Home Opener: Timberwolves vs Nets | Wednesday, 10/23/19 | 7:30pm EST

[MGrand15]

For the select few that are saying Musa shouldn't be a part of the rotation with the second unit, my question to you is why? KD is out all year and the Nets are not a title contender this year with the current lineup/rotation. Musa is a 20 year old with a lot of tools that could be a big part of your core over the next 2-3 years with Irving, Levert, and KD. What do the Nets get out of benching him in favor of guys like Temple and Nawaba, heck even Rodi? You have to allow the kid to grow, get comfortable, and gain confidence at some point. This is the perfect year to do so before next year when the Nets should be considered a title contender.

I'm all for Musa getting a chance in the rotation but to be fair - David Nwaba is only 26-27 with barely 3 years of experience. I wouldn't say he has a high ceiling but he does have the potential to be a good roleplayer on a championship team if he could turn into a solid shooter. Toronto was filled with guys like that. He's the same age as PJ Tucker was when he came into the league and has the same sort of body type / mentality. It's not like he's a 12 year vet with no room for improvement. Rodi's only 21 and was starting for us last year. He needs to play.

I think Musa will definitely get a chance this year so I wouldn't worry too much about it. He may have to wait for one of our wings to sit out a couple of games but he's still only 20. Still one of the youngest players in the league.

[Prokorov]

We watched different games.

Yes, our bench got destroyed. As a unit, our starters dominated the Wolves' starters. As a unit, their bench blew our bench's doors off. Allen's +/- has as much to do with being solely in the starting unit as anything he himself did, same with DJ's. You know what else DJ did? He hit both of his FT's. No one is bullying him off of his spot. He's no cure-all for our woes, but I have maintained since we signed him that he is a better fit with the starting unit. It's not an indictment of JA, but I knew this would happen if he remained the starter.

We did watch different games... you have this impression of allen getting bullied for tons of points down low and abused for rebounds while being an overall negative and a concern starting moving forward.

None. of. that. is. accurate.

Towns had 36 points:

-21 points came on threes.
- 8 points came on 2 point field goals
-7 points on free throws

I have league pass and rewatched it again, here is every basket,broken down, in order:

1) Towns three off the dribble (allen gaurding)
2) Towns three off the catch (Jordan gaurding, allen on bench)
3) Towns three off the catch (Jordan gaurding, allen on bench)
4) Towns offensive rebound + Putback. (allen gaurding, helping on graham on a fast break, no contact on this play)
5) Towns three off the catch (Allen Gaurding)
6) Towns post up hook shot (Allen gaurding)
7) Towns hook shot of pick and roll (Allen gaurding)
8) Towns driving layup (Jordan gaurding)
9) Towns pick and pop three (allen gaurding)
10) Towns three off the dribble, heavily contested (Allen gaurding)
11) Towns three off the catch, contested (Allen gaurding)

of the 7 free throws, 6 of them came when we were in the bonus on non-shooting fouls (1 on allen, 1 on prince, 1 on Jordan). the other was a shooting foul on allen on a drive.

So for all the "OMG allen is getting bullied" there were 3 players were towns even scored on him inside. 2 hook shots and 1 were he got a foul call. none of the 3 were "he got bullied down low and dunked on" and the times where towns DID try and bully him and dunk he got rejected and another block on a dunk attempt in transition. further... the nets didnt need to double nor did they. they bluffed a few times but thats it.

All your criticism amounts to: 4 points off post ups and 1 offensive rebound in transition.

Towns on post ups vs allen: 2-5, 2 shots blocked, 1 foul shooting foul drawn. 6 points on 5 attempts. thats not domination by any means



if you want to blame allen for giving up 7 threes thats a better argument although he contested 3 and heavily contested 1. if anything allen was a bigger problem on offense with the missed FTS and missing some easy one sin the first quarter

[MrDollarBills]

Allen was not getting bullied. Again, I'm baffled at all of this. Towns was killing us from downtown, in the paint Allen was getting his hands dirty. Was Allen being bullied when he blocked KAT's dunk and knocked him to the floor?

5 blocks is not the end result of someone being bullied.

Allen also outplayed Jordan. By a MILE.

[3pt_chucker]

Great post Prok. I was thinking of doing doing a breakdown but I;m just simply too busy.

Allen was not bullied at all. He held his own in the post. KAT was simply hot from deep and when that happens, there is nothing you can do except double/deny him the ball.

If you want to criticize Allen, I think he needed to be better defending the rim down the stretch against Wiggins but I think Caris also deserves some blame for that.

TBH this game came down to our horrific start to the game, where they were missing tons of easy baskets and super sloppy on defense. The bench also gave nothing.Once we locked in, 2nd half of the 2nd Q onward, we outscored the TWolves.

I think we need to wait at least 5-10 games before giving hot takes about Allen or the team as a whole.

I am worried about that all bench lineup though.

