GT: Nets @ Hornets 2/23/19 7:00pm EST (Critical Game)

[NetsJets]

Starting 5

C-Allen
PF-Randle
SF-Harris
SG-LeVert
PG-Russell

As mentioned ad nasuem.... Randle is not a PF in our system. he doesnt fit the mold

Bench

C- Davis
PF- RHJ/Graham
SF- Crabbe/Rodi
SG- Carroll
PG- Dinwiddie

Carroll isnt a SG here. he would be the Sf/PF (interchangeable on our team). Nets want a ball handler combo gaurd with PG skills to play SG. so you would see levet or russell playing alot with the second unit staggered or napier back or someone similar to napier.

IF we spend 20+ million on a PF, then RHJ would not be back.

He’s our back up 2 guard lol what are you talking about? Yes I’m aware that he’s played the 4 at times but he’s primarily the 2 guard. Crabbe plays the 3. RHJ and Rodi play the 4.

[MGrand15]

I wouldnt be jumping for Randle but he's not Faried. He has a faceup game. He can shoot 3s. He'd be a fine fit. Being able to defend wings is a nice bonus but they don't usually do it and we don't switch much.

Kenny's roster has been made up of very below average bigs the last few years. Judging the entire philosophy based off of that is a little premature.

[Prokorov]

It’s not a sustainable formula especially when you’re getting killed on the glass by teams with size and getting pushed around in the paint.

What exactly isnt sustainable about it? we are 31-30... and thats without even having a starting level player there. We are using Traveon Graham, RHJ, and Carroll. all solid role guys. you replace graham with tobias harris and this is easily a 50 win team.

Getting pushe around and outrebounded doesnt matter... the benefit if limiting 3PA and being interchangeable on the wings is whats important. there is a reason more and more teams are going smaller especially at PF.

We have allowed 649 rebounds this year. the 10th worst in the NBA. Tornoto is the 11th worst at 648 allowed. They dont seem to be
"suffering" too much having kawhi at PF. the rockets are 12th worst at 632 allowed. they dont seem to suffering going smaller at PF with pj tucker. The warriors are 13th with 626 allowed. they dont seem to have issues overcoming it.

Modern teams know that rebounding isnt valuable enough to go bigger at PF. the analytics overwhelmingly show this out. and there is a reason the nets, a heavy analytics based team, have a quartet of PFs who are 6'7"" and smaller

no one cares if enes kanter or greg monroe or whomever poounds you inside. over 82 games your not going to lose because of that too often. look at the game AD went for 38/18. we crushed the,

[Prokorov]

I wouldnt be jumping for Randle but he's not Faried. He has a faceup game. He can shoot 3s. He'd be a fine fit. Being able to defend wings is a nice bonus but they don't usually do it and we don't switch much.

Kenny's roster has been made up of very below average bigs the last few years. Judging the entire philosophy based off of that is a little premature.

I agree Randle isnt faried... but he also isnt close to the type of guys we use at PF. They want their SF and PF to be interchangable. they would sooner use someone like Crabbe at PF then Randle. its nice when a big "can hold his own" on a ball handler defensively or "can shoot it from three" or "has a face up game"

but thats different from being able to gaurd a small for an enitre game... being able to come off screens and shoot threes not just take wide open threes or pick and pop threes. and being able to cross over your player and drive consistently on smaller guys, not just do it now and then vs bigs.

Demarre Carroll is the mold of what Kenny and Marks want at PF. not Randle. and it couldnt be more abundantly clear with how marks has stocked that position and how kenny has handle his wings and bigs.

[Prokorov]

Starting 5

C-Allen
PF-Randle
SF-Harris
SG-LeVert
PG-Russell

As mentioned ad nasuem.... Randle is not a PF in our system. he doesnt fit the mold

Bench

C- Davis
PF- RHJ/Graham
SF- Crabbe/Rodi
SG- Carroll
PG- Dinwiddie

Carroll isnt a SG here. he would be the Sf/PF (interchangeable on our team). Nets want a ball handler combo gaurd with PG skills to play SG. so you would see levet or russell playing alot with the second unit staggered or napier back or someone similar to napier.

