GT: (2-1) Nets @ (2-1) Magic - Tuesday, 10/24/17, 7:00pm YES

[bws94]

Roy and MDB, I look at DLo as a combo guard expected to go into the season in the 2 hole and interchanging at the 1 now put in the position of playing the 1. His natural tendencies is to score, he's a scorer. Now he's altering that. It'll take time to find the balance. I think Roy's right in that he has to look at some of the things that go into him shifting over at the 1. And I think we're all in agreement that we'd like to see less shots, more efficiency from him. Also, that he's playing very well. I'd add, he's a guy to build around. I hope he stays on the floor because I'm beginning to believe in the Nets PG curse

[Prokorov]

Didn't we just announce that we had excorcised our option for those players for next year. That means we have them under contract for next season. I'm confused. If they are under rookie contracts until the end of next season. why would we be discussing contracts this off season?
Legit question btw.

Because if we don't extend them in this offseason, then they would become Restricted Free Agents next offseason

and as RFA's then we likely have to pay them alot more money. someone would give Russell a max deal for sure.

Unless the guy is going to be a clear max player (Anthony Davis, Giannis, etc) you typically want to avoid RFA like the plague. or else you end up giving like 27 million a year to otter porter

[Prokorov]

What do you guys think about putting Crabbe next to DLo in the starting lineup so he can get into his groove early on, rather than off the bench? Then have Din, Caris, and Harris off the bench. Harris is your other great shooter, so that spreads out the deep threat talent. Also let’s and Din play off each other as ball handlers and slashers.

I’d shake the rotation up tonight against the Cavs and see if anything different works.

Disappointed how we last against the Magic last night. Was a winnable game for sure. That last sequence of 3 missed 3s was just painful to watch.

I feel like this team is really something special though... fun and engaging. I have a lot of confidence in Russell and it’s wild to think he’s so young and we’ll be able to lock him up for as long as we want. I’ve also been super impressed with RHJ. He definitely has taken his game to the next level. I think bringing Russell in was the best thing for his confidence.

But part of me thinks we’re still in need of another difference maker. Someone else, like Russell, where we can make a move to get him and it’s somewhat under the radar. I think it would be a steal if we could wiggle Parker out of Milwaukee somehow... I know he’s not playing until January or February... but if we can help facilitate a PHX-MIL-BKN trade where we help the Bucks get Bledsoe and we snipe Parker, I’d reaaaaally think we’d make out amazing. Now I don’t know exactly what we’d give up, and I know people love some of our current group, but Parker and Russell together could be dangerous.

Just some early morning ramblings... carry on


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Id rather start levert to get another ball handler and 2 way guy on the floor. also prefer to start games with energy guys.

With Crabbe i think it benefits to bring him in off the bench and if he has it going extend him to bigger minutes and close the game with him

[Prokorov]

But part of me thinks we’re still in need of another difference maker. Someone else, like Russell, where we can make a move to get him and it’s somewhat under the radar. I think it would be a steal if we could wiggle Parker out of Milwaukee somehow... I know he’s not playing until January or February... but if we can help facilitate a PHX-MIL-BKN trade where we help the Bucks get Bledsoe and we snipe Parker, I’d reaaaaally think we’d make out amazing. Now I don’t know exactly what we’d give up, and I know people love some of our current group, but Parker and Russell together could be dangerous.

We have guys who player hard, we have role players but you are right we 100% lack difference makers. Russell is it. I know everyone is high on levert, but russell and allen if he turns into a defensive star are the only guys i see as potential all-stars on this team.

As far as parker, im a huge fan. but no chance i take him. cant afford to pay him huge money with those knees. if he didnt become a top 20 player, it would cripple us.

I think we just need to hope we can draft a legit allstar calibur guy in 2019 or 2020. or wait until 2021 when some of these big salaries are off the book, we become more respected, and maybe land a good free agent

[Prokorov]

That's what I meant. I guess I should've written "by the end of the next 3 seasons, we'll have their new and much larger contracts on our books".

That's presuming that they'd stay of course.

Right now, it's easy to be a fan because we have likable players on rookie deals and the GM has no pressure to put a playoff contender out there yet. But the "happy go lucky" situation changes this upcoming offseason, when we have to project who is worth keeping at what price and how will we be able to field a playoff (or better) caliber squad.

