GT: Suns (2-4) @ Nets (3-4) - Tues, Oct 31, 7:30pm EST YES

[Prokorov]

when will the Brooklyn Nets be allowed to win?

i woldnt put any winning expectations on them until around 2020 or 2021 this is a 5 year process

got to be kidding me lol....

im not asking for a contender, I'm asking for a competitive team that can win games. We're getting a competitive one, winning is not there yet.

Besides, all that development, who guarantees who we will develop sticks by 2020? we may lose players, which is normal, and if so, we start again with the rebuilding right?

Well that has been why ive criticized marks for the crabbe deal and some other moves. because he has potentially painted us into a corner were we may have to let some of these guys walk. but thats for another thread.

as far as 2020. yes. i dont care if we dont win a nother game between now and then

[MrDollarBills]

The Suns lost 40 plus points to begin their season, got their head coach fired and is now playing much better. What did the new coach do?

Bench their prized rookie, who by the way has more talent in his pinkie than any of our prized young guy.

Has that hindered his development? Nope. He flashed coming off the bench. Has that hindered his team winning? Nope, it's actually improved it.

Cutting minutes, changing roles, changing rotations for young players doesn't mean you're giving up on them. You can develop players AND win at the same time.

Pop was hard on Manu and Tony as young players. He benched them, he pulled them, and played lesser talents that were playing well at the time over them.

Being a draft pick should not give you free reign to do whatever you want, including playing lazy defense.

Pop always talks about being selfless, of team vs individuals. By playing guys that aren't playing well or doing things the wrong way due to their contract/draft status, you are prioritizing the individual vs the team.

Yes, they made a run. Yes they played with grit. But we saw that again Denver too. The bench went ape **** hustled their balls out and attacked to bring us back into the game. But by then we were so far behind that it's difficult to sustain because we've spent so much energy just fighting back.

We did the same this game. At some point, we can't continuously putting ourselves into these huge holes.

It's not time to panic yet and it's not time to firesale what little talent we have. But the coaching staffs needs to start figuring things out and make some adjustments because teams are starting to/has figured out this teams weakness and they will keep on hammering that until we address it.

I think ill go with Kennys approach given his track record in years of developing players vs. what some interim coach on the suns has done in 4 games.

yep. RHJ is walking proof that there is a method to Kenny's madness. this guy looks like he could become an all star talent if he continues to trend upward.

[MrDollarBills]

Winning and development are not mutually exclusive.... so why is that an issue?

how are RHJ, Dinwiddie, Levert and anyone else you want to name, development be tarnished or setback in the name of a win? Did I say anything about bringing in other players? My direct disappointment is in Kenny and his coaching in games.
.

because in order to win games kenny would need to make coaching decisions that are the opposite of what he has done to develop those players (i.e. let them play through massive struggles)

see Hollis-Jefferson, Rondae.

[MGrand15]

The Suns lost 40 plus points to begin their season, got their head coach fired and is now playing much better. What did the new coach do?

Bench their prized rookie, who by the way has more talent in his pinkie than any of our prized young guy.

Has that hindered his development? Nope. He flashed coming off the bench. Has that hindered his team winning? Nope, it's actually improved it.

Cutting minutes, changing roles, changing rotations for young players doesn't mean you're giving up on them. You can develop players AND win at the same time.

Pop was hard on Manu and Tony as young players. He benched them, he pulled them, and played lesser talents that were playing well at the time over them.

Being a draft pick should not give you free reign to do whatever you want, including playing lazy defense.

Pop always talks about being selfless, of team vs individuals. By playing guys that aren't playing well or doing things the wrong way due to their contract/draft status, you are prioritizing the individual vs the team.

Yes, they made a run. Yes they played with grit. But we saw that again Denver too. The bench went ape **** hustled their balls out and attacked to bring us back into the game. But by then we were so far behind that it's difficult to sustain because we've spent so much energy just fighting back.

We did the same this game. At some point, we can't continuously putting ourselves into these huge holes.

It's not time to panic yet and it's not time to firesale what little talent we have. But the coaching staffs needs to start figuring things out and make some adjustments because teams are starting to/has figured out this teams weakness and they will keep on hammering that until we address it.

I think ill go with Kennys approach given his track record in years of developing players vs. what some interim coach on the suns has done in 4 games.

yep. RHJ is walking proof that there is a method to Kenny's madness. this guy looks like he could become an all star talent if he continues to trend upward.

