the Lakers to move Lonzo off the ball on defense. At 6-foot-6 and 190 pounds, Ball doesn’t have the quickness to stay in front of smaller guards, and he was roasted by fellow lottery pick DeAaron Fox in the NCAA tournament.

OK, now I understand why Magic had to do what he did

Playing [Winslow] at the 4 wouldn’t be as easy in the NBA, as he’s not nearly as long as other undersized 4s like Draymond Green and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, both of whom have over-7-foot-1 wingspans.

One strategy teams have used to keep nonshooting wings on the floor is to invert the offense and use them as the roll man with a center spotting up at the 3-point line: see the Nets with Hollis-Jefferson and Brook Lopez, and the Thunder with Roberson and Serge Ibaka.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/8/22/16184914/small-forwards-brandon-ingram-justise-winslow-joe-ingles

Sounds good
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: Where do we find a PF of the Future? 

Post#63 » by J_LA » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:17 pm

ChokeFasncists wrote:
J_LA wrote:I don't know how much better or how much worse Deng is than DMC at this point but Deng was pretty bad last season and I don't see that changing for any reason.

Could it be the team that's more of the problem or cuz he's playing out of position at SF?

He was still pretty good the year before


I'm not sure. When the team was playing well to start the season seemed like Deng was the only one struggling. Luke played him at pf for a bit but not much changed. Finally they shut him down. I guess we will see what happens this season but I don't think he's someone you can rely on for anything at this point.
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Re: Where do we find a PF of the Future? 

Post#64 » by ChokeFasncists » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:01 am

J_LA wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:
J_LA wrote:I don't know how much better or how much worse Deng is than DMC at this point but Deng was pretty bad last season and I don't see that changing for any reason.

Could it be the team that's more of the problem or cuz he's playing out of position at SF?

He was still pretty good the year before


I'm not sure. When the team was playing well to start the season seemed like Deng was the only one struggling. Luke played him at pf for a bit but not much changed. Finally they shut him down. I guess we will see what happens this season but I don't think he's someone you can rely on for anything at this point.

Yeah, out of position to start the year, (looks like he got better in Dec, then got hurt in Jan?) then come off the bench as PF? That wouldn't work very well either. If the Lakers wanted to win, they should have started Deng at the 4, ala Marvin Williams/Aminu/Draymond/Tobias and bring Randle off the bench. Very bad idea from Kupcake, no wonder he got fired.
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.

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