[gigantes]

Allen was not getting bullied. Again, I'm baffled at all of this. Towns was killing us from downtown, in the paint Allen was getting his hands dirty. Was Allen being bullied when he blocked KAT's dunk and knocked him to the floor?

This is a great debate IMO, regardless of any 'cafeteria-style' exponent currently going on.

[NyCeEvO]

> Do you guys want him to shoot threes?

I want him to take the wide-open shots, at least. The bunnies and the threes. This has supposedly been part of the plan since almost his rookie season, but we're still not seeing it much. (if at all?)

Because a modern center of Jarrett's build should also be able to punish you when the offensive play happens to get him open.

No "hating" here, and nothing wrong in analysing what there is to analyse right now. If us skeptics get proven wrong, then GREAT. Keep on developing Fro, because we want to see you not only be the long-term starter, but also the best player you can be.

My sentiments exactly.

The fact that he doesn't even look to shoot or attack the rim when he receives the ball at the top of the key is bewildering.

I place a ton of responsibility on the coaching staff for the lack of Jarrett's overall offensive development. It feels like they're neutering him. We're so modern in our approach to the team's offensive philosophy except for the center position. He could easily fake dribble handoffs and attack the basket or take wide open shots.

Any player who doesn't take open shots is giving their defending player the ability to sag off of, rest, and provide quicker help defense on our better offensive players. In short, it hurts the entire team that Jarrett isn't a threat outside of the paint.

Whenever Allen sets a screen outside of the paint or receives a pass, his defender can literally place their focus on other players because they don't have to worry about him doing anything. Backdoor cuts have a worse chance of being available, let alone successful, if Jarrett's man can just roam around the paint regardless of whether Jarrett is there or not.

I do not understand why Allen is only a lob and dump off guy when it's clear that he could do so much more.

[NyCeEvO]

We watched different games.

Yes, our bench got destroyed. As a unit, our starters dominated the Wolves' starters. As a unit, their bench blew our bench's doors off. Allen's +/- has as much to do with being solely in the starting unit as anything he himself did, same with DJ's. You know what else DJ did? He hit both of his FT's. No one is bullying him off of his spot. He's no cure-all for our woes, but I have maintained since we signed him that he is a better fit with the starting unit. It's not an indictment of JA, but I knew this would happen if he remained the starter.

We did watch different games... you have this impression of allen getting bullied for tons of points down low and abused for rebounds while being an overall negative and a concern starting moving forward.

None. of. that. is. accurate.

Towns had 36 points:

-21 points came on threes.
- 8 points came on 2 point field goals
-7 points on free throws

I have league pass and rewatched it again, here is every basket,broken down, in order:

1) Towns three off the dribble (allen gaurding)
2) Towns three off the catch (Jordan gaurding, allen on bench)
3) Towns three off the catch (Jordan gaurding, allen on bench)
4) Towns offensive rebound + Putback. (allen gaurding, helping on graham on a fast break, no contact on this play)
5) Towns three off the catch (Allen Gaurding)
6) Towns post up hook shot (Allen gaurding)
7) Towns hook shot of pick and roll (Allen gaurding)
8) Towns driving layup (Jordan gaurding)
9) Towns pick and pop three (allen gaurding)
10) Towns three off the dribble, heavily contested (Allen gaurding)
11) Towns three off the catch, contested (Allen gaurding)

of the 7 free throws, 6 of them came when we were in the bonus on non-shooting fouls (1 on allen, 1 on prince, 1 on Jordan). the other was a shooting foul on allen on a drive.

So for all the "OMG allen is getting bullied" there were 3 players were towns even scored on him inside. 2 hook shots and 1 were he got a foul call. none of the 3 were "he got bullied down low and dunked on" and the times where towns DID try and bully him and dunk he got rejected and another block on a dunk attempt in transition. further... the nets didnt need to double nor did they. they bluffed a few times but thats it.

All your criticism amounts to: 4 points off post ups and 1 offensive rebound in transition.

Towns on post ups vs allen: 2-5, 2 shots blocked, 1 foul shooting foul drawn. 6 points on 5 attempts. thats not domination by any means



if you want to blame allen for giving up 7 threes thats a better argument although he contested 3 and heavily contested 1. if anything allen was a bigger problem on offense with the missed FTS and missing some easy one sin the first quarter

I think people still have PTSD from the Philly playoff series lol.

Allen did not get bullied down low against MIN. He had a few blocks around the paint that NO ONE on this team (not even DJ at his age and current playing ability) is capable of doing.


IMO, the only critique of Allen that make sense isn't even about Allen himself, but about how the coaching staff uses him.

I believe he could provide so much more to the team on the offensive and defensive end.

He has a solid shooting form. I'm confident that he could develop a midrange jumper and 3pt shot and be a greater offensive threat if they would simply allow him to do it.

On the defensive end, Jarrett is more than quick enough to guard the ball handler and contest jumpshots should they shoot it or contest layups if they elect to drive off the pick.

No one expects or even wants him to try to become AD, Giannis, or Embiid. We just want him to take what the defense gives him on the offensive end if it's the best option and be an even bigger threat on defense, if the coaches would take the leash off of him.

