GT: Trail Blazers (10-8) @ Brooklyn (6-11) - Friday, Nov 24, 12:00 PM YES

[LKIRNets]

Lin is part of the plan next year per Marks. We'll see. That's next year. The Nets benefit if he is part of the transition IMO.

The talk of two facilitators happened long before DRuss became available. Names like Teodosic and Goerge Hill were considered. Nets got lucky DRuss became available.

You have to develop a full team. Allen is hugely important but the Nets still may not have an answer for 2 big men tandems like Embiid/Simmons and Cousins/AD and even Porzingis/Kander. CLV will be needed for penetration and penetration/dishing role on the team. Dinwiddie will enhance his already solid game. RHJ as well. The thing is to make sure each guy is a part of a better whole. They're doing well in that regard. But this team also needs veteran leadership for years to come.

There's 1 year of him being part of the transition left.

Correct. We got lucky that Russell became available.

No one is saying not to. Correct. Which is why Russell's development as a PG is the building block to this. You think Lin is going to become that veteran leadership? Sean Marks is a smart man, he's now noticing that Lin could be the next Derrick Rose health wise. major hamstring and major knee issues at 27. They started when he was a Knick being burned out and avoiding surgery until his legs gave out.

I'm not making this a D'Angelo vs Everybody thing.

It's about what the team needs to have the best type of future. I love LeVert, love DinWiddie, but I'm smart enough to know they aren't nor may never be allstars. They are good complimentary players, D'Angelo's upside is not a complimentary player. He's a potential franchise.


There is a system and a culture building here. The next big free agent might be defensive center Julius Randle. Who you think is recruiting him to come to Brooklyn next year?

BTW I'm not saying placate to one guy. I'm saying this is where we're at. After 18 games we have 6 wins. 4 came w/ Russell. So this team w/o Russell we have 2 wins. This is the reality where we are. There is not going to be any playoff runs, they are developing the players to improve into season 3 of the rebuild. D'Angelo Russell is in season 1 of his real rookie development year. Season 1 for him has so far been 12 games. This is the reality of it.

[bws94]

Actually, you are making this kind of a DLo vs. everybody in a way. I said Lin for one more year. No more talk of that is needed. It's obvious you aren't high on him but I am for his leadership in the transition. He had a normal knee injury in 2012, but since then played in 70 or more games per season. The season after he had that injury with the Knicks, he started and played all 82 games. As I said before, he was rock solid before putting on a Nets uniform and we can only wish him well going forward. But whatever happens, the young team needs veterans too.

You seem locked into DLo as PG. He may or may not be a "PG" going forward. They may decide he works best in a two-facilitator option in more of a scoring/distributor and someone else is the distributor/scorer. We don't know yet. But he'll facilitate in either scenario. Another PG may end up coming to the Nets down the road as well. Things will work out as they do but for now, he needs to rest, rehab, get back with the team and do his thing and we'll know more as the year progresses. We miss his scoring, especially in the clutch as well as his passing skills.

[MrDollarBills]

I hate having to repeat this phrase, but it's not a pissing contest peeps, Russell is our go to guy, Dinwiddie is better at being a distributor. Both players fill a need, and we need both to win. Some of these losses could have been wins if we had Russell out there to take over late.

Why it always turns into a knife fight regarding D'Angelo Russell versus ______, I have no clue

The way I see it is we're making Allen Crabbe a bench guy. And you can't tell me Din or Lin produces more than his upside. At the end of the day it's about doing the most w/ your depth. I don't get how people don't realize that that Din in this system is better for the change of pace 2nd unit.

It's not saying he's not a starting PG, it's that this is the best use for him. Commanding and distributing that bench. The injured D'Angelo returns w/ Allen Crabbe on, they can do damage. The future is centered on these 2 learning the system, the season isn't about making the playoffs, so why are you putting Russell to be an off ball guy?

I like Russell better as a scorer, but I don't think he shouldn't play PG either. The plan was originally to have Russell play SG next to Lin and then shift to PG when Lin is off the floor. I don't really see why we still can't do that with Dinwiddie.

Crabbe could eventually shift to SF as Carroll isn't a future building block

[steady]

true.

Absolutely not, in fact it'd keep him healthy. Brodie signed for 3 years. How many games has he played?

I wouldn't. B/c you're regressing him into the mindset of shoot when you're open. That's not what this year is about. It's a development year. This is about him becoming a smarter PG. DinWiddie went through this last year too. Peeps were livid about Marks choosing him over Yogi. Now look at him. Russell is 21. I can't stress this enough. He's 21. Ideally he should still be in college. There's a reason the majority of these players don't develop until 23, 24. Ex. Indiana is learning that w/ Oladipo. Schroder in ATL, John Wall. It takes time.