IF we spend 20+ million on a PF, then RHJ would not be back.

He’s our back up 2 guard lol what are you talking about? Yes I’m aware that he’s played the 4 at times but he’s primarily the 2 guard. Crabbe plays the 3. RHJ and Rodi play the 4.

Carroll has played 0 minutes at SG this season.

Napier is our first gaurd off the bench. Russell moves to SG when he comes in. making Russell the SG and Harris slides to PF. Crabbe then comes in for Russell making him the SG. Carroll and RHJ come in for Harris and Graham as the SF/PF (these are interchangeable).

We have ballhandlers and wings and centers in our system. There is not traditional PG, SG, SF, PF, C...

Russell, Dinwiddie, Levert, Napier are our ballhandlers

Harris, Crabbe, Carroll, Graham, RHJ, Dudley, Rodi are our wings

Allen/Davis are our centers/bigs.

if you watch the games this becomes much more clear with how these groups of players posiiton themselves within the motion offense, pick and roll offense, and zone defense.

[NetsJets]

It’s not a sustainable formula especially when you’re getting killed on the glass by teams with size and getting pushed around in the paint.

What exactly isnt sustainable about it? we are 31-30... and thats without even having a starting level player there. We are using Traveon Graham, RHJ, and Carroll. all solid role guys. you replace graham with tobias harris and this is easily a 50 win team.

Getting pushe around and outrebounded doesnt matter... the benefit if limiting 3PA and being interchangeable on the wings is whats important. there is a reason more and more teams are going smaller especially at PF.

We have allowed 649 rebounds this year. the 10th worst in the NBA. Tornoto is the 11th worst at 648 allowed. They dont seem to be
"suffering" too much having kawhi at PF. the rockets are 12th worst at 632 allowed. they dont seem to suffering going smaller at PF with pj tucker. The warriors are 13th with 626 allowed. they dont seem to have issues overcoming it.

Modern teams know that rebounding isnt valuable enough to go bigger at PF. the analytics overwhelmingly show this out. and there is a reason the nets, a heavy analytics based team, have a quartet of PFs who are 6'7"" and smaller

no one cares if enes kanter or greg monroe or whomever poounds you inside. over 82 games your not going to lose because of that too often. look at the game AD went for 38/18. we crushed the,

The difference is the teams you named have size in their front court, Gasol and Ibaka for the Raptors, Rockets with Capela, Faried, Nene, and Tucker (whos 6’5 but plays bigger than his size) the Warriors have 6’11 Durant, Green, Cousins, and Jones, those teams have more size than us and come playoff time when possessions are shorter and every rebound is critical it’ll bite us. Counting on Allen and Davis and a bunch of 6’7-6’5 guys isn’t a sustainable formula for success. We have enough shooters already we need a big that can fit in while giving us much needed size which you wouldn’t be losing if we acquire Randle. Can spot up and shoot, gives us a much neeed post up option if/when the 3’s aren’t falling, is athletic enough to step out and guard the KD’s, Klay’s, Harden’s, Giannis’, Kawhi etc, while still being able to bang underneath against the Ibaka, Embiid, Collins, Horford etc. You’re getting the same level of perimeter defense that a RHJ gives you but with more size, and shooting and you don’t want that?

[Prokorov]

The difference is the teams you named have size in their front court, Gasol and Ibaka for the Raptors, Rockets with Capela, Faried, Nene, and Tucker (whos 6’5 but plays bigger than his size) the Warriors have 6’11 Durant, Green, Cousins, and Jones, those teams have more size than us and come playoff time when possessions are shorter and every rebound is critical it’ll bite us.

Lol... 6'5" PJ tucker is "having size" Capella players center. Nene backs him up. Nene has started 0 games at PF, They just added Faried. he has started a few games, but mostly due to injury/harden suspensino

RThe raptors have gone small all year. Ibaka has started 50 games at center for them and siakim/Kawhi the starting forwards. Gasol comes off the bench as a backup center. prior to that Valacunias was coming off the bench as a backup center.