[Prokorov]

Great post Prok. I was thinking of doing doing a breakdown but I;m just simply too busy.

Allen was not bullied at all. He held his own in the post. KAT was simply hot from deep and when that happens, there is nothing you can do except double/deny him the ball.

If you want to criticize Allen, I think he needed to be better defending the rim down the stretch against Wiggins but I think Caris also deserves some blame for that.

TBH this game came down to our horrific start to the game, where they were missing tons of easy baskets and super sloppy on defense. The bench also gave nothing.Once we locked in, 2nd half of the 2nd Q onward, we outscored the TWolves.

I think we need to wait at least 5-10 games before giving hot takes about Allen or the team as a whole.

I am worried about that all bench lineup though.

agree with all of that

[MrDollarBills]

And if Allen starts shooting or driving every time he's open and it doesn't yield results, or ends up causing turnovers, you guys will want him benched. Let him develop.

[NyCeEvO]

And if Allen starts shooting or driving every time he's open and it doesn't yield results, or ends up causing turnovers, you guys will want him benched. Let him develop.

Absolutely not.

Prok has probably talked about this the most on the board. You can't develop if you're not given the opportunity to implement what you have practiced. Now that we have superstars, my fear is that we won't give Allen the opportunities to make mistakes, learn from them, and improve that he should've received from Day 1.

Allen is professional NBA player. It's his 3rd season and he's rarely missed a game. Yet, he isn't showing us anything that we didn't see when he was a rookie. Sure, he's gotten better at blocking shots, but he was already a shot blocker. We have yet to see fundamental growth and an expansion of his game.

The coaching staff raved about his potential when he was drafted but we're barely seeing anything.

Allen does things many other big men can do. Yet he has physical attributes that should enable him to have the impact on the game that few can have.

Other big men have added jumpshots, even 3pt shots, after one offseason. Jarrett has had 3 training camps and two full seasons. We're not seeing much. If he can't develop or is not being developed given that much time, I have major concerns about his ceiling.

IMO, Allen should've been able to reach Clint Capela's status pretty easily and surpass it by adding a jumpshot. If he keeps playing (or being restricted to play) in the manner in which he's playing, there's a high chance he won't even reach Capela's peak. That would also mean that he shouldn't make anything close to what Capela has made.

This is a massive season for Jarrett. I want to see more. He has it in him. Take off the chain and let him work. If we don't know, we'll have wasted his potential.

[Claud]

The fro was bad in game 1, even with those 5 blocks.

He missed too many FTs and was unable to cleanly finish in the paint.
Not to mention were were outrebounded in critical moments of the game which unfortunately by default , it's the center's job to get it done a high level.

With that said, DJ isn't a productive player at this stage of his career so of course Allen is and should be the starter. The only positive DJ brings is that he's 270 and can give us a body to bang with those type of players when needed.

We can't forget Allen just turned 21 and has many years ahead of him. He's still inexperienced and underweight for his position yet at the same time has a lot of tools needed to be a top tier center for a long time in this league.

I understand we are in somewhat of win-now mode which puts a microspcope on all of our players to play at a high level consistently but we're going to have to go through bad games by our young players as they develop, and that includes the Fro.

One of my favorite characteristics of Allen is that he always finds a way to bounce back and remind us of why most of us are high on his potential. We need to stay patient.

[ecuhus1981]

And if Allen starts shooting or driving every time he's open and it doesn't yield results, or ends up causing turnovers, you guys will want him benched. Let him develop.

Absolutely not.

Prok has probably talked about this the most on the board. You can't develop if you're not given the opportunity to implement what you have practiced. Now that we have superstars, my fear is that we won't give Allen the opportunities to make mistakes, learn from them, and improve that he should've received from Day 1.

Allen is professional NBA player. It's his 3rd season and he's rarely missed a game. Yet, he isn't showing us anything that we didn't see when he was a rookie. Sure, he's gotten better at blocking shots, but he was already a shot blocker. We have yet to see fundamental growth and an expansion of his game.

The coaching staff raved about his potential when he was drafted but we're barely seeing anything.

Allen does things many other big men can do. Yet he has physical attributes that should enable him to have the impact on the game that few can have.

Other big men have added jumpshots, even 3pt shots, after one offseason. Jarrett has had 3 training camps and two full seasons. We're not seeing much. If he can't develop or is not being developed given that much time, I have major concerns about his ceiling.

IMO, Allen should've been able to reach Clint Capela's status pretty easily and surpass it by adding a jumpshot. If he keeps playing (or being restricted to play) in the manner in which he's playing, there's a high chance he won't even reach Capela's peak. That would also mean that he shouldn't make anything close to what Capela has made.

This is a massive season for Jarrett. I want to see more. He has it in him. Take off the chain and let him work. If we don't know, we'll have wasted his potential.

100% on-board with this.