RHJ is actually a good example of Kenny switching up the initial plan so I don't see where the disagreement is. If I remember correctly, RHJ started off last year at SF and had full reign to shoot 3s. When he saw that wasn't working, he started coming off the bench, shifted to PF full time and was told to relentlessly attack the rim. He found a role that got him more involved, played to his strengths and he finished the year strong.

It seemed to work well. A lot better than chalking up every loss and failure as a good one because "development"

[MrDollarBills]

I think ill go with Kennys approach given his track record in years of developing players vs. what some interim coach on the suns has done in 4 games.

yep. RHJ is walking proof that there is a method to Kenny's madness. this guy looks like he could become an all star talent if he continues to trend upward.

RHJ is actually a good example of Kenny switching up the initial plan so I don't see where the disagreement is. If I remember correctly, RHJ started off last year at SF and had full reign to shoot 3s. When he saw that wasn't working, he started coming off the bench, shifted to PF full time and was told to relentlessly attack the rim. He found a role that got him more involved, played to his strengths and he finished the year strong.

It seemed to work well. A lot better than chalking up every loss and failure as a good one because "development"

Yeah. Kenny experiments with stuff, when it's not working he adjusts. That's why I don't see any point in the early panic.

[SpeedyG]

The Suns lost 40 plus points to begin their season, got their head coach fired and is now playing much better. What did the new coach do?

Bench their prized rookie, who by the way has more talent in his pinkie than any of our prized young guy.

Has that hindered his development? Nope. He flashed coming off the bench. Has that hindered his team winning? Nope, it's actually improved it.

Cutting minutes, changing roles, changing rotations for young players doesn't mean you're giving up on them. You can develop players AND win at the same time.

Pop was hard on Manu and Tony as young players. He benched them, he pulled them, and played lesser talents that were playing well at the time over them.

Being a draft pick should not give you free reign to do whatever you want, including playing lazy defense.

Pop always talks about being selfless, of team vs individuals. By playing guys that aren't playing well or doing things the wrong way due to their contract/draft status, you are prioritizing the individual vs the team.

Yes, they made a run. Yes they played with grit. But we saw that again Denver too. The bench went ape **** hustled their balls out and attacked to bring us back into the game. But by then we were so far behind that it's difficult to sustain because we've spent so much energy just fighting back.

We did the same this game. At some point, we can't continuously putting ourselves into these huge holes.

It's not time to panic yet and it's not time to firesale what little talent we have. But the coaching staffs needs to start figuring things out and make some adjustments because teams are starting to/has figured out this teams weakness and they will keep on hammering that until we address it.

I think ill go with Kennys approach given his track record in years of developing players vs. what some interim coach on the suns has done in 4 games.

Ridiculous. "Some interim coach"? Dude, Triano's coached in this league and has ACTUALLY had success.

[bws94]

Our starting wings shooting 20% from 3, 14% from 3 and a combined 2-13 from three, -19 should be held accountable at this point. This isn’t going to change overnight.

So, I’d suggest some lineup changes for LeVert and Crabbe right now. Both are disappointing and their D isn’t consistently good enough to mask the poor shooting which is how we develop these holes. Our wings can’t score but our bigs give up everything inside, then we turn it over.

Dinwiddie-Dlo-DMC-RHJ-Allen

bench: Levert-Crabbe-Harris-Acy-Zeller or Booker

Stagger Dlo/Din like we did with Lin/Dlo and finish the game with both.

Just don't know if that bench can hold together with LeVert at point. Otherwise, fine. Allen to start, why not?

[SpeedyG]

The Suns lost 40 plus points to begin their season, got their head coach fired and is now playing much better. What did the new coach do?

Bench their prized rookie, who by the way has more talent in his pinkie than any of our prized young guy.

Has that hindered his development? Nope. He flashed coming off the bench. Has that hindered his team winning? Nope, it's actually improved it.

Cutting minutes, changing roles, changing rotations for young players doesn't mean you're giving up on them. You can develop players AND win at the same time.

Pop was hard on Manu and Tony as young players. He benched them, he pulled them, and played lesser talents that were playing well at the time over them.

Being a draft pick should not give you free reign to do whatever you want, including playing lazy defense.

Pop always talks about being selfless, of team vs individuals. By playing guys that aren't playing well or doing things the wrong way due to their contract/draft status, you are prioritizing the individual vs the team.