One thing Russell has over all these players, is game on the line, he has the Jordan trait. He will finish you.

I was thinking more of the term "SG" for Russell in like how James Harden does it. he is a scorer, but he still makes the correct play when its there.

actually, maybe we should do away with the labels. the ideal end result is that Russell becomes a go to scorer that facilitates from qtrs 1-3 that breaks the opponents down in the 4th.

my thing regarding Russell is just that I want the Nets to put him into the best position to be great. i don't think he's a natural PG. i think he's moreso like Harden, Wade, or imo a shorter version of Paul Pierce.

I don't think there is a natural PG in the NBA anymore. I think your PG has to score, b/c the post game in the NBA has been taken away. It all started w/ the D'Antoni system and then the Warriors used it. If you don't have an Porzingis, Embiid, an Okafor or a Towns, your PG better put 15+ PPG. Or you're a lotto team.

Kobe could play PG, and sometimes did for Lakers, but that was not his natural role. Harden was a brilliant PG last year. But I don't think anyone would say either of their talents were wasted the years they played at SG, and that they should have been PGs .

Russell is a natural scorer - he is a brilliant passer too, but his first instinct is to score. Imo

I am ok with trying Russell at PG some more, but I think it is at least a legitimate question whether Russell would be better at the 2.

[Prokorov]

Russell has been better this year so far and it isnt really an argument. Russell is basically respondible for 5 of our 6 wins and we have seen the last 4 games what happens close and late when you dont have somone clutch to get the ball too.

I love dinwidde and agree he should start. when DLO is back slide him to the 2 and bring crabbe off the bench... you dont lose any defense in that scenario and get dinwiddie/russell on the floor together

Really? Russell only played in 4 of the wins. Vs. Magic, Hawks, Suns, & Blazers. I think you have to weigh the fact that these recent L's have been to the Cavs, Warriors, & Celtics a little. I like both but with Dinwiddie hitting 3's like this and not turning the ball over there's no way the gap is "not even an argument". Like, if Dinwiddie hits that 3 yesterday....

i dont think facing any of those teams matters... i mean we lost to the blazers in basically the exact scenario as last time only last time we had russell to make super clutch shots.

and yea, its not an argument, russell has been much better. nothing wrong with that, he should be better with dinwiddie since he is a better player. dinwidde has been playing great.

[Prokorov]

The way I see it is we're making Allen Crabbe a bench guy. And you can't tell me Din or Lin produces more than his upside. At the end of the day it's about doing the most w/ your depth. I don't get how people don't realize that that Din in this system is better for the change of pace 2nd unit.

Dinwiddie is a better option then crabbe. gives us another ball handler and he shoots it just as well from three for the most part. you also dont have both russell and crabbe starting so you dont have 2 subpar defenders.

It's not saying he's not a starting PG, it's that this is the best use for him. Commanding and distributing that bench. The injured D'Angelo returns w/ Allen Crabbe on, they can do damage. The future is centered on these 2 learning the system, the season isn't about making the playoffs, so why are you putting Russell to be an off ball guy?

there is no off ball. both gaurds handled it in kennys offense.

[bws94]

Russell has been better this year so far and it isnt really an argument. Russell is basically respondible for 5 of our 6 wins and we have seen the last 4 games what happens close and late when you dont have somone clutch to get the ball too.

I love dinwidde and agree he should start. when DLO is back slide him to the 2 and bring crabbe off the bench... you dont lose any defense in that scenario and get dinwiddie/russell on the floor together

Really? Russell only played in 4 of the wins. Vs. Magic, Hawks, Suns, & Blazers. I think you have to weigh the fact that these recent L's have been to the Cavs, Warriors, & Celtics a little. I like both but with Dinwiddie hitting 3's like this and not turning the ball over there's no way the gap is "not even an argument". Like, if Dinwiddie hits that 3 yesterday....

i dont think facing any of those teams matters... i mean we lost to the blazers in basically the exact scenario as last time only last time we had russell to make super clutch shots.

and yea, its not an argument, russell has been much better. nothing wrong with that, he should be better with dinwiddie since he is a better player. dinwidde has been playing great.

Prok, how much did McCollum and Lillard score in the loss compared to how much they scored in the win? I think that was the difference.

I think Dinwiddie has played great. Different from DRuss because they have different strengths. But Dinwiddie's production has been impressive.

[Prokorov]

Really? Russell only played in 4 of the wins. Vs. Magic, Hawks, Suns, & Blazers. I think you have to weigh the fact that these recent L's have been to the Cavs, Warriors, & Celtics a little. I like both but with Dinwiddie hitting 3's like this and not turning the ball over there's no way the gap is "not even an argument". Like, if Dinwiddie hits that 3 yesterday....

i dont think facing any of those teams matters... i mean we lost to the blazers in basically the exact scenario as last time only last time we had russell to make super clutch shots.

and yea, its not an argument, russell has been much better. nothing wrong with that, he should be better with dinwiddie since he is a better player. dinwidde has been playing great.