As a midwest dude, I saw plenty of Jarrett Allen in college. I was pleasantly surprised at how useful he was as a rookie. However, he seems to have plateaued in his level of play, and over the last 2 years the rest of the league's C has gotten quicker, stronger and more skilled. Our 21yo should be outpacing them in terms of skill acquisition and trajectory, but the opposite is happening. This is no small sample size, and you have to synthesize the data he's providing, and look at his long-term professional future.

Also, I do not lay any of the failure of JA to reach the potential we perceived in him on the coaching staff. We have some of the best talent developers in the league, and Allen has had more opportunities in more ideal circumstances for growth than many of his peers. The fact that his peers have taken bigger leaps in development in less conducive environments, should tell you all you need to know. Perhaps Jarrett is just not assertive enough, not hungry enough, not daring or d!ckish enough to demand greatness. As Kenny noted of Caris, "some players want to be great, others need to be great". I don't see that need in Jarrett, at all.

It's time to take off the training wheels: it's not his environment, it's not his competition, it's not his S&C team, not his coaching staff. It's him. He's just himself, and that's OK. He can still contribute. The longer we live in denial of accumulating information around us, the tougher it will be to pivot (pun intended) from planning around him.

[Paradise]

And if Allen starts shooting or driving every time he's open and it doesn't yield results, or ends up causing turnovers, you guys will want him benched. Let him develop.

Absolutely not.

Prok has probably talked about this the most on the board. You can't develop if you're not given the opportunity to implement what you have practiced. Now that we have superstars, my fear is that we won't give Allen the opportunities to make mistakes, learn from them, and improve that he should've received from Day 1.

Allen is professional NBA player. It's his 3rd season and he's rarely missed a game. Yet, he isn't showing us anything that we didn't see when he was a rookie. Sure, he's gotten better at blocking shots, but he was already a shot blocker. We have yet to see fundamental growth and an expansion of his game.

The coaching staff raved about his potential when he was drafted but we're barely seeing anything.

Allen does things many other big men can do. Yet he has physical attributes that should enable him to have the impact on the game that few can have.

Other big men have added jumpshots, even 3pt shots, after one offseason. Jarrett has had 3 training camps and two full seasons. We're not seeing much. If he can't develop or is not being developed given that much time, I have major concerns about his ceiling.

IMO, Allen should've been able to reach Clint Capela's status pretty easily and surpass it by adding a jumpshot. If he keeps playing (or being restricted to play) in the manner in which he's playing, there's a high chance he won't even reach Capela's peak. That would also mean that he shouldn't make anything close to what Capela has made.

This is a massive season for Jarrett. I want to see more. He has it in him. Take off the chain and let him work. If we don't know, we'll have wasted his potential.

I think it’s on Jarrett, also. He has to also try to be more aggressive. I think he will be given that freedom because if he wasn’t, Jordan should’ve seen minutes in OT. If not, all of the end of the 4th.

Ultimately, this game felt like Jarrett Allen in Game 4 vs Philly. Some of those plays he was straight up bullied on in that series and he was destroyed on the perimeter by Towns and also inside which doesn’t bode well for when he sees guys like Robinson, Embiid, Gasol etc. Yes, he added weight but Wiggins went straight at Allen multiple possessions to give Minnesota a lead and those were plays that Allen is expected to contest as a starter on a contender.

So, even if Jarrett may be given a short leash offensively, he hasn’t exactly shown much in key moments as a rim protector despite the 5 blocks or in PNR D. Wiggins was pure trash until he kept driving straight at Allen in Overtime and nobody else can honestly be blamed for Wiggins scoring repeatedly in the paint but the last line of defense. If Allen cannot defend the PnR well or bigs against the Knicks, it really doesn’t matter what his offensive potential could be if he cannot be a sound paint defender after adding on 15 pounds. He didn’t look good vs Gasol and now, he didn’t look good vs Towns. No coincidence there.

Seems like Allen’s size and aggression will determine how impactful he can be and it’s no secret, his aggression was a question mark in the draft.

[Paradise]

And if Allen starts shooting or driving every time he's open and it doesn't yield results, or ends up causing turnovers, you guys will want him benched. Let him develop.

Like I said, it’s also on him to want that improvement to happen sooner than later. He knows he’s in competition but his overall perimeter defense needs to improve. You can’t see a jump from him in any other category beyond a few more post ups and hook shots. I’d like to see him be more Gobert-like defensively.

Let’s not pretend he didn’t get destroyed on the perimeter by Embiid at times or other bigs last season. He needs to show some next tier development beyond blocking shots.

You all know how much I’m a fan of the Afro Samurai but he looked like a sophomore against Towns. He also looked that way against Gasol as well.

If Jarrett Allen cannot contain JV or Jaren Jackson Jr on Sunday, I hope we can really have that discussion that’s been brewing here because some of these guys need to develop but they also need to understand but nobody is waiting anymore.

[NyCeEvO]

Yeah, besides being a bit tentative and missing frows, he was really solid.

Jordan looks very meh for a guy signed for 4 years though. Only 1 game though, it's a long season.