Yes, they made a run. Yes they played with grit. But we saw that again Denver too. The bench went ape **** hustled their balls out and attacked to bring us back into the game. But by then we were so far behind that it's difficult to sustain because we've spent so much energy just fighting back.

We did the same this game. At some point, we can't continuously putting ourselves into these huge holes.

It's not time to panic yet and it's not time to firesale what little talent we have. But the coaching staffs needs to start figuring things out and make some adjustments because teams are starting to/has figured out this teams weakness and they will keep on hammering that until we address it.

I think ill go with Kennys approach given his track record in years of developing players vs. what some interim coach on the suns has done in 4 games.

yep. RHJ is walking proof that there is a method to Kenny's madness. this guy looks like he could become an all star talent if he continues to trend upward.

If anything, RHJ is proof of an adjustment that Kenny made to fit him into what we needed to do. That Kenny eventually had him play PF was an adjustment to align what RHJ can do to the betterment of the team. He didn't just keep sticking him at SF and say "ok here's an unlimited minutes at SF, go knock yourself out and we go where we go". He also didn't start every single game, despite having a much worse roster around him last season.

You guys are severely mistaken in assuming that giving these young guys minutes automatically equates to improvement.

This roster is young and none of these guys are guaranteed All-Stars much less starters that they have carte blanche. A couple of years ago, Skil was a pet project. The "model" of Markinson's player development mantra. He's barely seeing the court now. There's enough talent in this team now for a true open competition for most of the spots.

[SpeedyG]

Our starting wings shooting 20% from 3, 14% from 3 and a combined 2-13 from three, -19 should be held accountable at this point. This isn’t going to change overnight.

So, I’d suggest some lineup changes for LeVert and Crabbe right now. Both are disappointing and their D isn’t consistently good enough to mask the poor shooting which is how we develop these holes. Our wings can’t score but our bigs give up everything inside, then we turn it over.

Dinwiddie-Dlo-DMC-RHJ-Allen

bench: Levert-Crabbe-Harris-Acy-Zeller or Booker

Stagger Dlo/Din like we did with Lin/Dlo and finish the game with both.

Just don't know if that bench can hold together with LeVert at point. Otherwise, fine. Allen to start, why not?

We'll need to stagger minutes with Din and Dlo. I agree, I don't think CLV/Crabbe/Harris has enough ball handling for that bench unit to function well offensively.

Also, I don't think Allen is ready to be starting.

[steady]

Kenny Atkinson on how Nets' offense has been out of rhythm since the Knicks game;

“I think we get down. There’s two things. I think we get down when we miss shots and when we don’t move the ball. It effects our defense, it effects our spirit. Again, I was just surprised because we haven’t done it all year – settling for a lot of contested shots. It was, again, surprising.”

[MrDollarBills]

I think ill go with Kennys approach given his track record in years of developing players vs. what some interim coach on the suns has done in 4 games.

yep. RHJ is walking proof that there is a method to Kenny's madness. this guy looks like he could become an all star talent if he continues to trend upward.

If anything, RHJ is proof of an adjustment that Kenny made to fit him into what we needed to do. That Kenny eventually had him play PF was an adjustment to align what RHJ can do to the betterment of the team. He didn't just keep sticking him at SF and say "ok here's an unlimited minutes at SF, go knock yourself out and we go where we go". He also didn't start every single game, despite having a much worse roster around him last season.

You guys are severely mistaken in assuming that giving these young guys minutes automatically equates to improvement.

This roster is young and none of these guys are guaranteed All-Stars much less starters that they have carte blanche. A couple of years ago, Skil was a pet project. The "model" of Markinson's player development mantra. He's barely seeing the court now. There's enough talent in this team now for a true open competition for most of the spots.

Giving them minutes, going over film, correcting behaviors/making adjustments definitely does equate to improvement. Everything that Hollis-Jefferson is doing right is a direct result of this.

[CalamityX12]

Winning and development are not mutually exclusive.... so why is that an issue?

how are RHJ, Dinwiddie, Levert and anyone else you want to name, development be tarnished or setback in the name of a win? Did I say anything about bringing in other players? My direct disappointment is in Kenny and his coaching in games.
.

because in order to win games kenny would need to make coaching decisions that are the opposite of what he has done to develop those players (i.e. let them play through massive struggles)

Is Kenny then better suited as a developmental coach on the staff, like an assitant than being a HC?

When does Kenny improve himself?

I believe I can safely say that at least 2 out of the last 3 losses can be attributed to faulty in game coaching. That doesn't hinder developing.