Prok, how much did McCollum and Lillard score in the loss compared to how much they scored in the win? I think that was the difference.

I think Dinwiddie has played great. Different from DRuss because they have different strengths. But Dinwiddie's production has been impressive.

both games were close games down the stretch. this past one blazes went on an 8-0 run and took the lead and we had no one get buckets. dinwiddie and allen missed a bunch of shots.

the first game DLO got us late iso buckets. that was the difference IMO

[LKIRNets]

Dinwiddie is a better option then crabbe. gives us another ball handler and he shoots it just as well from three for the most part. you also dont have both russell and crabbe starting so you dont have 2 subpar defenders.

Russell and Crabbe are actually better defenders than Dinwiddie. Teams are killing Dinwiddie on the screen n' roll. We play a "shell defense" scheme that Atkinson had team DR and Atlanta play. The next Nets game watch how Dinwiddie reacts to the screen n' roll and how it constantly gets us into trouble.

there is no off ball. both gaurds handled it in kennys offense.

I understand that. But in motion offense, this is designed to find the man off a double screen. A lot of the offensive slumps has to do w/ guards hanging at the 3 point line or bigs setting mistimed screens. I wish I could show you how bad Mozgov was at this and how both him and Levert at the beginning of the season were just negatives, the defense wouldn't respect them, they cheated off them and clogged the passing lane. D'Angelo moving to SG is not a developmental move. You're having him learn a completely different set in the offense. Which goes against Coach Atkinson's principles on offense. "Do your job" Those are Kenny's principles.

[LKIRNets]

both games were close games down the stretch. this past one blazes went on an 8-0 run and took the lead and we had no one get buckets. dinwiddie and allen missed a bunch of shots.

the first game DLO got us late iso buckets. that was the difference IMO

I hate to chime in here. But we went into Portland and held their backcourt to 41% shooting. A big part of that defense was Allen Crabbe on McCollum and D'Angelo Russell on Lillard not getting beat on screen n' rolls and negating clean catches in the shell defense scheme. When that same backcourt came into Brooklyn the combo of DinWiddie & Crabbe allowed that same backcourt to shoot 53%. That's a big difference. And the sore thumb that sticks out here is Dinwiddie's screen n' roll defense.

When Nurkic was going the MIG couldn't cover Lillard. They'd end up switching and getting roasted on the perimeter. This MIG was Zeller, then later on Booker.

[Prokorov]

both games were close games down the stretch. this past one blazes went on an 8-0 run and took the lead and we had no one get buckets. dinwiddie and allen missed a bunch of shots.

the first game DLO got us late iso buckets. that was the difference IMO

I hate to chime in here. But we went into Portland and held their backcourt to 41% shooting. A big part of that defense was Allen Crabbe on McCollum and D'Angelo Russell on Lillard not getting beat on screen n' rolls and negating clean catches in the shell defense scheme. When that same backcourt came into Brooklyn the combo of DinWiddie & Crabbe allowed that same backcourt to shoot 53%. That's a big difference. And the sore thumb that sticks out here is Dinwiddie's screen n' roll defense.

When Nurkic was going the MIG couldn't cover Lillard. They'd end up switching and getting roasted on the perimeter. This MIG was Zeller, then later on Booker.

that is all 100% irrelevant. both games came down to us scoring late. we couldnt do it without russell. with russel he hit clutch shot after clutch shot willing us to victory. without him we had noe one and had to hope threes fell. harris hit some big ones, dinwiddie couldnt hit the big shots. no slight on him, he is a role guy who playe very well

[LKIRNets]

both games were close games down the stretch. this past one blazes went on an 8-0 run and took the lead and we had no one get buckets. dinwiddie and allen missed a bunch of shots.

the first game DLO got us late iso buckets. that was the difference IMO

I hate to chime in here. But we went into Portland and held their backcourt to 41% shooting. A big part of that defense was Allen Crabbe on McCollum and D'Angelo Russell on Lillard not getting beat on screen n' rolls and negating clean catches in the shell defense scheme. When that same backcourt came into Brooklyn the combo of DinWiddie & Crabbe allowed that same backcourt to shoot 53%. That's a big difference. And the sore thumb that sticks out here is Dinwiddie's screen n' roll defense.