It's concerning that we needed 50 from Kyrie just to be in the game at all, at home vs. a very medicore squad though. They have pretty much nothing outside KAT. He's a beast though.

Defense was an issue, but from watching it seems the Wolves made a concerted effort to take away threes and layups...even to the point that Spencer had an open lane...but decided to try awful lobs instead.

KAT and Wiggins absolutely torched us.

Sent from my SM-G925T using RealGM mobile app

Nah, Wiggins scored 21 points on 10-27 shooting. He wasn't torching us. KAT on the other hand....

I knew he attempted a lot of shots, but I didn't think he had 27 shots lol. Wow...

[MrDollarBills]

And if Allen starts shooting or driving every time he's open and it doesn't yield results, or ends up causing turnovers, you guys will want him benched. Let him develop.

Like I said, it’s also on him to want that improvement to happen sooner than later. He knows he’s in competition but his overall perimeter defense needs to improve. You can’t see a jump from him in any other category beyond a few more post ups and hook shots. I’d like to see him be more Gobert-like defensively.

Let’s not pretend he didn’t get destroyed on the perimeter by Embiid at times or other bigs last season. He needs to show some next tier development beyond blocking shots.

You all know how much I’m a fan of the Afro Samurai but he looked like a sophomore against Towns. He also looked that way against Gasol as well.

If Jarrett Allen cannot contain JV or Jaren Jackson Jr on Sunday, I hope we can really have that discussion that’s been brewing here because some of these guys need to develop but they also need to understand but nobody is waiting anymore.

You act like what Towns did is something rare. He does that to everyone else as well Towns is a bad match up for 99% of the league at Center due to his skillset. It wasn't like he was getting bullied on the inside. Most of Town's scoring was from downtown.

[MrDollarBills]

And if Allen starts shooting or driving every time he's open and it doesn't yield results, or ends up causing turnovers, you guys will want him benched. Let him develop.

Absolutely not.

Prok has probably talked about this the most on the board. You can't develop if you're not given the opportunity to implement what you have practiced. Now that we have superstars, my fear is that we won't give Allen the opportunities to make mistakes, learn from them, and improve that he should've received from Day 1.

Allen is professional NBA player. It's his 3rd season and he's rarely missed a game. Yet, he isn't showing us anything that we didn't see when he was a rookie. Sure, he's gotten better at blocking shots, but he was already a shot blocker. We have yet to see fundamental growth and an expansion of his game.

The coaching staff raved about his potential when he was drafted but we're barely seeing anything.

Allen does things many other big men can do. Yet he has physical attributes that should enable him to have the impact on the game that few can have.

Other big men have added jumpshots, even 3pt shots, after one offseason. Jarrett has had 3 training camps and two full seasons. We're not seeing much. If he can't develop or is not being developed given that much time, I have major concerns about his ceiling.

IMO, Allen should've been able to reach Clint Capela's status pretty easily and surpass it by adding a jumpshot. If he keeps playing (or being restricted to play) in the manner in which he's playing, there's a high chance he won't even reach Capela's peak. That would also mean that he shouldn't make anything close to what Capela has made.

This is a massive season for Jarrett. I want to see more. He has it in him. Take off the chain and let him work. If we don't know, we'll have wasted his potential.

I think it’s on Jarrett, also. He has to also try to be more aggressive. I think he will be given that freedom because if he wasn’t, Jordan should’ve seen minutes in OT. If not, all of the end of the 4th.

Ultimately, this game felt like Jarrett Allen in Game 4 vs Philly. Some of those plays he was straight up bullied on in that series and he was destroyed on the perimeter by Towns and also inside which doesn’t bode well for when he sees guys like Robinson, Embiid, Gasol etc. Yes, he added weight but Wiggins went straight at Allen multiple possessions to give Minnesota a lead and those were plays that Allen is expected to contest as a starter on a contender.

So, even if Jarrett may be given a short leash offensively, he hasn’t exactly shown much in key moments as a rim protector despite the 5 blocks or in PNR D. Wiggins was pure trash until he kept driving straight at Allen in Overtime and nobody else can honestly be blamed for Wiggins scoring repeatedly in the paint but the last line of defense. If Allen cannot defend the PnR well or bigs against the Knicks, it really doesn’t matter what his offensive potential could be if he cannot be a sound paint defender after adding on 15 pounds. He didn’t look good vs Gasol and now, he didn’t look good vs Towns. No coincidence there.

Seems like Allen’s size and aggression will determine how impactful he can be and it’s no secret, his aggression was a question mark in the draft.

Who was defending Andrew Wiggins in overtime? I know the answer, but since that player is treated like he's an all star and above reproach, no one will call him out on it, but will heap the blame onto Allen.

Every season on this board yall pick a whipping boy to pile onto and I guess now it's Jarrett's turn. The season isn't even a week old and yall are giving up on him. It's sad honestly.

[NyCeEvO]

Absolutely not.