Also a losing culture could eventually turn negative too... it's not all disney out there lol

[MrDollarBills]

Winning and development are not mutually exclusive.... so why is that an issue?

how are RHJ, Dinwiddie, Levert and anyone else you want to name, development be tarnished or setback in the name of a win? Did I say anything about bringing in other players? My direct disappointment is in Kenny and his coaching in games.
.

because in order to win games kenny would need to make coaching decisions that are the opposite of what he has done to develop those players (i.e. let them play through massive struggles)

Is Kenny then better suited as a developmental coach on the staff, like an assitant than being a HC?

When does Kenny improve himself?

I believe I can safely say that at least 2 out of the last 3 losses can be attributed to faulty in game coaching. That doesn't hinder developing.

Also a losing culture could eventually turn negative too... it's not all disney out there lol

I can pin Kenny's substitution strategy in the last game as one factor in our loss.

I cannot attribute the following things to Kenny when it comes to our losses:

1) zero energy across the board from the team in the Knicks loss.
2) Mozgov's god awful defense and lack of physicality versus the Knicks, Nuggets, and Suns. His effort has been poor.
3) Allen Crabbe and Caris LeVert firing up bricks.
4) Russell going off the rails for the first time as a Net versus the Nuggets

It's way too early into this rebuild to attempt to nail this guy to a cross when the players aren't executing things that they should be executing.

[steady]

Winning and development are not mutually exclusive.... so why is that an issue?

how are RHJ, Dinwiddie, Levert and anyone else you want to name, development be tarnished or setback in the name of a win? Did I say anything about bringing in other players? My direct disappointment is in Kenny and his coaching in games.
.

because in order to win games kenny would need to make coaching decisions that are the opposite of what he has done to develop those players (i.e. let them play through massive struggles)

Is Kenny then better suited as a developmental coach on the staff, like an assitant than being a HC?

When does Kenny improve himself?

I believe I can safely say that at least 2 out of the last 3 losses can be attributed to faulty in game coaching. That doesn't hinder developing.

Also a losing culture could eventually turn negative too... it's not all disney out there lol

I would agree that two out of last three games were winnable. But i don't blame Kenny for these losses.

[CalamityX12]

because in order to win games kenny would need to make coaching decisions that are the opposite of what he has done to develop those players (i.e. let them play through massive struggles)

Is Kenny then better suited as a developmental coach on the staff, like an assitant than being a HC?

When does Kenny improve himself?

I believe I can safely say that at least 2 out of the last 3 losses can be attributed to faulty in game coaching. That doesn't hinder developing.

Also a losing culture could eventually turn negative too... it's not all disney out there lol

I can pin Kenny's substitution strategy in the last game as one factor in our loss.

I cannot attribute the following things to Kenny when it comes to our losses:

1) zero energy across the board from the team in the Knicks loss.
2) Mozgov's god awful defense and lack of physicality versus the Knicks, Nuggets, and Suns. His effort has been poor.
3) Allen Crabbe and Caris LeVert firing up bricks.
4) Russell going off the rails for the first time as a Net versus the Nuggets

It's way too early into this rebuild to attempt to nail this guy to a cross when the players aren't executing things that they should be executing.

not going for the nails or cross with Kenny but to my opinion, here, I feel he goes unscathed and many would defend his toilet business leaves roses....

i mean, small ball lineups vs bigs got to work by game 75 right?

[MrDollarBills]

The small ball criticism is warranted. I like it in stretches...not against guys that can do serious damage inside though.

[SpeedyG]

I'm not really sure how we can pin small ball on him. It's not like we have all pro waiting to play the 4 or the 5. Mozgov has not done much other than to set good screens. Booker relies on effort and energy but his decision making makes you cringe at times. Allen is so raw he shames even Cromartie. Zeller? Jacob?

Whether it's on Kenny or Sean, this is the roster they decided to build. They are going to have to get. very creative, or pray that Allen's development goes into hyper mode

[steady]

I am hearing things out in world like we will know after this road trip what we have with the Nets. And I'm like, no. Realistically we won't know what we have with this young team that has a lot of new players until at least early to mid December.

That's the usual timeline for a team like this. Lets give Atkinson amd players a chance to figure out how they best play together.

Also, I'm hearing things like the Nets are playing slower now because Atkinson is adjusting the motion offense to cater to DLos strengths. My guess is, that is not the case and the players or just simply reverting to old habits when they get in hard situations.