When Nurkic was going the MIG couldn't cover Lillard. They'd end up switching and getting roasted on the perimeter. This MIG was Zeller, then later on Booker.

that is all 100% irrelevant. both games came down to us scoring late. we couldnt do it without russell. with russel he hit clutch shot after clutch shot willing us to victory. without him we had noe one and had to hope threes fell. harris hit some big ones, dinwiddie couldnt hit the big shots. no slight on him, he is a role guy who playe very well

How is playing better defense on the screen n' roll irrelevant? Correct both games came down to final possessions. Had we'd play better defense in Brooklyn, we blow them out. But we didn't. Dinwiddie's shot selection doesn't really worry me, his screen n' roll defense does.

[Prokorov]

How is playing better defense on the screen n' roll irrelevant? Correct both games came down to final possessions. Had we'd play better defense in Brooklyn, we blow them out. But we didn't. Dinwiddie's shot selection doesn't really worry me, his screen n' roll defense does.

its irrelvant because like you said, both games came down to the final possession. when we had dlo we had a guy to make that shot. without him we didint. thats why we won the first and lost the second.

our entire team outide RHJ, Levert, whitehead, and maybe carrolle is trash. having DLO defensively wasnt the issue. missing his super clutch late play was the issue.

i agree dinwiddies pick and roll D isnt good. portland rarely scored off of pick and rolls dinwiddie was involved in

[LKIRNets]

its irrelvant because like you said, both games came down to the final possession. when we had dlo we had a guy to make that shot. without him we didint. thats why we won the first and lost the second.

our entire team outide RHJ, Levert, whitehead, and maybe carrolle is trash. having DLO defensively wasnt the issue. missing his super clutch late play was the issue.

i agree dinwiddies pick and roll D isnt good. portland rarely scored off of pick and rolls dinwiddie was involved in

Correct, but we scored over 120 points. That should have been enough.

Correct. Defensively DLo held Lillard to 1 of 5 from the 3 and 19 pts. for the game. 4 out of those 19pts. came at the FT line.

Lillard had 30+ pts by the end of the half. Finished w/ 34. he finished 4 of 6 from 3. We didn't run him off the line. Atkinson's defense is built to do that.

Russell's clutch is besides the point here, Prok. 125 pts, we allowed 127. Their backcourt was 5 for 10 from 3. That's 50%.

i agree dinwiddies pick and roll D isnt good. portland rarely scored off of pick and rolls dinwiddie was involved in

If you noticed Kenny moved Din off him and put Crabbe on him b/c of how Din was getting beat on the screen n' rolls. Crabbe was getting mismatched w/ a quick foot Lillard and the switch off after that was the MIG (Zeller) having to leave Nurkic.

[Prokorov]

its irrelvant because like you said, both games came down to the final possession. when we had dlo we had a guy to make that shot. without him we didint. thats why we won the first and lost the second.

our entire team outide RHJ, Levert, whitehead, and maybe carrolle is trash. having DLO defensively wasnt the issue. missing his super clutch late play was the issue.

i agree dinwiddies pick and roll D isnt good. portland rarely scored off of pick and rolls dinwiddie was involved in

Correct, but we scored over 120 points. That should have been enough.

Correct. Defensively DLo held Lillard to 1 of 5 from the 3 and 19 pts. for the game. 4 out of those 19pts. came at the FT line.

Lillard had 30+ pts by the end of the half. Finished w/ 34. he finished 4 of 6 from 3. We didn't run him off the line. Atkinson's defense is built to do that.

Russell's clutch is besides the point here, Prok. 125 pts, we allowed 127. Their backcourt was 5 for 10 from 3. That's 50%.

i agree dinwiddies pick and roll D isnt good. portland rarely scored off of pick and rolls dinwiddie was involved in

If you noticed Kenny moved Din off him and put Crabbe on him b/c of how Din was getting beat on the screen n' rolls. Crabbe was getting mismatched w/ a quick foot Lillard and the switch off after that was the MIG (Zeller) having to leave Nurkic.

it doesnt matter how many points we gave up. 100% irrelevant

we had a chance to win in the final minute and had no one to get those big shots. when we had russell, he hit those shots and got us the win.

[LKIRNets]

it doesnt matter how many points we gave up. 100% irrelevant

we had a chance to win in the final minute and had no one to get those big shots. when we had russell, he hit those shots and got us the win.

It does Prok.

[Prokorov]

it doesnt matter how many points we gave up. 100% irrelevant

we had a chance to win in the final minute and had no one to get those big shots. when we had russell, he hit those shots and got us the win.

It does Prok.

it doesnt. game was close late. we didint have the clutch russell to match them shot for shot. thats why we lost. not defense

[LKIRNets]

it doesnt matter how many points we gave up. 100% irrelevant

we had a chance to win in the final minute and had no one to get those big shots. when we had russell, he hit those shots and got us the win.

It does Prok.

it doesnt. game was close late. we didint have the clutch russell to match them shot for shot. thats why we lost. not defense

we didn't defend well enough to prevent that situation. It wasn't needed if we had defended well.