This is why I've been so anxious with Marks previous RFA deals. Those massive contracts would take up huge chunks of cap space while we're thinking about how much we can afford to pay these young guys.

If DLo gets 25% of the cap, Levert gets 20-25%, and RHJ gets 17-20%, you have to pray that that core is good enough to be a legit playoff threat. By the end of Crabbe's deal, we'll have to think about Jarrett Allen's contract extension.

Maybe the Marks was thinking that the size of contracts given to RFAs doesn't matter that much while they're waiting for 2019. At the same time, it's easy to see why someone like me could take his willingness to give out RFA max contracts to guys who aren't worth it as a potential bad sign of things to come when cap management is going to be really important in the coming offseasons.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Yes... exactly how I feel and i know we have always been on the same page there. Its why i didnt want bazemore or otto porter and its no secret how upset i am with the crabbe trade.

We all assume marks is good managing the cap because of how well he has done with other moves. but the reality is, he has never had anything close to cap issues to deal with. he will after this season. some huge decisions which will help dictate his worth as a GM. I think most could forgive Crabbe if he failed. but if he pays DLO 25 million, Levert 20 million, RHJ 20 million and that core fails, thats a bad look

i love what he has done in the draft. i love what he has done finding guys like dinwiddie and harris. i love what he did bringing in enny and getting leaders like booker and carrole and lin.

but that doesnt mean he is without flaw. and his willingness to throw huge money at mediocure players has always alarmed me

[Prokorov]

What do you guys think about putting Crabbe next to DLo in the starting lineup so he can get into his groove early on, rather than off the bench? Then have Din, Caris, and Harris off the bench. Harris is your other great shooter, so that spreads out the deep threat talent. Also let’s and Din play off each other as ball handlers and slashers.

I’d shake the rotation up tonight against the Cavs and see if anything different works.

Disappointed how we last against the Magic last night. Was a winnable game for sure. That last sequence of 3 missed 3s was just painful to watch.

I feel like this team is really something special though... fun and engaging. I have a lot of confidence in Russell and it’s wild to think he’s so young and we’ll be able to lock him up for as long as we want. I’ve also been super impressed with RHJ. He definitely has taken his game to the next level. I think bringing Russell in was the best thing for his confidence.

But part of me thinks we’re still in need of another difference maker. Someone else, like Russell, where we can make a move to get him and it’s somewhat under the radar. I think it would be a steal if we could wiggle Parker out of Milwaukee somehow... I know he’s not playing until January or February... but if we can help facilitate a PHX-MIL-BKN trade where we help the Bucks get Bledsoe and we snipe Parker, I’d reaaaaally think we’d make out amazing. Now I don’t know exactly what we’d give up, and I know people love some of our current group, but Parker and Russell together could be dangerous.

Just some early morning ramblings... carry on


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Down the stretch there was a lot of poor decision making that I chalk up to poor decision making but also bad strategy

I get it the three of the home run but they had changes to extend the game by going for 2 but it's ingrained go for the three the three of the only good shot

I guess it's the gsw era that we are in but last night was another v example of why I hate that strategy

I think the key to it is get CLV to penetrate and draw fouls. Go for the +1s and if you don't get them, you get 2 FTs. With Brook we had a post scorer, Lin a penetrating veteran that draws fouls. One's gone, one's out for the season, so look at what we have to see who can get inside and make buckets or get to the foul line. I think it's CLV, in time.

Brook was awful as a go to guy late in games.. Lin would certianly help though.

but honestly, we lost last night because we coudlnt get stops late. fournier went off and we simply didnt execute defensively in the pick and roll.

offensively we got great looks and just bricked them

[Prokorov]

I'd like to see DLo get more efficient. 29 minutes, cap out in the high teens or 20s for shots. 24 is a bit too many and some, to me, at the end of the game were bordering on hero ball. But I tend to find a lot of players hero balling toward the end of games (I thought that of Lin, for instance, last season in some games). But it's true DLo didn't get have another guy on the team to create his own shot and reliable in the clutch (beyond DMC perhaps). Crabbe was off.

He had no choice but to play hero ball the last few possesions. he had set up tons of teammates and they kept missing. and levert had a couple late turnovers. no one had anything going. we needed him to try and score points when everyone couldnt hit open jumpers.... he showed a ton of restraint... he hit 4 early threes and instead of trying to go for a huge night he stayed within the offense.