Prok has probably talked about this the most on the board. You can't develop if you're not given the opportunity to implement what you have practiced. Now that we have superstars, my fear is that we won't give Allen the opportunities to make mistakes, learn from them, and improve that he should've received from Day 1.

Allen is professional NBA player. It's his 3rd season and he's rarely missed a game. Yet, he isn't showing us anything that we didn't see when he was a rookie. Sure, he's gotten better at blocking shots, but he was already a shot blocker. We have yet to see fundamental growth and an expansion of his game.

The coaching staff raved about his potential when he was drafted but we're barely seeing anything.

Allen does things many other big men can do. Yet he has physical attributes that should enable him to have the impact on the game that few can have.

Other big men have added jumpshots, even 3pt shots, after one offseason. Jarrett has had 3 training camps and two full seasons. We're not seeing much. If he can't develop or is not being developed given that much time, I have major concerns about his ceiling.

IMO, Allen should've been able to reach Clint Capela's status pretty easily and surpass it by adding a jumpshot. If he keeps playing (or being restricted to play) in the manner in which he's playing, there's a high chance he won't even reach Capela's peak. That would also mean that he shouldn't make anything close to what Capela has made.

This is a massive season for Jarrett. I want to see more. He has it in him. Take off the chain and let him work. If we don't know, we'll have wasted his potential.

I think it’s on Jarrett, also. He has to also try to be more aggressive. I think he will be given that freedom because if he wasn’t, Jordan should’ve seen minutes in OT. If not, all of the end of the 4th.

Ultimately, this game felt like Jarrett Allen in Game 4 vs Philly. Some of those plays he was straight up bullied on in that series and he was destroyed on the perimeter by Towns and also inside which doesn’t bode well for when he sees guys like Robinson, Embiid, Gasol etc. Yes, he added weight but Wiggins went straight at Allen multiple possessions to give Minnesota a lead and those were plays that Allen is expected to contest as a starter on a contender.

So, even if Jarrett may be given a short leash offensively, he hasn’t exactly shown much in key moments as a rim protector despite the 5 blocks or in PNR D. Wiggins was pure trash until he kept driving straight at Allen in Overtime and nobody else can honestly be blamed for Wiggins scoring repeatedly in the paint but the last line of defense. If Allen cannot defend the PnR well or bigs against the Knicks, it really doesn’t matter what his offensive potential could be if he cannot be a sound paint defender after adding on 15 pounds. He didn’t look good vs Gasol and now, he didn’t look good vs Towns. No coincidence there.

Seems like Allen’s size and aggression will determine how impactful he can be and it’s no secret, his aggression was a question mark in the draft.

Who was defending Andrew Wiggins in overtime? I know the answer, but since that player is treated like he's an all star and above reproach, no one will call him out on it, but will heap the blame onto Allen.

Every season on this board yall pick a whipping boy to pile onto and I guess now it's Jarrett's turn. The season isn't even a week old and yall are giving up on him. It's sad honestly.

Your statement is not only a strawman argument, it also supports "whataboutist" claims.

1) It's a straw man argument because no one is arguing that Levert has been playing well.

Spoiler:

In fact, I personally have been underwhelmed with his play thus far and have already wrote a post analyzing why I think he shot is still broken. The prevailing thought on this board is that Levert needs a consistent shot in order to become a star. If he doesn't develop one, then we should have a discussion about what the Nets should do about Levert or the rest of the team. (In my opinion, since we have KD waiting in the wings, Levert's ability to shoot won't be as critical to our success. The question after that would be "Does Levert do enough other things to warrant his salary and place on the team.

I do not think the preference to talk about Allen's weaknesses is agenda driven. I just think Allen's struggles are very obvious to see and point out; therefore, we talk about them and give our opinions on them.

There's nothing wrong with talking about a player's weaknesses. These are the type of topics we permit and don't mind having on the board.

2) The whataboutist claim: Everyone's talking about Allen, but what about Levert?

Your suggestion of an agenda or favoritism towards Levert is unfounded and unwarranted. We can handle talking about the problems of more than one player at one time and not automatically assume that the reason why there's more discussion about one player over others is because people get joy out of critiquing Allen for whatever reason and don't want to talk about Levert.

It's impossible to talk about every player in game threads. If certain things stand out to us more than others, it makes sense that we'll focus more on that than other subjects. But that doesn't mean that that problem is the only thing we notice or think is problematic.

You've done this more than once. Instead of assuming that everyone is overly biased and willfully ignoring other problems just to talk about one, we can and should address the fact that that there can be (and are) multiple problems, which each warrant discussion.

The whataboutism that plagues this board not only derails honest discussion, it needlessly drives division. That's the only thing that is sad about this situation. We all can do better.

[MrDollarBills]

I think it’s on Jarrett, also. He has to also try to be more aggressive. I think he will be given that freedom because if he wasn’t, Jordan should’ve seen minutes in OT. If not, all of the end of the 4th.