Allen/Davis are our "Size". just like Capella/nene or Ibaka/Gasol. those guys all exlusively play center.

Counting on Allen and Davis and a bunch of 6’7-6’5 guys isn’t a sustainable formula for success.

its not? last I checked we were 31-30 and the 6th seed.

We have enough shooters already we need a big that can fit in while giving us much needed size which you wouldn’t be losing if we acquire Randle. Can spot up and shoot, gives us a much neeed post up option if/when the 3’s aren’t falling is athletic enough to step out and guard the KD’s, Klay’s, Harden’s, Giannis’, Kawhi etc, while still being able to bang underneath against the Ibaka, Embiid, Collins, Horford etc. You’re getting the same level of perimeter defense that a RHJ gives you but with more size, and shooting and you don’t want that?

1) We arent losing now, we have a winning record.
2) No, Randle is NOT the perimeter defender RHJ is, that is absurd
3) Randle's post game is irrelevant as the nets view the post touch as a bad possesion and would never post him up
4) We dont need his shooting, we have 3 guys at that spot who can already shoot the 3 and unlike randle they can doit coming off screens, running baseline to baseline

I'd love Randle as a center. I just dont want to pay my backup center 15-20 million.

I dont see any scneario where he has any value to the nets at SF/PF. Neither would marks or kenny for the dozens of reasons i listed and all the evidence that conclusively shows they dont want to be bigger at SF/PF.

What we need is a BETTER forward... an upgrade to traveon graham. someone who consistently makes teams pay instead of graham who can do it once every 4 or 5 games.

[Prokorov]

Also... lets pump the brakes on randle being some defensive jauggenaut. He is DEAD LAST in defensive RPM. worse then Kanter.



Required reading if you think Randle is a fit at PF.. especially here where we dont even have a "big forward" position

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1809673&start=20

[MrDollarBills]

Starting 5

C-Allen
PF-Randle
SF-Harris
SG-LeVert
PG-Russell

As mentioned ad nasuem.... Randle is not a PF in our system. he doesnt fit the mold

Bench

C- Davis
PF- RHJ/Graham
SF- Crabbe/Rodi
SG- Carroll
PG- Dinwiddie

Carroll isnt a SG here. he would be the Sf/PF (interchangeable on our team). Nets want a ball handler combo gaurd with PG skills to play SG. so you would see levet or russell playing alot with the second unit staggered or napier back or someone similar to napier.

IF we spend 20+ million on a PF, then RHJ would not be back.

He’s our back up 2 guard lol what are you talking about? Yes I’m aware that he’s played the 4 at times but he’s primarily the 2 guard. Crabbe plays the 3. RHJ and Rodi play the 4.

Carroll is a SF/PF.

[NetsJets]

As mentioned ad nasuem.... Randle is not a PF in our system. he doesnt fit the mold



Carroll isnt a SG here. he would be the Sf/PF (interchangeable on our team). Nets want a ball handler combo gaurd with PG skills to play SG. so you would see levet or russell playing alot with the second unit staggered or napier back or someone similar to napier.

IF we spend 20+ million on a PF, then RHJ would not be back.

He’s our back up 2 guard lol what are you talking about? Yes I’m aware that he’s played the 4 at times but he’s primarily the 2 guard. Crabbe plays the 3. RHJ and Rodi play the 4.

Carroll is a SF/PF.

So what position does Crabbe play when he’s out there? Crabbe is our 3. Of course in certain small ball lineups they’ve had Carroll at the 3/4. But he’s a 2.

[MrDollarBills]

He’s our back up 2 guard lol what are you talking about? Yes I’m aware that he’s played the 4 at times but he’s primarily the 2 guard. Crabbe plays the 3. RHJ and Rodi play the 4.

Carroll is a SF/PF.

So what position does Crabbe play when he’s out there? Crabbe is our 3. Of course in certain small ball lineups they’ve had Carroll at the 3/4. But he’s a 2.