The assists have to go up for the whole team. Something in the dynamics last night led to less assists than there should have been for the whole team.

We simply missed open shots and turned it over under the hoop. i dont think we need to read much into it was an off night

[Prokorov]

thoughts tonite:

-Impressed by russells response after drilling 4 straight threes. most young guys like a devin booker would be in chuck mode all night after that start. he trusted the system and just kept executing the offense, playing team ball. lots of maturity and unselgishness there

-Carroll, literally, took the win from the magics hands. i know we lost, but that was a big boy play in a huge moment. thats what you get from carroll. toughness and key plays in key situations. heart of this team right now.

-Levert played better. but a bit too much over dribbling. but like how aggressive he was. he needs to be better defensively against screens. he got lost way too often.

-Crabbe was off. which is whatever shooters have off nights. but he needs to do more then shoot jumpers. and the staff needs to encourage/show patience with him when he tries to create his own offense.

Early 4th we had dinwiddie, crabbe, harris, acy, Booker. thats a lineup where you need crabbe to score. not just be window dressing or a floor spacers.

-Allen looked great. you can see that tyson chandler-eque effort. His D on vucevic was great but his hard picks and straight line rolls were very encouraging. he needs to be confident he can catch a lob on every roll. that would add a huge dimension to our offinse... especially since wings cant help off our shooters.

bench didnt give us much. although on the road thats not uncommon.

Prok / just a couple of points. I'm feeling curmudgeonly this morning because of loss. I agree with most of your points

Bench wasn't as effective in second half, but in first half they took a deficit of 3 points and turned it around to a 6 point lead.

DLo had an okay to good game overall but I would not say he avoided being Devin Booker.

After starting 4-5 (FG-FGA), he was 5-19 for remainder of night. He took five or six more shots last night (24 FGA) than Devin Booker's per game average (18.3 FGA/game) last year.

Edit - he averaged 12.9 FGA/game over his two years with Lakers.

I see what you are saying but most of those shots came in the second half when no one could finish and he were starved for offense. He went 4-4 from deep and didnt really shoot much after that in the first half. he didnt even give you a heat check after the 4 threes

booker might have had 24 FGA by halftime

[Prokorov]

We were consistently down in the Pacers game so I take that as a L. But this game was a winnable game. One Crabbe 3 would've done it I think.

Also, Dlo is Hardenesque in terms of how easy his shot looks and how easy he puts up points. My concern is his efficiency. 24 shots to get 29 points. And I think he looks for his own shot a little too quickly. I get that a lot of teammates, particularly Crabbe, blew a lot of open shots which makes Dlo's assist totals look low, like he's not passing. But when 7 other Nets have a higher assists number than Dlo (1 assist), that's a little worrisome.

Don't blow this out of proportion. I'm just nitpicking at what was overall a great game. Overall, Dlo is looking like the budding superstar that the Nets need.

He was passing the ball last night.

He can't hit shots or finish dunks in traffic for these guys at the same time. I counted at least 4 blown assists. I'm not sure what more else you want him to do on a night where guys aren't hitting stuff they usually make. If he doesn't stay aggressive he doesn't draw the foul that led to three clutch FTs that kept us in the game. he was also out there making sure guys didn't get down on themselves when Orlando went up.

Like I said, don't blow my comments out of proportion. Dlo was overall great. But there were several times, and this started in the 1Q, where he dribbled the ball up to the top of the key and you knew he was looking for his own shot first. Of course, he made these shots -- 4 of 6 in the 1Q. But he was 5-19 the rest of the way.

I know he was passing the ball last night. And maybe if people were making shots, Dlo would've had 5 assists -- which still isn't great for a PG. And I appreciate the fact that he was making sure guys didn't get down. I'm not questioning his leadership. I just want him, as the PG, to pass the ball a little more or set the other guys up a little more with PNR or screens or whatever. For me, and maybe me only, when your PG takes 24 shots in 30 minutes and gets only 1 assist, while 7 other Nets have 2 or more assists, it's not ideal. But this was just one game. Maybe I shouldn't look at him as a PG but rather a combo guard in the 1 slot.

Again, not a big deal. Just nitpicking since Dlo is the main star and I'm a critical dude in general. I guess I could nitpick Crabbe's terrible shooting too but not much to say there. Booker's PNR D was surprisingly bad this game.