Ultimately, this game felt like Jarrett Allen in Game 4 vs Philly. Some of those plays he was straight up bullied on in that series and he was destroyed on the perimeter by Towns and also inside which doesn’t bode well for when he sees guys like Robinson, Embiid, Gasol etc. Yes, he added weight but Wiggins went straight at Allen multiple possessions to give Minnesota a lead and those were plays that Allen is expected to contest as a starter on a contender.

So, even if Jarrett may be given a short leash offensively, he hasn’t exactly shown much in key moments as a rim protector despite the 5 blocks or in PNR D. Wiggins was pure trash until he kept driving straight at Allen in Overtime and nobody else can honestly be blamed for Wiggins scoring repeatedly in the paint but the last line of defense. If Allen cannot defend the PnR well or bigs against the Knicks, it really doesn’t matter what his offensive potential could be if he cannot be a sound paint defender after adding on 15 pounds. He didn’t look good vs Gasol and now, he didn’t look good vs Towns. No coincidence there.

Seems like Allen’s size and aggression will determine how impactful he can be and it’s no secret, his aggression was a question mark in the draft.

Who was defending Andrew Wiggins in overtime? I know the answer, but since that player is treated like he's an all star and above reproach, no one will call him out on it, but will heap the blame onto Allen.

Every season on this board yall pick a whipping boy to pile onto and I guess now it's Jarrett's turn. The season isn't even a week old and yall are giving up on him. It's sad honestly.

Your statement is not only a strawman argument, it also supports "whataboutist" claims.

1) It's a straw man argument because no one is arguing that Levert has been playing well.

Spoiler:

In fact, I personally have been underwhelmed with his play thus far and have already wrote a post analyzing why I think he shot is still broken. The prevailing thought on this board is that Levert needs a consistent shot in order to become a star. If he doesn't develop one, then we should have a discussion about what the Nets should do about Levert or the rest of the team. (In my opinion, since we have KD waiting in the wings, Levert's ability to shoot won't be as critical to our success. The question after that would be "Does Levert do enough other things to warrant his salary and place on the team.

I do not think the preference to talk about Allen's weaknesses is agenda driven. I just think Allen's struggles are very obvious to see and point out; therefore, we talk about them and give our opinions on them.

There's nothing wrong with talking about a player's weaknesses. These are the type of topics we permit and don't mind having on the board.

2) The whataboutist claim: Everyone's talking about Allen, but what about Levert?

Your suggestion of an agenda or favoritism towards Levert is unfounded and unwarranted. We can handle talking about the problems of more than one player at one time and not automatically assume that the reason why there's more discussion about one player over others is because people get joy out of critiquing Allen for whatever reason and don't want to talk about Levert.

It's impossible to talk about every player in game threads. If certain things stand out to us more than others, it makes sense that we'll focus more on that than other subjects. But that doesn't mean that that problem is the only thing we notice or think is problematic.

You've done this more than once. Instead of assuming that everyone is overly biased and willfully ignoring other problems just to talk about one, we can and should address the fact that that there can be (and are) multiple problems, which each warrant discussion.

The whataboutism that plagues this board not only derails honest discussion, it needlessly drives division. That's the only thing that is sad about this situation. We all can do better.

Paradise blamed Allen for Wiggins scoring, how am I not supposed to bring up LeVert in that situation? He was the one guarding the dude.

That's flat out ridiculous. I'm not engaging in whataboutism I'm pointing out to another poster that heaping the blame on one player for a guy scoring isn't telling the entire story, and it just plays into this bogus narrative about Allen getting bullied in this game, which is a flat out lie.

It is agenda driven. There's constructive criticism, which we have all given, and there's this overzealousness to single out one player. It's done every single season on this forum, from RHJ, to Russell, now Allen. It never fails.

You have posters on here literally making up **** about Allen that had to be refuted by Prok having to break down the tape possession by possession to call out this falsehood that was being pushed, yet you're saying -I'm the one- derailing honest discussion? Excuse my french, but that is complete bull **** dude.

We can do better, and it starts with actually having honest discussions instead of people throwing out lies because they have it out for a particular player.

[NyCeEvO]

Who was defending Andrew Wiggins in overtime? I know the answer, but since that player is treated like he's an all star and above reproach, no one will call him out on it, but will heap the blame onto Allen.

Every season on this board yall pick a whipping boy to pile onto and I guess now it's Jarrett's turn. The season isn't even a week old and yall are giving up on him. It's sad honestly.

Your statement is not only a strawman argument, it also supports "whataboutist" claims.

1) It's a straw man argument because no one is arguing that Levert has been playing well.

Spoiler:

In fact, I personally have been underwhelmed with his play thus far and have already wrote a post analyzing why I think he shot is still broken. The prevailing thought on this board is that Levert needs a consistent shot in order to become a star. If he doesn't develop one, then we should have a discussion about what the Nets should do about Levert or the rest of the team. (In my opinion, since we have KD waiting in the wings, Levert's ability to shoot won't be as critical to our success. The question after that would be "Does Levert do enough other things to warrant his salary and place on the team.