Crabbe plays 2-3 and sometimes 4 depending on the line up.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/carrode01.html

^^Carroll is a SF/PF.

The Nets really don't adhere to traditional positions that much. Per Kenny they are classified as:

Ball handlers = Russell, Dinwiddie, LeVert, Napier

Wings: Crabble, Harris, Carroll, Kurucs, Graham

Bigs: Allen, Davis, Dudley, RHJ

[MGrand15]

Bball ref stats are pretty useless with positions. It is helpful to use the lineup data though.

There are a couple lineups where Kenny said F it and just went huge where you could argue DMC is the 2. Russell/DMC/Rodi/Dudley/Davis was one of our go-to 2nd unit lineups for a stretch.

If you consider Crabbe the 3 when he's on the floor, I could see how you'd consider DMC the 2 - but he's usually guarding the 3 so that's what I consider him.

Basically it doesn't matter. We go with 1 ball handler pretty often with LeVert and Dinwiddie out, so it doesn't really matter what you consider DMC. I don't think he plays that much 4 unless we're really injured or it's crunch time.

[NetsJets]

Carroll is a SF/PF.

So what position does Crabbe play when he’s out there? Crabbe is our 3. Of course in certain small ball lineups they’ve had Carroll at the 3/4. But he’s a 2.

Crabbe plays 2-3 and sometimes 4 depending on the line up.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/carrode01.html

^^Carroll is a SF/PF.

The Nets really don't adhere to traditional positions that much. Per Kenny they are classified as:

Ball handlers = Russell, Dinwiddie, LeVert, Napier

Wings: Crabble, Harris, Carroll, Kurucs, Graham

Bigs: Allen, Davis, Dudley, RHJ

So when we go small (Napier, Russell, Harris, Carroll, RHJ) he’s the 4. In certain lineups he plays the 4 which is once in a while. But when it’s (Napier, Carroll, Crabbe, RHJ, Davis) he’s the 2.

[Prokorov]

He’s our back up 2 guard lol what are you talking about? Yes I’m aware that he’s played the 4 at times but he’s primarily the 2 guard. Crabbe plays the 3. RHJ and Rodi play the 4.

Carroll is a SF/PF.

So what position does Crabbe play when he’s out there? Crabbe is our 3. Of course in certain small ball lineups they’ve had Carroll at the 3/4. But he’s a 2.

Crabbe spends time at SG when we run with 1 ball handler (When both Russell and Levert are on the bench) or as the SF when we have 2 ball handlers on the floor (Napier and levert or russel)

[NetsJets]

Carroll is a SF/PF.

So what position does Crabbe play when he’s out there? Crabbe is our 3. Of course in certain small ball lineups they’ve had Carroll at the 3/4. But he’s a 2.

Crabbe spends time at SG when we run with 1 ball handler (When both Russell and Levert are on the bench) or as the SF when we have 2 ball handlers on the floor (Napier and levert or russel)

Cool so when the lineup is Napier, Carroll, Crabbe, RHJ/Rodi, Davis. What position is Carroll playing?

[Prokorov]

So what position does Crabbe play when he’s out there? Crabbe is our 3. Of course in certain small ball lineups they’ve had Carroll at the 3/4. But he’s a 2.

Crabbe spends time at SG when we run with 1 ball handler (When both Russell and Levert are on the bench) or as the SF when we have 2 ball handlers on the floor (Napier and levert or russel)

Cool so when the lineup is Napier, Carroll, Crabbe, RHJ/Rodi, Davis. What position is Carroll playing?

Forward

[TheNetsFan]

Crabbe spends time at SG when we run with 1 ball handler (When both Russell and Levert are on the bench) or as the SF when we have 2 ball handlers on the floor (Napier and levert or russel)

Cool so when the lineup is Napier, Carroll, Crabbe, RHJ/Rodi, Davis. What position is Carroll playing?

Forward

SF if it's RHJ. Probably PF if it's Rodi.