Dlo was pass irst last night. i dont think he played a great game despite the 29 pints. but if guys hit their shots he might have had 12 assists. he passed a ton. he onyl really strayed from the offense when we were in big scoring droughts which you WANT him to do.

i thinky ou are being really unfair here. he had 4 pick and roll passes alone to allen where he either caught it or fumbled it 3 feet from the rim. 3 more to mozgov (including his only assist). then half a dozen r more plays to get wide open 3s that were missed by some of our better shooters.

im really not sure how he could have passed more.

[MrDollarBills]

yeah make no mistake about it, when the team is offensively struggling Russell damn well had better and should be expected to score. that being said, i had no issue with what he did in the 4th qtr last night, he just screwed up, which is to be expected since he's 21. his passing was not an issue at all. he's not playing like a chucker with tunnel vision.

if Allen Crabbe hits at least 2 of those open threes he got from Russell passing it to him last night we're a 3-1 team. hell had Allen finished that dunk attempt!

while 25+ shots isn't ideal, we aren't winning games if this guy isn't looking to score while the rest of the team is firing up bricks...and he can't be criticized for a lack of assists if guys don't hold up their end of the bargain once he passes. and yet he didn't lose faith in them.

[MrDollarBills]

I'd like to see DLo get more efficient. 29 minutes, cap out in the high teens or 20s for shots. 24 is a bit too many and some, to me, at the end of the game were bordering on hero ball. But I tend to find a lot of players hero balling toward the end of games (I thought that of Lin, for instance, last season in some games). But it's true DLo didn't get have another guy on the team to create his own shot and reliable in the clutch (beyond DMC perhaps). Crabbe was off.

He had no choice but to play hero ball the last few possesions. he had set up tons of teammates and they kept missing. and levert had a couple late turnovers. no one had anything going. we needed him to try and score points when everyone couldnt hit open jumpers.... he showed a ton of restraint... he hit 4 early threes and instead of trying to go for a huge night he stayed within the offense.

The assists have to go up for the whole team. Something in the dynamics last night led to less assists than there should have been for the whole team.

We simply missed open shots and turned it over under the hoop. i dont think we need to read much into it was an off night

he did his job. we failed as a team, but he did what he had to do, or at least tried to carry the load when the team was floundering on the road. that's leadership. we'll have more rough nights like this....and when he goes into I GOT ICE IN MY VEINS mode on those nights and wins the game for us like he's done twice already this season, i doubt it will be called hero ball.

[steady]

If we are so big on this year being primatily important for the young players' development --which I agree with, I don't want to see more DLo hero ball whenever we are foundering.

Its not good for the development of either DLo or the other players.

And . . . some of the players - Crabbe notably - didn't shoot well but others were fine. RHJ 6-8, DMC 5-11, Booker (3-8). He didn't have to do it alone

Russell and Crabbe missed by far the most shots last night : Russell at 15 - Crabbe missed 9

[bws94]

I'm not so into the ice in my veins mode if it implies DLo has to take the shots in that mode. I like the idea of him being able to find the best shot in key situations, including his own if need be. An alley-oops pass could be devastating to teams at times in the game, for instance. Sometimes the best thing to do is create the threat of the clutch shot, and find a hot hand or unexpected player in a place to make a big shot. Sometimes the big play will be an out of bounds pass to a cutter. In game 3 DLo drew attention due to his threat to score, but had Crabbe red hot and making shots. But DLo didn't have a hot hand, nor did he have a second facilitator or facilitator/scorer to go to. I still think that guy to be developed is CLV.

That said, he's very very young and is doing great. I'm just mentioning the stuff he needs to consider in this role at this time on the team.

[Yit]

Tracking Players Performance, GCP against Magic 24 Oct 2017

RHJ - 41 (++)
DAR - 39 (+)
DMC - 30 (+)
CLV - 29 (=)
Mozgov - 27 (=)
Booker - 13 (=)
Dinwiddie - 12 (=)
Acy - 11 (=)
Harris - 8 (-)
Allen - 6 (-)
Crabbe - 6 (-)

We weren't that bad - somehow A.Gordon played lights out (his GCP was in the range of 98 - which is ridiculously high) - although we would expect Crabbe and Harris not to stay below GCP of 10.