I do not think the preference to talk about Allen's weaknesses is agenda driven. I just think Allen's struggles are very obvious to see and point out; therefore, we talk about them and give our opinions on them.

There's nothing wrong with talking about a player's weaknesses. These are the type of topics we permit and don't mind having on the board.

2) The whataboutist claim: Everyone's talking about Allen, but what about Levert?

Your suggestion of an agenda or favoritism towards Levert is unfounded and unwarranted. We can handle talking about the problems of more than one player at one time and not automatically assume that the reason why there's more discussion about one player over others is because people get joy out of critiquing Allen for whatever reason and don't want to talk about Levert.

It's impossible to talk about every player in game threads. If certain things stand out to us more than others, it makes sense that we'll focus more on that than other subjects. But that doesn't mean that that problem is the only thing we notice or think is problematic.

You've done this more than once. Instead of assuming that everyone is overly biased and willfully ignoring other problems just to talk about one, we can and should address the fact that that there can be (and are) multiple problems, which each warrant discussion.

The whataboutism that plagues this board not only derails honest discussion, it needlessly drives division. That's the only thing that is sad about this situation. We all can do better.

Paradise blamed Allen for Wiggins scoring, how am I not supposed to bring up LeVert in that situation? He was the one guarding the dude.

1. I And-1'd Prok's post and said in a separate post that Allen wasn't bodied that game. So in general, I disagree that with anyone who made that claim.

Yet despite that I still critiqued Allen because while I didn't see him getting bodied in the post, I saw other aspects of the game that I thought he could've performed much better.


Now to address what you just said....You took his statement out of context to assume that he blamed Allen for the act of scoring. Re-read what he said about Allen in context:

Ultimately, this game felt like Jarrett Allen in Game 4 vs Philly. Some of those plays he was straight up bullied on in that series and he was destroyed on the perimeter by Towns and also inside which doesn’t bode well for when he sees guys like Robinson, Embiid, Gasol etc. Yes, he added weight but Wiggins went straight at Allen multiple possessions to give Minnesota a lead and those were plays that Allen is expected to contest as a starter on a contender.

The sentence that you pulled out is embedded within the context of Paradise saying "Allen was being bullied" and it was reminiscent of the PHI playoff series (which, again, I disagree with).

He did not say that Allen was guarding Levert, as in he was assigned to his man.

He intimated that when Wiggins attacked the basket and Allen was the defender he needed to go through/over in order to score at those times.

Now, we can talk about whether it's reasonable to expect Allen to better defend those shots are not, if those instances actually happened. I'd much prefer to have us put timestamps or identify plays in context when they happen so that we don't have claims back and forth about whether something happened or not.



That's flat out ridiculous. I'm not engaging in whataboutism I'm pointing out to another poster that heaping the blame on one player for a guy scoring isn't telling the entire story, and it just plays into this bogus narrative about Allen getting bullied in this game, which is a flat out lie.

Who was defending Andrew Wiggins in overtime? I know the answer, but since that player is treated like he's an all star and above reproach, no one will call him out on it, but will heap the blame onto Allen.

Again, I agree that Allen wasn't bullied. But this statement from you is doing more than saying that 1) Paradising is lying and/or 2) Allen wasn't getting bodied.

You say that the ONLY reason why Allen is getting the blame is because everyone wants to protect Levert. Can you provide proof for your claims? If you're going to ask everyone to prove everything they say, you need to do commit to the same practice yourself.

Are you omniscient?

Can you read everyone's mind and determine with certainty that the only reason why more posts are written about Allen than Levert is because everyone wants to protect Levert?

Should we not say anything about one player unless we can say something about every player?

You're making a ton of assumptions about the inner workings of everyone's mind and have little to no concrete evidence to back it up, just loosely connected points.

It is agenda driven. There's constructive criticism, which we have all given, and there's this overzealousness to single out one player. It's done every single season on this forum, from RHJ, to Russell, now Allen. It never fails.

You have posters on here literally making up **** about Allen that had to be refuted by Prok having to break down the tape possession by possession to call out this falsehood that was being pushed, yet you're saying -I'm the one- derailing honest discussion? Excuse my french, but that is complete bull **** dude.

We can do better, and it starts with actually having honest discussions instead of people throwing out lies because they have it out for a particular player.

It's perfectly fine to disagree with someone about Allen.

But when you insinuate a reason for why Allen is being critiqued with no proof and charging people as conspirators, that's adding something to the discussion that has nothing to do with the game itself (i.e. a derailing argument).

If you had concrete proof for your theory, fine. Without proof, that's it's a conspiratorial ad hominem attack that you're not providing any evidence for.


Levert has been my favorite player since he was drafted, but I'd like to think I've always been honest in my evaluation of him. That's why already in the first two games, I've critiqued him more than I ever have before. It's his 4th season. Yeah, he's missed a lot of time, but he needs to do better as well.

We can discuss both players without assuming (on very weak evidence) that favoritism towards one player is clouding our ability to accurately evaluate another.